Warriors @ Spurs - 5:30PM 2/25/2006

Murphy work you magic on Duncan again

 

Spurs are probably going to double everyone but Foyle. Not because everyone else is an offense threat, but because Foyle sucks that much.

 

I'm loving Ellis and Diogu on the court. You got your big man who can pass from the high post and power it inside. You got your little guy who can shoot, pass and beat people with quickness.

Damn, that's the kind of lineup we need. Quick, good shooting backcourt, and a power type of frontcourt. It's been assbackwards for us in terms of roles.

 

Yeah no kidding. I love Monta Ellis, he's like everywhere!

BTW, Barnett is so dead on about everything. Unbelievable. I actually love his commentary now that he's not constantly raving about Dunleavy.

Bad play by Zarko how he ran his defenders right onto Fisher attacking baseline.

On some other plays I saw some bad calls on the Warriors and a couple of Warriors actually getting the way of the dribble penetrator.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">
BTW, Barnett is so dead on about everything. Unbelievable. I actually love his commentary now that he's not constantly raving about Dunleavy.
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I wish Monty had the same understanding of NBA basketball that Barnett possesses. Jim is one smart dude, he should be a coach.

 

Is it me, or does Jason Richardson look tired?

Dunleavy, I just see, is on the court. I forgot he was even on the roster for this game.

It's the 4th quarter and it's the first play that I have seen where there wasn't a pick-and-roll or no perimeter movement on offense. It was pretty cool, Pietrus flashing freely at the top of the key. He just air balled it though, that sucks.

Monta Ellis was the best player for the Warriors in the first half, and he doesn't even get to play until like a minute left in the third quarter and very bad basketball.

My question is what is the role of the post players for the Warriors? On offense they are the players that I see who move the most, usually setting screens and rolling. On defense the perimeter players get beat so badly the post players are just always in such bad positions inbetween help defense and man defense. This help defense which seems to be different for each post player seems to be hurting them terribly on the defensive glass, as is the pick and roll hurting them from getting any offensive rebounds. Diogu maybe jumps out and stays on the perimeter guy too long, Murphy is usually stuck on the post player and doesn't help the perimeter defender at all, and everyone else is usually inbetween the two.

I see Diogu on the top of the key, near the three point line waiting for the ball. He did make a nice pass to Ellis on that play though, but why is he always on the perimeter?

Ellis and Diogu are the best passers tonight. Fisher made a nice pass once too, but he just needs to initiate more.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">I wish Monty had the same understanding of NBA basketball that Barnett possesses. Jim is one smart dude, he should be a coach.</div>

Naw, then people would be blaming him for playing Dunleavy over Pietrus, failing to run halfcourt, failing to run fastbreaks, everything. Of course, you see what I'm getting at. I think this whole Monty hate is a product of knee jerking and not understanding what a good team is supposed to do together on the court. The doubt about Montgomery is that he's not more authoritative like Musselman was against NBA personalities and that he's not seasoned in the NBA. He's got assistants and he knows more about the game than we do, having played and coached at a higher level. Everything that's going on so far, doesn't make him a bad coach or a stupid coach or any namecalling that loud fans come up with to express their anger and frustration over what they perceive was a playoff bound team. Just like some knowledgeable fans were warning about counting our chickens before they've hatched while others were sure that Baron Davis would singlehandedly make this a playoff team.

I remember which posters here were dead on before the season started about our chances and they don't even think its the coaching that is the problem. This roster only changed with one guy at point guard and if we judged the 2nd half of every season we've had, we've always done better than the first half. I feel like I'm wasting my time with those who don't understand this when I visit other boards to chat. But I'm glad here we can at least explain ourselves thoroughly if we have different opinions on what our chances were at the playoffs. That's why I love this site and its fans.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post">Is it me, or does Jason Richardson look tired?

Dunleavy, I just see, is on the court. I forgot he was even on the roster for this game.
</div>

Yeah, it's probably why Richardson was rested in that 4th quarter because of the worry about playing today in the 2nd night of a back to back game.
Then some ignorant fans were going off why he was pulled. We're not a very deep team despite what Mullin says, because who else can score when you need him to? Dunleavy? Biedrins? Pietrus? Ellis? Everyone sucked but Richardson, Murphy and Fisher. Why Dunleavy and Foyle was put in, I don't know. But we're not deep at all.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post">
It's the 4th quarter and it's the first play that I have seen where there wasn't a pick-and-roll or no perimeter movement on offense. It was pretty cool, Pietrus flashing freely at the top of the key. He just air balled it though, that sucks.

Monta Ellis was the best player for the Warriors in the first half, and he doesn't even get to play until like a minute left in the third quarter and very bad basketball.

My question is what is the role of the post players for the Warriors? On offense they are the players that I see who move the most, usually setting screens and rolling. On defense the perimeter players get beat so badly the post players are just always in such bad positions inbetween help defense and man defense. This help defense which seems to be different for each post player seems to be hurting them terribly on the defensive glass, as is the pick and roll hurting them from getting any offensive rebounds. Diogu maybe jumps out and stays on the perimeter guy too long, Murphy is usually stuck on the post player and doesn't help the perimeter defender at all, and everyone else is usually inbetween the two.

I see Diogu on the top of the key, near the three point line waiting for the ball. He did make a nice pass to Ellis on that play though, but why is he always on the perimeter?

Ellis and Diogu are the best passers tonight. Fisher made a nice pass once too, but he just needs to initiate more.</div>

Good observations, Clif. I think in a simple response, the Warriors execution as a 5 man team isn't there. Either screens aren't being utilized, screens are being set poorly from where the play is supposed to be, players aren't moving quickly enough or under control with or without the ball, and poor decisions are being made. We had to have played almost perfectly against the Spurs and they make teams work hard for their shots.

What is really frustrating is there's nobody reliable to create offense for this team. We need Baron or more of Monta Ellis. Guys like Jrich, Murphy or Dunleavy or Fisher are just too slow to open up, especially when our team gets the majority of its easy ones based on quickness or superior dribble penetration.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">It seems like all the post players do is set screens for the guards and then roll and never get the ball. It seems like Diogu will get nice position within 5 feet of the hoop but the guard calls the play and hes got to come out and set a pick, never to recieve the ball.</div>
Yeah, bad decision making, poor teamwork, poor execution. The whole point of set plays isn't to create a shot for one guy, but to have a few options open depending on where the defenses shift and who is making the effort to get open and actually is open. If it goes outside, sometimes the ball never goes inside before it goes outside, or the play timing is never down to manufacture anything solid in a pick and roll or pick and pop. It's sad really.

This team is so hopeless, let's just get more rebounders in there and let's just get a quick, pure point guard that can actually run a fastbreak the right way. This is why we'll never be able to run more unless we can rebound better, space the floor by shifting defenses one way, pass better and have the ballhandler make better decisions. I don't know if Murphy or Foyle or any of the rebounders look to pass the ball up to a ballhandler that can push, but certainly Fisher doesn't want to because he knows its not his game. Then Richardson and Dunleavy often find their way into getting charge fouls when they get beat down the floor.

 

I missed the game tonight, but saw that Monta Ellis scored a career high and had a good game. And at PG, too!

Hope he keeps it up and gets more PT. We need him for the rest of this season and more next season. Hope to see Monta and Ike in the rooks-sophs game next season.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Naw, then people would be blaming him for playing Dunleavy over Pietrus, failing to run halfcourt, failing to run fastbreaks, everything. Of course, you see what I'm getting at. I think this whole Monty hate is a product of knee jerking and not understanding what a good team is supposed to do together on the court. The doubt about Montgomery is that he's not more authoritative like Musselman was against NBA personalities and that he's not seasoned in the NBA. He's got assistants and he knows more about the game than we do, having played and coached at a higher level. Everything that's going on so far, doesn't make him a bad coach or a stupid coach or any namecalling that loud fans come up with to express their anger and frustration over what they perceive was a playoff bound team. Just like some knowledgeable fans were warning about counting our chickens before they've hatched while others were sure that Baron Davis would singlehandedly make this a playoff team.

I remember which posters here were dead on before the season started about our chances and they don't even think its the coaching that is the problem. This roster only changed with one guy at point guard and if we judged the 2nd half of every season we've had, we've always done better than the first half. I feel like I'm wasting my time with those who don't understand this when I visit other boards to chat. But I'm glad here we can at least explain ourselves thoroughly if we have different opinions on what our chances were at the playoffs. That's why I love this site and its fans.</div>


I gotta get in on this .

Monty's not the blame all, end all as there are plenty of problems with the team -- selfish play by the ball handlers, slow defense, poor man defense, not enough rebounding, poor passing, shooting too many 3-balls, living on perimeter shooting, poor free throws, etc.

But I do think a "decent" coach would have addressed some of these problems by now.

The main ones which fall upon Monty are the players should be setting good screens and getting the offense moving. We should have pick n' row combos that work well together identified. The players should be able to do these plays in their sleep. It should be a matter of doing it with different looks and at different areas of the court. Instead, we still look like we're learning the steps. If this SYSTEM is not going to work with current personnel, then Monty should try something different like playing uptempo more.

Second, the substitutions should be much more smoother and time outs called on a regular basis. There are still substitutions that has one scratching their head and time outs are too few and far in-between. In the NBA, it's on-the-job training for the rooks and they haven't got much training. Generally, the vets are called on to win the game, but if they're not doing it, then maybe it's time to get some rooks in there who may change things around. We see that all the time as bench players anxious to get some PT give their teams lifts when their play is sagging.

Third, we need to have some plays being called on the fly. This never happens! In the NBA, one has to coach on their feet, play matchups and respond to what the other team is doing. Monty's not too good at doing this and ends up being out coached during crunch time.

Finally, our defense is as inconsistent as our offense. Players don't like to play D because it takes effort. The same can be said for rebounding. Maybe Monty can't play D or rebound for these guys, but he can get on their butts for not playing D and not trying to rebound (Foyle)!

Again, all of the blame should not be passed on to Monty. In the Houston game, there was some ball hogging by JRich and he didn't know how much time was left at the end. If he looked to pass, then the W's could have gotten an open shot or he could have seen he had time to make a move in order to get a better shot. I blame Rich for that and not Monty.

As for Eric Musselman, I don't mind Monty is not authoritative, but it seems EMu has the better record his first two seasons here compared to Monty. Earlier today, I saw a projection on what the Warriors record will be this season and EMu comes out with a better record even if he had lesser talent overall. I think most of us would agree the current team has more talented players.

Monty: 36-46 (projected)
34-48
-----
70-94

Emu: 37-45
38-44
-----
75-89

 

Yeah Monta was great tonight. Without Ellis the Warriors would have been in big, big trouble. Monta made Tony Parker look average in terms of quickness and Tony's pretty quick. I like Monta's defense, he is so light on his feet, compared to say a Jason Richardson who sometimes looks stuck to the floor. Monta was also the only one on offense who could create anything.

I don't think it's a lie at all when the assistatn coaches said that Monta was sometimes the best player on the court during scrimages/practice.

Ike can do some good things out there too. His help defense is something that could get some fine tuning as opponents are finding him helping too much and leaving his man too much, I think, and sometimes for the rebound, such as that one foul on Manu in the first half for that strange form of a three point play. And I find the whole offense to be a bit out of sync and kind of chaotic, especially for the post players. But Ike has shown the skills. It's just time for everything else to come together with the team and just getting experience before we can see what the real Ike Diogu is all about, and I think it will be pretty good then too.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, it's probably why Richardson was rested in that 4th quarter because of the worry about playing today in the 2nd night of a back to back game.
Then some ignorant fans were going off why he was pulled. We're not a very deep team despite what Mullin says, because who else can score when you need him to? Dunleavy? Biedrins? Pietrus? Ellis? Everyone sucked but Richardson, Murphy and Fisher. Why Dunleavy and Foyle was put in, I don't know. But we're not deep at all.</div>

Now, you're beginning to see why we need a go to guy like Paul Pierce for this team. Okay, I'll go for KG if he doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I was questioning why JRich was pulled in the 4Q last night when he had the hot hand. Didn't know the same thing occurred tonight, but wasn't the game out of reach by then?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">What is really frustrating is there's nobody reliable to create offense for this team. We need Baron or more of Monta Ellis. Guys like Jrich, Murphy or Dunleavy or Fisher are just too slow to open up, especially when our team gets the majority of its easy ones based on quickness or superior dribble penetration.</div>

Custodianrules2, you sound like a point guard or Baron . Wasn't Baron complaining about Ike not having the timing to get the ball back on the pick n' row?

I suppose this is why I keep harping on uptempo and motion offense where the guards start the offense. We got ball handlers, but don't have the front court executors that can get the offense going quickly or on a consistent basis. It's a lot of timing, so the screens got to come fast.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah Monta was great tonight. Without Ellis the Warriors would have been in big, big trouble. Monta made Tony Parker look average in terms of quickness and Tony's pretty quick. I like Monta's defense, he is so light on his feet, compared to say a Jason Richardson who sometimes looks stuck to the floor. Monta was also the only one on offense who could create anything.

I don't think it's a lie at all when the assistatn coaches said that Monta was sometimes the best player on the court during scrimages/practice.

Ike can do some good things out there too. His help defense is something that could get some fine tuning as opponents are finding him helping too much and leaving his man too much, I think, and sometimes for the rebound, such as that one foul on Manu in the first half for that strange form of a three point play. And I find the whole offense to be a bit out of sync and kind of chaotic, especially for the post players. But Ike has shown the skills. It's just time for everything else to come together with the team and just getting experience before we can see what the real Ike Diogu is all about, and I think it will be pretty good then too.</div>

Some really good comments Clif25. I'm getting real high on Monta and Ike and hope they're not traded for say a KG over the summer. I also like AB, too.

Interesting comment on Ike's D, too. He needs to learn when to come and when not too I suppose. Also, when he's on the ball, he goes too far out on his man leaving the paint and backdoor open.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jason voorhees:</div><div class="quote_post">I was questioning why JRich was pulled in the 4Q last night when he had the hot hand. Didn't know the same thing occurred tonight, but wasn't the game out of reach by then?

Some really good comments Clif25. I'm getting real high on Monta and Ike and hope they're not traded for say a KG over the summer. I also like AB, too.
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CR2 was noting how Richardson didn't play in the fourth quarter because he must have been out of energy after the back to back. I guess the same thing happened tonight in that Jason was on the bench in the 4 quarter, but it was in much different circumstances. The game was out of reach and Jason was just bad on defense and his offense wasn't coming.

And I didn't mean to build up Monta and Ike that big, hehe. I'd trade both for KG, though it wouldn't work salary wise, heh. But Ellis seems like he'll be something special. If nothing else he'll be a good defender. But in this game tonight he showed off his range with three nice 20 foot jumpers and then he was able to penetrate and break down the defense and made a couple of nice passes. Monta played very well tonight as if he has been in the league for a couple of years already. Sometimes I see him taking the Derek Fisher/Jason Richardson/ Baron Davis shot selection though, that can be kind of disturbing at times, though since they went in a few times tonight, it wasn't so bad, eh? But that's something else about his game, though he is not so bad as maybe Pietrus in just catching and shooting.