I think the first thing the Warriors should do right now is start rebuilding. The first thing to do is get rid of Dunleavy. Why? Just face it, he'll sleepwalk for a few nights and then he'll drop twenty and sleepwalk again. We throw Dale Davis in with him. Perfect trade right here. Golden State trades: C Dale Davis (2.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 14.9 minutes) SF Mike Dunleavy (11.8 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 31.8 minutes) Golden State receives: SG Jalen Rose (15.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 29.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +1.2 ppg, -6.4 rpg, and -1.0 apg. Toronto trades: SG Jalen Rose (15.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 29.5 minutes) Toronto receives: C Dale Davis (2.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 14.9 minutes) SF Mike Dunleavy (11.8 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 31.8 minutes) Change in team outlook: -1.2 ppg, +6.4 rpg, and +1.0 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Golden State and Toronto being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Golden State and Toronto had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Why we do it is because we get rid of one of the worst players on the team along with an old expiring contract and in return get a great small forward who can score 20 or 25 a game when needed. New starting lineup: PG: Speedy Claxton/ Derek Fisher/ Luis Flores SG: Jason Richardson/ Mickael Pietrus/ Calbert Cheany SF: Jalen Rose/ Zarko Caparkapa/ Calbert Cheany PF: Troy Murphy/ Zarko Caparkapa/ Eduardo Najera C: Cliff Robinson/ Adonal Foyle/ Andris Biedrins Next thing is get rid of Fisher. Sure he's the veteran soilder who always gets the team together and does hudles, but whatr has he done for us, zilch. He might have that pretty outside shot every 3 25 footers that he misses, he might have that free throw consictincy, but he is a mentor to the younger players and he is showing them how to throw up a 25 footer every time he gets the ball in transition. Perfect trade right here Golden State trades: PG Derek Fisher (10.2 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.0 apg in 25.1 minutes) Golden State receives: C Marc Jackson (14.1 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 0.9 apg in 27.9 minutes) Change in team outlook: +3.9 ppg, +4.3 rpg, and -3.1 apg. Philadelphia trades: C Marc Jackson (14.1 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 0.9 apg in 27.9 minutes) Philadelphia receives: PG Derek Fisher (10.2 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.0 apg in 25.1 minutes) Change in team outlook: -3.9 ppg, -4.3 rpg, and +3.1 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Golden State and Philadelphia being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Golden State and Philadelphia had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Why we do it is that we get a center that used to play for us and that is a rare low post force. Why Philly might do it, they get that veteran that leads the team that will be a mentor for the young players, Fisher goes back to a winning team, and who knows, he might just play better for them then he did with us. Our new starting lineup: PG: Speedy Claxton/ Luis Flores SG: Jason Richardson/ Mickael Pietrus/ Calbert Cheany SF: Jalen Rose/ Mickael Pietrus/ Zarko Caparkapa/ Calbert Cheany PF: Troy Murphy/ Zarko Caparkapa/ Eduardo Najera C: Marc Jackson/ Cliff Robinson/ Adonal Foyle/ Andris Biedrins Next up, we make NJ up its offer for Cliffy and we add in Najera to the mix. Why Najera? He just isn't what we need and his knee soreness is making me think he is the next NVE. Also he didn't live up to my expecations as the guy to replace the Custodian and he was definetly no worht Dampier. The trade becomes: Golden State trades: PF Clifford Robinson (9.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 27.3 minutes) SF Eduardo Najera (4.1 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.7 apg in 12.4 minutes) Golden State receives: SG Ron Mercer (9.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2.3 apg in 35.3 minutes) PF Brian Scalabrine (4.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.8 apg in 22.0 minutes) Change in team outlook: +0.5 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and +1.5 apg. New Jersey trades: SG Ron Mercer (9.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2.3 apg in 35.3 minutes) PF Brian Scalabrine (4.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.8 apg in 22.0 minutes) New Jersey receives: PF Clifford Robinson (9.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 27.3 minutes) SF Eduardo Najera (4.1 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.7 apg in 12.4 minutes) Change in team outlook: -0.5 ppg, -2.9 rpg, and -1.5 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Golden State and New Jersey being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Golden State and New Jersey had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. We do it because we get a good PF to come off the bench. Also we get rid of the back up woes for the SG. WEe then waive Calbert Cheany and the starting lineup: PG: Speedy Claxton/ Luis Flores SG: Jason Richardson/ Ron Mercer/ Mickael Pietrus SF: Jalen Rose/ Mickael Pietrus/ Zarko Caparkapa PF: Troy Murphy/ Brian Scalabrine/ Zarko Caparkapa C: Marc Jackson/ Zarko Caparkapa/ Andris Biedrins Why we do the rebuilding process is that quite simply, we sucked. We lacked a center, we had some cancers that were hurting the offense and defense, we had expiring contracts that were just so attractive to other teams, and in return, we get a good starting small forward, a good backup shooting guard, a solid power forward, a starting center that we had and got rid of and reclaimed him when we needed him, and last but not least, a bit of cap room which was something we needed how Mullin was building this team Your guys thoughts
It would be great to make Davis/Dunleavy trade to get J.Rose, and D-Fish for M.Jackson is sounds good to, but I don't think that GSW should trade Robinson and Najera for Mercer Scalabrine. Maybe GSW do have to much power forwards, but Robinson is doing very well this this season, and he would be much more usefull than Mercer... I still don't get it why NBA teams don't like to check out players who are free agents, but have no NBA experiance. Corect me if I am wrong, but there are a lot of undrafted NBA talent who are stars now, like Brad Miller, Josh Howard and others... For example GSW claimed this Euro guy Sekularic, but did not bother to even call him to training camp. Ok. Basketball in Europe is nothing like NBA, but still there are a lot of players who would do just fine in NBA. There are a lot of guys from US, who did not make the draft becuse of injuries, but now are tearing apart euro teams. 4 example this guy T.Nesby had about 8 PPG in last nba season if I remember corectly, but now he plays in Lithuania... My point is - if somebody like Flores or somebody else is struguling, just get rid of him and try next one! Now GSW needs SG who can make some 10 PPG, but they don't even consider getting Anthony Parker from Tel-Aviv who is in great shape and can do some damage.
^ Mercer can score 10 plus off the bench and I agree that we have enough PF's, but Zarko is more of a center/ small forward with PF as his smallest priority. Cliffy would turn into a backup for Marc Jackson and je is a starter, so he would demand a trade and we would have to get rid of someone from the lneup after the Jackson trade, and well everyone but Cliff and Eddy are untouchable. Another reason to get Mercer is we have crappy backup SG's (Pietrus is a small forward) so we get Mercer and release Cheany.
I wouldn't go for the Rose trade. Rose would bring more scoring to the W's, yes. But along with it he is a downgrade at rebounding, passing, and a wash at defense (as both he and Dunleavy are horrible defenders). If only those factors were considered, I would probably make this trade, especially because Davis is rotting on the bench, however, there are two other things to consider. One, he is a cancer in the locker room . . . that is the last thing you want on a team that is performing poorly. Two, he probably has the absolute worst contract in the NBA. In '06/07 the W's would be paying 17 million to a player that can't make it off the Raptor's bench. The Fisher for Jackson trade, on the other hand, I would take in a heartbeat, but I don't think Philly would go for it. There is an old rule for trading in basketball, which is if you aren't increasing talent, don't give up size. Philly wouldn't be gaining talent, and Jackson is a hell of a lot bigger than Fisher. Also, Philly already has guards Iverson, Iguodala, McKie, and Ollie signed on to long-term contracts. The Mercer trade I would go for if the W's had already unloaded Dunleavy at a good rate. Although, as soon as Cliff is gone, the season is effectively over for the Warriors. Also, it's questionable how valuable Mercer is going to be to the Nets with Jefferson possibly lost for the year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GSWScruff:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't go for the Rose trade. Rose would bring more scoring to the W's, yes. But along with it he is a downgrade at rebounding, passing, and a wash at defense (as both he and Dunleavy are horrible defenders). If only those factors were considered, I would probably make this trade, especially because Davis is rotting on the bench, however, there are two other things to consider. One, he is a cancer in the locker room . . . that is the last thing you want on a team that is performing poorly. Two, he probably has the absolute worst contract in the NBA. In '06/07 the W's would be paying 17 million to a player that can't make it off the Raptor's bench. The Fisher for Jackson trade, on the other hand, I would take in a heartbeat, but I don't think Philly would go for it. There is an old rule for trading in basketball, which is if you aren't increasing talent, don't give up size. Philly wouldn't be gaining talent, and Jackson is a hell of a lot bigger than Fisher. Also, Philly already has guards Iverson, Iguodala, McKie, and Ollie signed on to long-term contracts. The Mercer trade I would go for if the W's had already unloaded Dunleavy at a good rate. Although, as soon as Cliff is gone, the season is effectively over for the Warriors. Also, it's questionable how valuable Mercer is going to be to the Nets with Jefferson possibly lost for the year.</div> True, true. Like I said Fisher is a seasoned vet that might play better for a winning team and could be a mentor to the younger Sixers. I added Cheant in on trade checker, but it wouldn't work
We should make a play for a center/power forward like Samuel Dalembert or Dasagna Diop. Who knows, they are young and if they attend those Pete Newell big man camps they could be laying down some post moves like Dampier or better. Foyle just can't hang at 6'10 with no hops and the low basketball IQ he's carried for so long. Now Dalembert isn't a very knowledgeable basketball player, but you can't teach what he has. Freakish Athleticism and size. We also shouldn't underrate some of those undersized power forwards that can bang down low like Al Jefferson or Michael Sweetney. The problem with these post players is they need to develop the instincts of a point guard to know when to kick out or feed to it to somebody that can move the ball around the perimeter for an open shot. They also need to be tough and fearless and not kick out too early or draw all these offensive fouls.
I agree with Custodian on this one. If we are going to trade Dunleavy, I think we should get a potential starting 5 in return like a Dalembert (not quite sold on Diop, reminds me of a young Adonal Foyle). I would also pursue a big PF, and Custodian gave an example of 2 very good up and comers, who we might be able to steal away from their team. I think it would be able to work since we could try to experiment with Murphy at the 5, who is taller and plays more like a center, then our current starting center. I would also try to pursue Eddy Curry and Kwame Brown in the offseason, if not in a trade dealine swap.
After Jackson's good rookie season, all he did was whine and complain. i wouldn't want to see him back even though he is a decent center.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rudeezy:</div><div class="quote_post">After Jackson's good rookie season, all he did was whine and complain. i wouldn't want to see him back even though he is a decent center.</div> I agree with that, I can't stand MJ, at the sixers game, I was sitting about 6 rows off the court, and he is a weird dude, he is one of those guys who shouts everything that is going on, like "SCREEN!SWITCH!GOTHIM! but in a obnoxious way, not a beneficial way. He also got called for a three second call and couldn't believe it, so he starts barking at AI to talk to the refs, and AI just kinda blew him off, pretty funny. No chance we get Jefferson, he is a stud. Kwame might be good, and I think we need to incorporate Bierdrins more in the second half, he could be the real deal and starting 5 in 2 years.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">We should make a play for a center/power forward like Samuel Damlebert or Dasagna Diop. Who knows, they are young and if they attend those Pete Newell big man camps they could be laying down some post moves like Dampier or better. Foyle just can't hang at 6'10 with no hops and the low basketball IQ he's carried for so long. Now Dalembert isn't a very knowledgeable basketball player, but you can't teach what he has. Freakish Athleticism and size. We also shouldn't underrate some of those undersized power forwards that can bang down low like Al Jefferson or Michael Sweetney. The problem with these post players is they need to develop the instincts of a point guard to know when to kick out or feed to it to somebody that can move the ball around the perimeter for an open shot. They also need to be tough and fearless and not kick out too early or draw all these offensive fouls.</div> I tried Dalembert, but it didn't work.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">We should make a play for a center/power forward like Samuel Dalembert or Dasagna Diop. Who knows, they are young and if they attend those Pete Newell big man camps they could be laying down some post moves like Dampier or better. Foyle just can't hang at 6'10 with no hops and the low basketball IQ he's carried for so long. Now Dalembert isn't a very knowledgeable basketball player, but you can't teach what he has. Freakish Athleticism and size. We also shouldn't underrate some of those undersized power forwards that can bang down low like Al Jefferson or Michael Sweetney. The problem with these post players is they need to develop the instincts of a point guard to know when to kick out or feed to it to somebody that can move the ball around the perimeter for an open shot. They also need to be tough and fearless and not kick out too early or draw all these offensive fouls.</div> I found a Damlbert trade. Golden State trades: PG Derek Fisher (10.4 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 4.0 apg in 25.7 minutes) SF Mike Dunleavy (11.6 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 31.5 minutes) Golden State receives: SF Aaron McKie (1.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 12.2 minutes) C Samuel Dalembert (5.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 21.4 minutes) SF Kyle Korver (11.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.1 minutes) Change in team outlook: -4.4 ppg, +4.9 rpg, and -2.6 apg. Philadelphia trades: SF Aaron McKie (1.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 12.2 minutes) C Samuel Dalembert (5.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 21.4 minutes) SF Kyle Korver (11.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.1 minutes) Philadelphia receives: PG Derek Fisher (10.4 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 4.0 apg in 25.7 minutes) SF Mike Dunleavy (11.6 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 31.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +4.4 ppg, -4.9 rpg, and +2.6 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Golden State and Philadelphia being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Golden State and Philadelphia had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Just a good trade. We don't do the one for Jackson, however, we do all the other trades and take Scalabrine by himself without Mercer in the Cliff trade Here is our lineup: PG: Speedy Claxton/ Luis Flores/ Jalen Rose SG: Jason Richardson/ Mickael Pietrus/ Kyle Korver SF: Kyle Korver/ Mickael Pietrus/ Zarko Caparkapa PF: Troy Murphy/ Brian Scalabrine/ Zarko Caparkapa C: Samuel Damlebert/ Adonal Foyle/ Andris Biedrins We get a three point specialist who can score 20 and who can help J-Rich set a fourth quarter scoring run. Also we get Damblebert to start and we put Mckie on the IR. We end up not doing the trade for Jalen Rose and instead we do this.
I'd definately be in favor of that trade. I don't know how high the Sixers are on Dunleavy. Also, I don't know how good a fit Fisher is in the sixers now that AI is running the point. I think this trade is pretty even and not that far-fetched. Is Aaron Mckie an expiring contract or does he have big contract?
I commented in the trade thread that this trade was unlikely. The Sixers already have a "complementary do-everything" guy who's a bit more athletic and more defensive minded, although a bit shorter, in Andre Igoudala (an odd comparison to be sure, but he and Dunleavy would play the same role). I love Dalembert, but most people do. Big men with shotblocking skills are hard to find. We are always rebuilding, technically. I was against signing J-Rich and Murphy and hoping to try to start fresh in 2005, but what's done is done. You are right to point out that Dunleavy is the best trade chip, but there's no one out there that's worth taking back in return at the moment. Robinson is also a good chip, and as was in the other thread, maybe he will find a new home. After that, we only have the expiring contract of Dale Davis to use. I hate to say it, but once again it looks like we have to look at the draft to get us anywhere, again. I would be for trading some of our players for draft picks and more expiring or reasonable contracts. But, I doubt anything too inventive will happen - no one is going to do the Warriors a favor.
That trade rocks, Piet, but I know how the Sixers are high on Dalembert's potential and Korver's shooting and hustle. That kid is just so sick from beyond the arc, he needs to be sent some get well cards. Plus, he's been impressive defensively with his hustle. Kind of reminds me a little of the things Cardinal used to do. Shoot anywhere on the court, doesn't miss much at the line, and hustles to make a defensive plays happen. My kind of ball player.
I would love to see Korver and Dalembert in a Warriors uniform but i doubt the sixers would take Dunleavy and Fisher in exchange. It's a sad thing, with Speedy, Jrich, Murph we have the start of something beautifull but we dont have the coins to complement them because of those damn contracts on Fish&Foyle
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting DutchWarriorFan:</div><div class="quote_post">I would love to see Korver and Dalembert in a Warriors uniform but i doubt the sixers would take Dunleavy and Fisher in exchange. It's a sad thing, with Speedy, Jrich, Murph we have the start of something beautifull but we dont have the coins to complement them because of those damn contracts on Fish&Foyle</div> We could add in Najera and someone else. I like Najera, but his knee will make him NVE and if we add more to the deal and less for us, they think they have the upperhand in the deal
Marc Jackson got screwed around so much by this franchise he would never return even though St Jean is gone. The Warriors drafted him then ignored him,so he had to go abroad. He came back,played well,and then got jerked around because the front office could not handle it's job. Next he got glued to the bench out of spite although the team needed a guy just like him on the floor. Rather than draft Korver,a proven long range shot,we drafted a guard who never even got in uniform,Zimmerman or whatever. Oddly,we got swept up in the notion Dunleavy could shoot like Korver and pass like Luke Walton,so we burned a high pick on MD and failed to grab Korver or Walton dirt cheap. Stop the insanity! I have followed the Warriors 30+ years and they never cease to amaze me. When they do something right,they find a way to turn it into a fiasco. If trading Babe Ruth brought a curse,what is trading Wilt worth? Some year the Warriors will be in their frequent down cycle when a bona-fide big man is there and they can pick him...and maybe they will get it right
REREM, we got Zimmerman the same year we got Pietrus, in 2002, we didn't have a second round pick. But I agree with much of what you are saying, Marc Jackson was a good player and it was a shame we did this to him. He was the big man we needed back then, as was Dampier last year. And Dunleavy was a bust. He was excepeted to be a star, and he is a good bench player at the most. Korver, man if we had gotten him it would have been great. He could shoot and if he was still here we would have a tandem of Korver and Pietrus. It would be great, defense and shooting in one position, and best of all, we wouldn't be paying Cheany (although he is good off the bench)
Blaming the management for not picking up somebody else's 2nd round gem is really not fair, such as not drafting Korver. Because, that's beyond any human can do, predicting the future. I never liked Marc Jackson, and even when he had fantastic season with us, I never expect him to be more than 3rd string center behind Dampier and Foyle, because while he is a great shooter, he brings zero inside individual/help defense and post up games. He is essentially far worse version of Murphy. But, the management got greedy and tried to salvage whatever they can get. At the end, it really ended up messy...
I agree with Kwan on the 2nd rounder not being the Warrior's fault. I think the warriors general management has had some major problems in terms of judgement (especially judging talent and having a long term plan). They just make bad decisions which result in more seasons of rebuilding and trying to look for an identity and a way to improve. Even the Jazz still had an identity without the Mailman or John Stockton, because they had coach Sloan. To be a player on the Jazz, you either bought into the system or you didn't. Mullin this year just jumped the gun signed the players that might or might not work under Cohan's preferred coach, Mike Montgomery, and then locked up Murphy or Richardson out of fear of losing them to free agency without first exploring whether they fit into our new style of play or not. The management is trying to do too much at times and then too little at times. They don't have the right touch it seems.
