Warriors fan meets with Robert Rowell, very interesting thoughts

Thanks for an interesting article.

So for ticket price... Just because we are in a big market, they should jack up the price regardless of the performance? Pretty blunt (understandable in business sense though) statement IMO.

For salary mess... Er, Dunleavy is quite tradable? Well, I mean, if we are talking about garbage to garbage, I guess he CAN be traded. But, other than that, I don't see how Dunleavy's contract can be 'quite tradable'. Other than that and Murphy being underpaid (I think he is slightly overpaid), he is probably close to the truth. But the biggest problem is not how some contracts are overpaid, but how we can't win despite those 6 gigantic cotracts in our hands for long time.

Wonder exactly what happened between Muss and Mullin, because there still is a bad blood between them, and the way Rowell responded, it seemed like a personal issue.

Nice to see Warriors players in Oakland working...

 

It goes without saying that Mullin is responsible for good/bad of this franchise. When Mullin stepped in, he was in a situation, where every GM would dream of; zero long term contract, young players like Richardson, Pietrus, Dunleavy, Murphy, Dampier, and Foyle, extra draft picks, and die hard fans who saw him as a savior.

In two years...

Good

`Excellent eyes for drafting players. Biedrins, Diogu, Ellis and Taft are all solid choices.

`Knows how to ask money from the owner. Granted that NBA payroll increased a lot in 10 years, but GMs like Twerdzik, PJ or Saint never was able to ask Cohan to spend beyond 50 mils. In contrast, Mullin already committed above 60 mils, and possibly more.

`Made fairly good trades. B. Davis for Speedy and D. Davis, Najera trade or Dampier trade.

Bad.

`No sign of recognizing caproom/luxury tax what-so-ever. There is no good reason to resign any of our rookie players in 3 years, since they are not franchise players. Granted that we might have to pay Richardson 14 mils instead of 12 mils. But, we could have lowered Murphy's contract, and we could have significantly lowered or get rid of Dunleavy, have we not signed his gigantic contract.

`Get easily bullied by other agents.

`Too much personal feeling when making decisions. I don't know this still is the case. But, in his first year, he axed Muss for seemingly personal reasons, despite what he had done in two years. Also, when Dampier opted out from the contract, Mullin was angry and decided to go with Foyle, despite Dampier was clearly better center, and we are currently looking for Dampier like center now. Also, Mullin never hide his love toward Dunleavy starting from the draft, and that led to Dunleavy's early 5 years/45 mils contract.

`No clue on how to build a winning franchise: The biggest criticism on Saint was that he didn't know how to build a winning franchise. And, many people said Mullin will build a winning franchise because of his HOF playing days. So far, Mullin did worse job than Saint. Fisher as a starting PG, Foyle over Dampier, Dunleavy over Jamison are one of few questionable moves even back then, and it looks really bad now. I find it bit funny how Rowell said they were more than happy to see Saint being fired.

Good news is that Mullin seems to improve as time goes on, since his later moves were better than his first offseason moves. But then, his first moves were NY-like, so it's not saying much.

For Fisher, I really don't mind that we didn't make a deal at the deadline, because there always a market for 13.3 pgs / 4.3 ast / 6 mils per year with multiple championship rings. Of course, what Fisher will bring to the team is quite different than what his resume indicates, but not many GMs actually watch the whole gametapes anyway. I think we can actually cash in something good for Fisher, if Mullin wants it (that's big if though)...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">

`Knows how to ask money from the owner. Granted that NBA payroll increased a lot in 10 years, but GMs like Twerdzik, PJ or Saint never was able to ask Cohan to spend beyond 50 mils. In contrast, Mullin already committed above 60 mils, and possibly more.
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There is a reason why Gilbert Arenas isn't with the team anymore. It is because the Warriors/St. Jean gave bad contracts as well. Remember Danny Fortson, Chris Mills(from Spree deal), Jason Caffey, Antawn Jamison, Erick Dampier? I am not sure if the other GM's didn't get quite as much funding as Mullin is getting. The funding Mullin will get is the big question though with all of these players on rookie contracts and every agent in the league, especially on the Warriors squad, knowing that the Warriors will spend money on the players they want.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "Kwan1031":</div><div class="quote_post"> Bad.

`No sign of recognizing caproom/luxury tax what-so-ever. There is no good reason to resign any of our rookie players in 3 years, since they are not franchise players. Granted that we might have to pay Richardson 14 mils instead of 12 mils. But, we could have lowered Murphy's contract, and we could have significantly lowered or get rid of Dunleavy, have we not signed his gigantic contract.</div>

I believe Murphy's contract is very fair compared to other starting PF's in the league who are not in their rookie deals. Dunleavy is a bad signing, and so is Foyle. Fisher's deal was bad until he performed decently at least in the statbook this season. His contract is still very long though.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "Kwan1031":</div><div class="quote_post">
`Too much personal feeling when making decisions. I don't know this still is the case. But, in his first year, he axed Muss for seemingly personal reasons, despite what he had done in two years. Also, when Dampier opted out from the contract, Mullin was angry and decided to go with Foyle, despite Dampier was clearly better center, and we are currently looking for Dampier like center now. Also, Mullin never hide his love toward Dunleavy starting from the draft, and that led to Dunleavy's early 5 years/45 mils contract.

`No clue on how to build a winning franchise: The biggest criticism on Saint was that he didn't know how to build a winning franchise. And, many people said Mullin will build a winning franchise because of his HOF playing days. So far, Mullin did worse job than Saint. Fisher as a starting PG, Foyle over Dampier, Dunleavy over Jamison are one of few questionable moves even back then, and it looks really bad now. I find it bit funny how Rowell said they were more than happy to see Saint being fired.</div>

Personal feelings are how the Warriors ownership sell tickets. First it was showing big(unneccesary) money to Jamison to show that this team is willing to spend money, and to tell the Warriors fans almost in a facad after things have transpired that this ownership is in it to win basketball games and keep their players. Then it was signing Danny Fortson to a big contract to further show the ownership's "dedication" to winning. The biggest of the personal feelings was made by the re-addition of Chris Mullin to the organization. This got everyone's expectations high, even after a dumb move of firing Musselman. By this point everyone was one Rowell's bandwagon of stating that Muss wasn't good for the team and was underachieving.

As it's been said, the main constant over the years of losing has been Chris Cohan and his ownership crew. Coaches have come and gone(often to more successful organizations and show their actual coaching abilities), and so have GM's and presidents of personale.

The best way to get into the winning way is to bring in guys who actually win, such as when they brought in Musselman, and stay away from bringing in past Warriors just to try to sell tickets, and create "optimism."

The Warriors are masters at not knowing what they are doing and providing terrible leadership. A prime example of this is the treatment of Troy Murphy. Over the past few offseasons the Warriors tried to get Murphy to become a three point shooter. Then what happens this year? They say, "Murphy, well, remember all of those three pointers we told you to practice over the last few summers? Well forget about all of that, you are going to be this team's center now." I could only imagine Murphy's face being told this...I believe this is where the frustration with Murphy by the fans lie; also the frustration between Murphy and coach/offensive system lies.

 

I read the same blog and I feel the same regarding warriors front office is full of suits, pr stunts, and future planners that are hired that don't know how to build a winning franchise. They've got no long term vision, only short term instincts.

BTW, only frustration I have with Murphy is that he stinks on defense and this franchise will get nowhere trying to be all offense without prolific scorers or balanced ways of attacking and setting the tempo. If he was a bench guy that would be great because he looks to score, he rebounds, and he'll drive or post up every so often to keep slower or smaller defenders honest. But as starter, no way he sets the tone on defense. He's so much of a liability that he can't be trusted to protect the hoop, defend some of his own matchups in the post or defend in transition. Plus, he doesn't pass much, but then again his teammates kind of suck.

What this franchise really needs is a strong foundation on all levels to go with profitability. I think no matter how well this franchise plays, the suits will always know they can sell tickets and not lose money. We've already proved this.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post">There is a reason why Gilbert Arenas isn't with the team anymore. It is because the Warriors/St. Jean gave bad contracts as well. Remember Danny Fortson, Chris Mills(from Spree deal), Jason Caffey, Antawn Jamison, Erick Dampier? I am not sure if the other GM's didn't get quite as much funding as Mullin is getting. The funding Mullin will get is the big question though with all of these players on rookie contracts and every agent in the league, especially on the Warriors squad, knowing that the Warriors will spend money on the players they want.



I believe Murphy's contract is very fair compared to other starting PF's in the league who are not in their rookie deals. Dunleavy is a bad signing, and so is Foyle. Fisher's deal was bad until he performed decently at least in the statbook this season. His contract is still very long though.



Personal feelings are how the Warriors ownership sell tickets. First it was showing big(unneccesary) money to Jamison to show that this team is willing to spend money, and to tell the Warriors fans almost in a facad after things have transpired that this ownership is in it to win basketball games and keep their players. Then it was signing Danny Fortson to a big contract to further show the ownership's "dedication" to winning. The biggest of the personal feelings was made by the re-addition of Chris Mullin to the organization. This got everyone's expectations high, even after a dumb move of firing Musselman. By this point everyone was one Rowell's bandwagon of stating that Muss wasn't good for the team and was underachieving.

As it's been said, the main constant over the years of losing has been Chris Cohan and his ownership crew. Coaches have come and gone(often to more successful organizations and show their actual coaching abilities), and so have GM's and presidents of personale.

The best way to get into the winning way is to bring in guys who actually win, such as when they brought in Musselman, and stay away from bringing in past Warriors just to try to sell tickets, and create "optimism."

The Warriors are masters at not knowing what they are doing and providing terrible leadership. A prime example of this is the treatment of Troy Murphy. Over the past few offseasons the Warriors tried to get Murphy to become a three point shooter. Then what happens this year? They say, "Murphy, well, remember all of those three pointers we told you to practice over the last few summers? Well forget about all of that, you are going to be this team's center now." I could only imagine Murphy's face being told this...I believe this is where the frustration with Murphy by the fans lie; also the frustration between Murphy and coach/offensive system lies.</div>

First, to be fair, Arenas situation was really unfortunate and impossible for us to sign. I mean, how many teams actually prepare 10+ mils caproom for the emergency? Also, if it weren't for sudden 3-4 mils caproom jump, we could have retained Arenas for one more year and resign him for long term next year. Or what if Cohan agreed with under-the-table deal with Arenas... although I don't know how realistic that deal would have been for both sides.

But yeah, Saint did give bad deals as well. Contracts like Fortson or Caffey were bad ones, and you can argue that Jamison and Dampier deals were bad as well. It's because bad teams have to overpay players, and there hasn't been much exception for us in that regard. But there are couple differences in Saint and Mullin's signings. Saint always signed players that has a potential to meet the contract's worth, and he didn't bunch up contracts so that we are forced to make moves to dump contracts. In other hand, there is no upside for neither Foyle nor Fisher, and they will never meet their contract's value. But, that's what Mullin signed them, and the moment they signed those deals, they were overpaid till their contracts end. But, that really isn't the main problem. Our biggest problem is that our big and long contracts are bunched up from this year to 08/09 season. Our 6 contracts will take roughly 54 mils in this year, 60 mils in next year, and 65 mils in 08/09, and no contract ends in 3 years. So, we are forced in position to dump major salaries asap just to stay under luxury tax. If Mullin signed Fisher or Foyle like 3 years, instead of 6 and 5 years, we would have some breathing room. But, for next 3 years, we get zero breathing room, and since other teams know that fact, we are in disavantage when we make a deal. It really feels like Mullin is trying to squeeze pyramid shaped block into a tube, and that's the biggest problem for us.

In terms of amount, no GMs have above 48 mils total salary, and Mullin is in pace to go over 70 mils without signing any of our rookie contracted players. So, that shows how much Mullin is getting from Cohan. If we can't sign our young players, the blame needs to go to Mullin, not Cohan. And, that's why I think the only way for Mullin to solve this muddy situation is by trading our existing contracts and rookie prospects for superstars like KG. By doing so, not only we can dump our long contracts, we will also cash in our young prospects for impact superstar and reduce amount of rookie contracts. Whether that plan will pan out or not is remained to be seen. However, by staying pat, we are heading into a big financial problem, where we will dump players like Davis or Richardson for nothing and let our young players go for nothing.

Murphy's contract is pretty decent for a guy who put up double double, and Richardson is underpaid. And, it's ironic that Mullin's two 'best' signings are ones that Mullin actually didn't want to sign. Initially, Mullin said he won't resign Richardson and Murphy at that year. Then, their agent put pressure, including threatening Mullin with trade demand and Mullin gave in at the last min. The news of their resignings literary announced after the deadline passed. But the problem with those resignings (Richardson, Dunleavy, Murphy) are not their amounts, but how Mullin didn't wait for the last mins and exhause possible options. Because, there is no difference of signing them in 3rd year or 4th year, and that extra year could give us a lot of options including signing Abdul-Rahim for MLE. Also, while 10 mils per Murphy isn't a bad deal, he isn't a good fit for our club, which he showed for last two years. If we haven't made that deal, we could have traded him much easier. But, with his 60 mils / 6 years contract tag, our chance of trading Murphy for good deal decreased, because whether other teams like him or not, not many team can afford to receive that kind of contract. Anyway, we can regard that Richardson/Murphy signings are like Jamison trade to show that Mullin is committed to keep the team together, and at the end, those became relatively good moves.

And, there is no excuse for Dunleavy and Foyle signings or even Fisher's deal for some extent, since Mullin signed him to be our starting PG.

When I said personal feeling, I didn't mean to say personal feeling of fans. Number of times, Mullin's personal feeling clouded his decision makings, and a leader like Mullin should make objective decisions instead of let his personal feelings get in ways. There is no way for us to know how bad the relation went between Muss and Mullin. But, judging from Rowell's comment two years after the firing, we can only assume that the relationship was pretty bad. But, that doesn't mean Mullin should let his personal feeling control him and undercut Muss by saying 'Muss was underachieved'. In contrast, Muss said all the right thing when he was fired, and that's one aspect Kings owners really liked when they checked Muss' background. Same goes with Dampier. After years of underachieving, Dampier finally played well. But, when he opted out from the contract, that annoyed Mullin a lot just like a lot of fans. And, that triggered Mullin to give up on Dampier. OK, Foyle was a fan favorite and he always played 100%, while Dampier was a lazy one, who always underachived. However, underachiving Dampier was better than hustling Foyle, and to make things worse, Dampier had career year and injury plagued Foyle and his contract year. But, that didn't stop Mullin from going after Foyle immidiately. Dunleavy is another thing. Even if you are in madly love with somebody, before the marrage (or in this case 45 mils / 5 years), you have to think ahead and see if you are doing the right thing. For Dunleavy's case, he only played well for 2 months with Davis. Considering there is no difference by signing Dunleavy in his 3rd year or 4th year, there isn't any reason to resign Dunleavy after his 3rd year. But, Mullin's priority in last year was resigning Dunleavy. Till this day, I don't see any justification of Dunleavy's resigning other than Mullin's personal feeling toward Dunleavy (not homosexually obviously).

For Cohan... I don't know... He isn't certainly cheap, and he opened the wallet whenever necessary and he stays out from making decisions most of times. In a sense, you can say he is an ideal owner. But, whenever he made decisions, which is very few times, like hiring Twerdzik, PJ or Mullin, or keeping Nelson over Webber, those became franchise destroying decisions...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I read the same blog and I feel the same regarding warriors front office is full of suits, pr stunts, and future planners that are hired that don't know how to build a winning franchise. They've got no long term vision, only short term instincts.

BTW, only frustration I have with Murphy is that he stinks on defense and this franchise will get nowhere trying to be all offense without prolific scorers or balanced ways of attacking and setting the tempo. If he was a bench guy that would be great because he looks to score, he rebounds, and he'll drive or post up every so often to keep slower or smaller defenders honest. But as starter, no way he sets the tone on defense. He's so much of a liability that he can't be trusted to protect the hoop, defend some of his own matchups in the post or defend in transition. Plus, he doesn't pass much, but then again his teammates kind of suck.

What this franchise really needs is a strong foundation on all levels to go with profitability. I think no matter how well this franchise plays, the suits will always know they can sell tickets and not lose money. We've already proved this.</div>

Yeah, it's nice idea to collect people from 'glorious days'. But, the big problem is whether they can work or not. Obviously, some knows what they are doing like West or Dumas, while some don't have a clue how to build teams like Thomas. One thing is for sure. In terms of PR department, it's clearly working. After all, how many times we heard 'Fire Monty', while how little we heard 'Fire Mullin', when the huge blame belongs to Mullin for creating this unbalanced team, making wrong choices or hiring Monty at the first place?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, it's nice idea to collect people from 'glorious days'. But, the big problem is whether they can work or not. Obviously, some knows what they are doing like West or Dumas, while some don't have a clue how to build teams like Thomas. One thing is for sure. In terms of PR department, it's clearly working. After all, how many times we heard 'Fire Monty', while how little we heard 'Fire Mullin', when the huge blame belongs to Mullin for creating this unbalanced team, making wrong choices or hiring Monty at the first place?</div>

Haha, I'm sure that's why Mullin and his boys love Monty. Takes away the heat from him and makes a dandy scapegoat why this team continues to suck. There is a pattern here and its shown through this 12 years of playoff drought that they keep doing the same things over and over.

I'm not sure if Jerry West is overrated or not, but whoever thought a team based in Vancouver and then in Memphis could ever do well, meanwhile we have one of the largest basketball markets in the country and we suck.

I do like the way Detroit, the Spurs, and teams like Indiana with Reggie Miller were put together. The Suns were a pleasant suprise to rebound after one year without having a true center, but Amare Stoudamire had more than enough strength to hang at this position. Come to think of it the only real thing that these teams have in common is they've got the all-star big man and frontcourt that we do not have. This allows them to play some tough defense or play bigger than they are on offense. We have a backcourt, but no interior and no other supporting all-stars or lockdown defenders.

I guess Mullin would rather pattern players after him. Loyal, hardworking, slow, offensive minded, but smart enough to play within themselves. I like the loyal and good work ethic part, but I guess that is why Run TMC never was a huge playoff team because they lacked defensive and inside presence. Get me Nate + Ricky Barry circa 75. Offensive threats both inside and outside and they could pass, assist, rebound, steal, defend, etc.

I mean good players make coaches look good. Good coaches make players play even better. Something isn't fitting or maybe its both players and the coaching because we're not getting it done. Even if we squeeze 8 more wins with players and the coaching better than normal, it is still a stretch to call ourselves one of the best in the league. Not until we land that franchise guy that cannot be taken out of the game or shutdown the way Baron gets when they dare him to shoot or hard foul him on the way to the rack.