Bogus! We are quietly doing Philly's lame "process"

the platypus did already

 

And goodness knows there are no other guards of that quality out there...

 

He's 28, shot 46% from 3 and started 73 games, while on a cheap contract. It's kind of insane that some posters here are implying he was a random throwin that had little impact on the Suns agreeing to the final trade.

There is a strong argument he was by far the best player or asset in the trade outside Dame/Jrue.

 

They had already agreed to the trade in principle without him included. That's a fact.

Nobody is dissing on him. Simply stating the facts. We could have traded for Ayton without trading Dame.

If somebody wants to claim we couldn't have included Camara, fine. But the Ayton/Nurk trade was going to happen anyway.

 

That's not a fact. Allen was a key piece that Conin assured Phoenix they would find valuable enough to agree to the deal. There was never an agreement to do the trade without value at that position.

 

Nobody has suggested there didn't need to be value at that position in a deal that didn't include a Dame trade.

 

I kind of did, based upon the article by Woj. It certainly implied that Phoenix may have been content with Oladipo as that was one of the players they thought Portland might add to the equation

there's no certainty in this but my thinking is that the trade of Nurk+Little+Keon for Ayton would have happened with or without that mystery guard from the Dame trade. And it may have been that the upgrade from Oladipo to Allen gave the Blazers the leverage to pry away Camara

 

But Oladipo would be value, wouldn't he? It goes to support the theory that there exists a broad range of players that could have gotten it done.

That seems very clear considering everything that has been reported since. I really don't know why anybody would dispute it.

 

Yes as you say this is a lot of your speculation.

Many reports that Dame wanted Nurk and specifically didn't want Ayton.

I don't think Nurk vs Ayton will really ultimately matter too much long term for the Blazers, neither will or won't impact contending. But I do think it's valid to combine all these components as a direct part of the Dame trade haul.

 

I don't read the reporting as though Phoenix would've accepted Oladipo in place of Allen. He is 5 years older and only played 8 games the season prior, shot 33% threes this year.

They immediately agreed to the deal with Allen. If it was Oladipo perhaps they would have wanted one of the FRP or some other asset to finalize the trade.

 

Could well have been. It's possible. But they would have still been willing to deal.

 

obviously, all of us are speculating

and I didn't say that the Dame trade wouldn't have happened if the Ayton trade did. I think Cronin maneuvered Dame into asking for a trade and had every intention of completing it. He was just delaying the Ayton trade to see if it could be welded to the Dame trade while maybe adding another asset to the package. As I said, I suspect the upgrade from Oladipo to Allen may have been the leverage that landed Camara

for some reason, Cronin seemed fixated on Ayton. I agree with you, or at least with what you implied, that there will be little difference in impact between Ayton or Nurkic. Ayton is a better shooter, especially from mid-range; about even as scorers; Nurkic is a little better rebounder and much better passer; and Nurkic is a better rim protector and paint defender. Ayton may be a bit more mobile out on the perimeter. Ayton is certainly a lot more expensive

clearly, Phoenix knew the Blazers were talking to Milwaukee about Dame because they had Allen on the list of possible mystery guards (so it wasn't quite the secret some reports said).

The mystery I'm curious about is Oladipo. He was on OKC's roster at that time. How was a Dame trade going to bring in OKC? JRue to the Thunder? That's a scary thought....a backcourt of SGA, Jalen Williams, JRue, and Dort. OKC certainly has the portfolio of draft picks Cronin would have coveted. Would Dort have then been sent to Portland?

 

That is not a fact.

It was agreed to in principle, but Allen was included in the agreement. Phoenix just didn't know for sure who the player was. But based on the position, age, contract -> they knew it was 1 of 2-3 players (Kyle Anderson likely being the other).

It was already built into the calculus of the trade

 

Yes. I agree. That's a fact. It has been confirmed.

 

Allen's (or a corresponding asset) inclusion was the basis for the agreement in principle.

Your statement was stating that they had the agreement without the inclusion of Allen (or corresponding asset)... which is not correct

 

That is not my statement. But I appreciate your effort stating things for me.

 

I never read it as discussions happened with OKC. Just that Cronin gave some specifics on the player to PHX that indicated it was likely Allen or Oladipo.

 

People talk about this like the 76ers did some brilliant thing but 3 out of their 4 players they got were busts. Simmons, Okafor and Fultz.

 

Simmons looked awfully good for a while, but then the excrement struck the rotary oscillator. The 76ers could have drafted Brandon Ingram, Jalen Brown, Jamal Murray, Sabonis or Siakam

Okafor was definitely a bust, but the 76ers could have drafted Porzingis, Myles Turner, or Devin Booker

and yeah, Fultz was a major fuckup. But the 76ers could have drafted Tatum, Fox, Markkanen, Donovan Mitchell, or Bam Adebayo

that 'process' was about creating opportunities and it was extremely successful at doing that. The 76ers could have a 3-headed monster of Embiid, Booker, and Tatum; or any mix-&-match puzzle from those 3 options above. That they don't isn't really the fault of the process; it's the fault of prospect evaluation after the process has completed