I just want to say that you guys had the most talented team last season and I honestly was rooting for you guys in the western conference Finals. I apologize if this brings back hurtful memories, but after reading Bill Simmons article on espn about the crooked ref who officiated game 3 of Spurs-Suns. I believe you guys got screwed. So as a Rocket's fan who was also hurt due to travesty in the past three years Example: Dallas-Rockets series 3 years ago where Micheal Finley knocked ball out of tmac's hands while he was out of bounds to cause MAvs to win the game thus winning the series. So no disrespect to the spurs, but Suns fans...even though its not in the history books. I dub you with any and all authourity I have...champions!
As if that weren't bad enough, Stern and Jackson were jealous that the refs were fixing games so they had to join in on the fun and throw down the worst decision since Tom Brady's non-fumble. I of course am speaking of suspending Amare and Diaw for doing exactly what Duncan and Bowen did (taking a few steps towards players who were jawing at each other) -- except Duncan and Bowen walked onto the court during the game, Amare and Diaw were still on the baseline and the game was stopped. The Suns were already Champions in most people's minds before this ref fixing, now it's even more obvious... but alas, no trophy, no official Championship, not even an "I'm sorry" from the incompetent David Stern. At least the NFL season is around the corner; it's sad how far baseball and basketball have fallen.
but even if the event didnt happen, there's no telling who would've won the series, so it's not fair to say the Suns were robbed of the championship. Still, the suns in the finals would've been better for NBA ratings.
I think the championship this year is tainted (just like when the Heat won), but that doesn't automatically make the Suns the Champs. The Spurs won in six games, the series TmacGarnett was referring to was a seven game series. And when Duncan stepped onto the court there wasn't as volatile a situation going on.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think the championship this year is tainted (just like when the Heat won), but that doesn't automatically make the Suns the Champs. The Spurs won in six games, the series TmacGarnett was referring to was a seven game series. And when Duncan stepped onto the court there wasn't as volatile a situation going on.</div> You can say that yes, it wasn't a volatile situation, but the NBA rule clearly states...no player shall leave the bench. If it were open to interpretation, then i'm sure amare and Boris would have played in the next game. I'm not saying the Suns are the champs...im saying spurs MIGHT not be. I say might because there is a chance that the could have beaten the suns either way. It is a lot of IFs but i just dedicated this thread to appreciating last years roster.
<div class="quote_poster">TmacGarnett Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You can say that yes, it wasn't a volatile situation, but the NBA rule clearly states...no player shall leave the bench. If it were open to interpretation, then i'm sure amare and Boris would have played in the next game. I'm not saying the Suns are the champs...im saying spurs MIGHT not be. I say might because there is a chance that the could have beaten the suns either way. It is a lot of IFs but i just dedicated this thread to appreciating last years roster.</div> Wrong. Read the bold part below. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Section VII--Fines c. During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $35,000. The suspensions will commence prior to the start of their next game. A team must have a minimum of eight players dressed and ready to play in every game. If five or more players leave the bench, the players will serve their suspensions alphabetically, according to the first letters of their last name. If seven bench players are suspended (assuming no participants are included), four of them would be suspended for the first game following the altercation. The remaining three would be suspended for the second game following the altercation. </div> To say that Duncan and Bowen should be suspended when two players got tangled up after a dunk (and the two players didn't even confront each other at that) is dumb. There was no altercation at all. I don't think Boris did enough to get suspended, but Amare charged to the altercation and was a few feet away before being held back by assistants. The call was right, but the rule is dumb.
Spurs were obviously the better team so anyway you put it the best team won the championship. enuf said
umm... in game 3 Amare only played 20 minutes because of foul trouble, and the suns went on to lose that game. Im not sure how you can say they were obviously a better team since it kinda seems like we got screwed out of this game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Suns were already Champions in most people's minds before this ref fixing, now it's even more obvious... but alas, no trophy, no official Championship, not even an "I'm sorry" from the incompetent David Stern. At least the NFL season is around the corner; it's sad how far baseball and basketball have fallen.</div> According to who? Suns fans?
Its funny how people are still crying about something that happened acouple months ago.. they lost with Amare they lost without him Spurs were the better team.
Sucks for the Suns but they lost and nothing is going to change even though they were the favorites to win the Championship.
Games where rigged so the whole series was fixed and it really pisses me off, I dont even want to think about it what Nash and Stoudamire and other Suns teammates may think
yes, it's true the suns may have gotten a couple of unfavorable calls in the series because of donaghy. but if you think that was enough for them to lose, you are OUT OF YOUR MIND! they got owned by the Spurs, mentally and physically who again proved that if you can only play run-and-gun, you CANNOT go all the way.
The answer is we will never know, so there's no right or wrong answer to the debate. From reading through the various articles, most of the games were not decided by Tim Donaghy. He was not manipulating the actual results, he was manipulating the point spreads, also referred to as point shaving.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He was not manipulating the actual results, he was manipulating the point spreads, also referred to as point shaving.</div> Bill Simmons wrote a very good article about this, I'm too lazy to look it back up, but he listed several games that he ref'd in that were 1 point games or games that a team had won on the last possesion. Don't be so naive to think 1 bad call can't change a whole game; let's say Elton Brand got his 5th foul called on him with 5 min left in the 4th quarter, he's not going to be able to play as agressively on defense, or worse he calls a 6th foul on a team's best player (Gilbert Arenas for instance) hoping to keep the game close, but instead it costs that team the lead and win. San Antonio won in 6 games, but without ref fixing, Phoenix likely would have won Game 3 at home. Then without Stern fixing, Phoenix would have won Game 5 (they almost won without Amare and Diaw, even if they combined for 4 points, Phoenix would've won by 1) thus Phoenix would've won in 5 games!
<div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Bill Simmons wrote a very good article about this, I'm too lazy to look it back up, but he listed several games that he ref'd in that were 1 point games or games that a team had won on the last possesion. Don't be so naive to think 1 bad call can't change a whole game; let's say Elton Brand got his 5th foul called on him with 5 min left in the 4th quarter, he's not going to be able to play as agressively on defense, or worse he calls a 6th foul on a team's best player (Gilbert Arenas for instance) hoping to keep the game close, but instead it costs that team the lead and win. San Antonio won in 6 games, but without ref fixing, Phoenix likely would have won Game 3 at home. Then without Stern fixing, Phoenix would have won Game 5 (they almost won without Amare and Diaw, even if they combined for 4 points, Phoenix would've won by 1) thus Phoenix would've won in 5 games!</div> I recall the Spurs getting screwed in a game as well, so that would negate your Game 3 beef. You have no idea what would have happened in Game Seven so this thread is still pointless.
<div class="quote_poster">amador08 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Spurs were obviously the better team so anyway you put it the best team won the championship. enuf said</div> I do admit, I am biased in my opinion, but I don't think the Spurs were a better team. There was no fair way the Spurs were going to win that series. Nash was ridden by Bowen and Ginobili more often than a cheap hooker, and no fouls were called. Amare would glance at a Spur and would get called for a foul. <div class="quote_poster">SpeeJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Games where rigged so the whole series was fixed and it really pisses me off, I dont even want to think about it what Nash and Stoudamire and other Suns teammates may think </div> My thoughts exactly. As much as fans are upset, the players and coaches are the ones that bust their asses only to get cheated out of what was rightfully theirs. <div class="quote_poster">NYC_Balla Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">yes, it's true the suns may have gotten a couple of unfavorable calls in the series because of donaghy. but if you think that was enough for them to lose, you are OUT OF YOUR MIND! they got owned by the Spurs, mentally and physically who again proved that if you can only play run-and-gun, you CANNOT go all the way.</div> I would've been mentally and physically exhausted too if I was trying to play against a Spurs team that could commit no fouls, a degenerate referee (at least one), and the NBA commissioner. Those are tough odds to win against. <div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The answer is we will never know, so there's no right or wrong answer to the debate. </div> That's the saddest part. If the Spurs would've beaten the Suns fairly like they did two years before, I would've accepted and moved on. But due to the numerous instances of apparent cheating, I can't help but feel robbed. <div class="quote_poster">scorbutic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Bill Simmons wrote a very good article about this, I'm too lazy to look it back up, but he listed several games that he ref'd in that were 1 point games or games that a team had won on the last possesion. Don't be so naive to think 1 bad call can't change a whole game; let's say Elton Brand got his 5th foul called on him with 5 min left in the 4th quarter, he's not going to be able to play as agressively on defense, or worse he calls a 6th foul on a team's best player (Gilbert Arenas for instance) hoping to keep the game close, but instead it costs that team the lead and win. San Antonio won in 6 games, but without ref fixing, Phoenix likely would have won Game 3 at home. Then without Stern fixing, Phoenix would have won Game 5 (they almost won without Amare and Diaw, even if they combined for 4 points, Phoenix would've won by 1) thus Phoenix would've won in 5 games!</div> I remember Simmons' article. It made plenty of valid points about how much a few calls can change a game, and how much one game can change a series. He also mentioned how Game 3 was the perfect game to be fixed since a Suns victory would've drastically changed momentum. The way I see it, without the unfortunate circumstances, the Suns could've won 4 games in the series. Game 1 was the only one that the circumstances were nobody's fault (Nash's bloody nose late in the game), and Game 6 (won "fairly") was just the Suns being exhausted from swimming upstream the whole series. BUT... all of that aside, I'm ready to move on to another season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">San Antonio won in 6 games, but without ref fixing, Phoenix likely would have won Game 3 at home. Then without Stern fixing, Phoenix would have won Game 5 (they almost won without Amare and Diaw, even if they combined for 4 points, Phoenix would've won by 1) thus Phoenix would've won in 5 games!</div> Actually a Phoenix fan (I think that's what he said he was) did something on this and found that Donaghy actually made more calls in favour of the Suns in that game and the other refs were the ones that made more calls in favour of the Spurs.
<div class="quote_poster">og15 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Actually a Phoenix fan (I think that's what he said he was) did something on this and found that Donaghy actually made more calls in favour of the Suns in that game and the other refs were the ones that made more calls in favour of the Spurs.</div> Not even with a Suns bias, I can it that it doesn't really matter. Unless I can see the game again and see when Donaghy blew his whistle, how many times is irrevalent. It only takes so many to tip the balance in favor of one team.
