<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> More than a third of the way through the NBA season, most teams have a read on how their off-season moves have worked out. Magic General Manager John Weisbrod acquired 12 players through the draft, trades and free agency. Here's his hits -- and misses: </div> Full article by Brian Schmitz, Orlando Sentinel In short: 1. Tracy and Co for Steve, Cat and Cato: <font color="Green">hit</font> (agree) 2. Bogans for Hunter: <font color="Red">miss</font> (agree) 3. Re-Signing Stevenson: <font color="Red">miss</font> (agree) 4. Gooden, Hunter and Varejao for Battie plus two second round picks: <font color="Green">hit</font> (partly disagree, Battie is great for our team, but we gave up too much; we could've got more for those three) 5. Exposed Pachulia in the expansion draft: <font color="Red">miss</font> (agree) 6. Signed Hedo: <font color="Green">hit</font> (partly disagree, he is a better version of Garrity but we overpaid him imho) 7. Signed Augmon: <font color="Green">hit</font> (agree) 8. Signed Kasun: <font color="Green">hit</font> (agree) 9. Signed Bradley: <font color="Red">miss</font> (agree) 10. Picked Howard over Okafor: <font color="Green">hit</font> (agree) 11. Jameer for a future first rounder: <font color="Red">miss</font> (partly disagree, I think Jameer will be okay for us in the future, he won't become a starting PG but there's no need for that, maybe he needs a better coach as well) 12. Signed Davis to replace Doc Rivers: <font color="Green">hit</font> (disagree, he is the one Weisbrod wanted because he does exactly what Weisbrod wants him to do, but we need a better coach and there're better coaches available) What do you guys think?
I disagree with 11 and 12. Drafting Jameer was a hit imo he has shown he can perform for us when he gets the minutes at the very least he will be solid in the future is Mobley leaves via free agency he might even start next year if we move Francis to the shooting guard slot. Then tell me how signing Davis wasa hit he has horrible offensive plays and make sbad choices now that the magic are losing its become very obvious to everyone. Like you said there where better coaches avaliable much better coaches. Back at the time Riley was thinking about returning to coaching a team after one year out from the side line, Geroge Karl was avaliable, etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">he might even start next year if we move Francis to the small forward slot</div>I stopped reading your post after that quote. We've had the Francis at shooting guard argument before, so you move him to the 3 now? Man, I'd love to see the game when he guards someone like Lamar Odom or Andrei Kirilenko.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">I stopped reading your post after that quote. We've had the Francis at shooting guard argument before, so you move him to the 3 now? Man, I'd love to see the game when he guards someone like Lamar Odom or Andrei Kirilenko. </div> oops typo lol didnt even notice I put that I meant moving him to the shooting guard guess my mind was drifting there obviously Francis is to small to play small forward and we already are solid at that spot with Hill and Hedo. Sorry about not repling sooner I didnt even see anyone replied to this thread.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">oops typo lol didnt even notice I put that I meant moving him to the shooting guard guess my mind was drifting there obviously Francis is to small to play small forward and we already are solid at that spot with Hill and Hedo. Sorry about not repling sooner I didnt even see anyone replied to this thread.</div> I still don't see how that could happen unless you guys get a bigger point guard. Nelson, at 5-10, and Francis at 6-3, would be no match defensively for a backcourt like Kidd and Carter in New Jersey. Think about it, they'd get killed on the boards and Kidd would shoot over Nelson all day.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">I still don't see how that could happen unless you guys get a bigger point guard. Nelson, at 5-10, and Francis at 6-3, would be no match defensively for a backcourt like Kidd and Carter in New Jersey. Think about it, they'd get killed on the boards and Kidd would shoot over Nelson all day.</div> I see your point, but I think that our front court is good enough to make up for the rebounds we woul lose at the point guard slot. I mean Francis is a very good rebounder despite his size as Im sure you know. The 76ers have a small back court with Green and Iverson Green being 6'2" and Iverson 6" and neither average very good rebounding numbers, but they are quick and use that to there advantage with Francis and Nelson we would lose a few rebounds from the point guard slot to bigger point guards, but Francis could probably still put up good rebounding numbers as a 2 guard. We would also gain speed which is something the team needs since they like to run the break a lot. Even if we do lose a few rebounds we rank first in the league in rebounds so far this season if we lost a few rebounds a game we would still be ranked pretty high.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">I see your point, but I think that our front court is good enough to make up for the rebounds we woul lose at the point guard slot. I mean Francis is a very good rebounder despite his size as Im sure you know. The 76ers have a small back court with Green and Iverson Green being 6'2" and Iverson 6" and neither average very good rebounding numbers, but they are quick and use that to there advantage with Francis and Nelson we would lose a few rebounds from the point guard slot to bigger point guards, but Francis could probably still put up good rebounding numbers as a 2 guard. We would also gain speed which is something the team needs since they like to run the break a lot. Even if we do lose a few rebounds we rank first in the league in rebounds so far this season if we lost a few rebounds a game we would still be ranked pretty high.</div> Carter averages about 6 a game, and Kidd 7. That's 13 rebounds right there for you. Francis gets about what, 7? And Nelson? 3? 13-10 rebounding advantage for the Nets. Also, Kidd is 6-4 and Carter is 6-7. A total of 10 inches lost in the backcourt. The Magic might have quickness in the matchup, but would that prevent Carter and Kidd from combining for 40? That would hurt a lot for a team that already has a very leaky defense. About your fast break point, I've been a Rockets fan for all of Mobley's time with the Rockets, and he's never appeared to be slow to me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Carter averages about 6 a game, and Kidd 7. That's 13 rebounds right there for you. Francis gets about what, 7? And Nelson? 3? 13-10 rebounding advantage for the Nets. Also, Kidd is 6-4 and Carter is 6-7. A total of 10 inches lost in the backcourt. The Magic might have quickness in the matchup, but would that prevent Carter and Kidd from combining for 40? That would hurt a lot for a team that already has a very leaky defense. About your fast break point, I've been a Rockets fan for all of Mobley's time with the Rockets, and he's never appeared to be slow to me.</div> Yes Carter and Kidd combine for a lot of rebounds, but then look at there front court how many rebounds do they combine for the rebounds we lsoe in the back court we could make up in the front court. The way you said Kidd might be able to pull up and shoot over Nelson ourbig men would be able to post up the Nets big men and score easily as well. So just like I stated about the rebounds being made up in the front court our front court scoring as well as bench points could also make up for Carter and Kidds points per game. As far as Mobley being not being slow I agree he is not. This lineup move that I stated is a hypathetical move they could make if Mobley leaves via free agency this off season. Though it is unlikly according to Magic management anything is possible so for the sake of debate its just a different way to look at things. I could preffer to keep Mobley, but if he leaves this is one of the possible moves we could make to change the lineup up. Or we could go Francis, Hill, Hedo, Howard, Cato or a ton of other possible lineups.
Talk about post-ups. You don't think Kidd would post up on Nelson every time down the floor? He has an excellent post-up game and he would do it almost every time he touches the ball. Guys like Gary Payton, Stephon Marbury and Bob Sura would kill Nelson down low. About Magic post guys backing up on Krstic and Collins, I also see a flaw in that. Cato is not an offensive player, and neither is Battie, and Howard does not have a developed back-to-the-basket game yet. Besides, Collins is a very good post defender and would challenge every shot, so things will get sort of ugly down low for Orlando. Mobley would never leave for free agency. His best running mate is Steve Francis and there is no reason that Mobley would want to leave his best pal and teammate to go to a team like Atlanta for money. He doesn't strike me as that type of person. Again, my whole argument here is that Nelson cannot start at point if Francis is at shooting guard, and vice versa. Therefore, if you wanna change your idea and say that Turkoglo could move to shooting guard, I guess there won't be anything left to argue about, unless you want to say something provocative again.
Trip, your right, Francis is better than Nelson and that back court weould be small, but Jameer is getting almost 3 rebounds a gam in like half Steve's minutes and he's strong and i haven't seen him ghet posted up or shot over this year, he's a tremendous on ball defender in fact, the only problem that I've seen so far is that he's not getting around screens as well as one would like. besides that he's got almost as many points and assists per minute as steve, without getting in rhythm by starting, yeah steve's better and if he's gonna play the point he should start but i see no astounding disadvantage in starting both of them.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Talk about post-ups. You don't think Kidd would post up on Nelson every time down the floor? He has an excellent post-up game and he would do it almost every time he touches the ball. Guys like Gary Payton, Stephon Marbury and Bob Sura would kill Nelson down low. About Magic post guys backing up on Krstic and Collins, I also see a flaw in that. Cato is not an offensive player, and neither is Battie, and Howard does not have a developed back-to-the-basket game yet. Besides, Collins is a very good post defender and would challenge every shot, so things will get sort of ugly down low for Orlando. Mobley would never leave for free agency. His best running mate is Steve Francis and there is no reason that Mobley would want to leave his best pal and teammate to go to a team like Atlanta for money. He doesn't strike me as that type of person. Again, my whole argument here is that Nelson cannot start at point if Francis is at shooting guard, and vice versa. Therefore, if you wanna change your idea and say that Turkoglo could move to shooting guard, I guess there won't be anything left to argue about, unless you want to say something provocative again. </div> Yeah I do not think mobley would leave either, but knowing teams like Atlanta, Philly, and other teams are intrested in getting him the possibility of him leaving as high or low as it is is a possibility, and my whole arguement is hypathetical I do not think he will leave either just stating some things that might happen if he does. Your points on Cato and Battie are very good about there offensive games, and I will admit I did not take that into consideration, but Cato has had some really big offensive games this year, and Battie has also had some decent offensive games so Im saying they could take some what advantage of Collin and Krstic weather it be in the post or just on the offensive end in general, because Collins and Krestic are of even lower level of offensive talent. You mentioned Howard not being good with his back to the basket that is true however he does not have a ton of offenisve plays designed for him now that I think of it he gets most his points off the offensive glass which is something he could do against the Nets more than the average team. Then your other point about guys like Payton, Sura, etc posting up Nelson that is true to a point, but then again they could do the same to players like iverson, Ford (when he was playing hopefully he returns soon), and others like Earl yet there quick hands often dont let there men get that far into there offensive game plan to allow them to post up. As far as your whole arguement being that Francis and Nelson cant start in the back court visa versa it has been very well thought out and I understand where you are coming to from a point. Yet it was a possibility that was disscussed earlier in the season by Magic fans and a possibility (unlikly) that might happen if Mobley (unlikly) leaves the Magic. As is Hedo moving into the starting rotation just a few points I thought I would bring into light in this thread if this ever happened.
Again, there is nothing to debate about anymore if you are going to change your mind and state that this is all very unlikely. However, one thing I'd like to point out. Cato, I've seen in Houston, and what he is on offense is merely a big body that scores off offensive put-backs and alley-oops from Francis. Battie is also a similar hustle player whose hustle on offense gets him easy baskets. If you are going to give these guys iso's and allow them to take defenders one-on-one, you'll most likely get a miss or a fumble. That's not their games.
