What do you guys think about Montgomery?

when players make blatantly stupid plays, i like to see the coach get pissed...at least a little. it almost seems like he doesn't care sometimes. he just seems to timid to put his foot down, and really run the team. he's not the worst coach in the world, but he's not who i'd have chosen for the team. specifically, i think he should have gone harder on dunleavy during his slump, and more importantly, i dont think he should stand for all the dumb shots we take early in the shot clock. when a player makes a dumb play, let him know! i'm not talking about every time we miss a shot, i'm talking about the ones that shouldn't have been taken in the 1st place. also, i think the refs have given us some bad calls lately, and he doesn't seem to get fired up like he should. i dunno, what you think?

 

I dont mind Monty so much, although I still wish we had kept Muss. I think Muss had an ability to get the most out of his players. I think had we kept Muss, last year we would have won even more games than we did under Monty. I also think we would have started out better than we had so far this year. I also think Baron would have gone nuts because in Muss' system the PGs have all the freedom in the world and would allow Baron to do what he does best; make plays. I think Monty's system might be a little too rigid. I do give Monty some credit though because our players are playing the best defense they have ever played IMO...

 

Monty is a very patient coach and he is still feeling his way through the NBA. If he were a hard nosed coach like Larry Brown, he would wear out his welcome quick. I think that's why Mully brought him in, because he would allow the young players to progress at their own pace rather than having to force the issue. What Monty has is a good supporting cast (Maybe not as good as last year) with Elie and Mitch Richmond and co.

 

Monty is doing fine right now, he's one of the leading contenders for Coach of the Year. Look at where the Warriors were last year, dreadful, no hope whatsoever.

Now, they are near the top of the division, beating teams they should beat and nearly beating the Suns and the Pistons. The number one mark of a good team is beating the teams you should beat. They are doing that.

Let's not get carried away and criticize Monty for not beating the Pistons who are only 14-2 or the Suns who have the reigning MVP playing as well if not better than last year.

Count your blessings.

 

Well, we are 9th at offense and 12th at defense. So far, we didn't have a single win that can say we can challenge for excellence, and we didn't have a single loss that can say we are in danger to miss PO. Since, we did exactly what expected us to do, and our defense has been rather good with same individual, I am content with what Monty did so far...

 

I like Monty. I think he gets criticzed too much for his late timeouts or his weird substitution patterns, but he's a smart coach who actually has a system and a style that could work for slow and fast tempo games (if the players buy into it, start moving off the ball and start sharing the rock more). He got them to play better defense as a team, didn't he?

Before it was all run, run, run, one or no passes, then shoot. It was all 3-point shot or fastbreaks with no way to utilize the midrange game. There's more to basketball than that obviously and you can't win games consistently like that especially when the long ball isn't falling or the other team is crowding the paint. It's why Musselman would lose against teams that could actually execute rather than just constantly push the ball and hope we score. Players wear out too easily if we can't work at a pace and then execute down the stretch.

If we can control the tempo by playing like a team should, make our shots, make quick, accurate, catchable passes, move the ball inside and out, and move off the ball rather than stand around waiting, we could be a very good team. We may find some teams may not respond well to certain plays if the play is run perfectly every single time its called.

Most fans get impatient with the fact players need to adjust to a new coach for a few years before they become the most effective. Most fans get impatient that rookies are beginning to make all sorts of adjustments going from international or college rules to nba rules and learning and finding out what their role on the team is. Also, musselman's style was he had no style, no clearly defined roles (Nick Van Exel griped about this quite a bit) and it was ultimately one of the reasons why he was fired. Monty at least has a style that relies on sets. He leaves the game play up to the players and if not's working out he's got Baron Davis to call out plays to. He's not an in your face coach or one to get on players' nerves, but he's a guy that will treat his guys like men and with respect. I think he's doing fine, but the team needs time to actually execute together as a team. It doesn't happen in one summer or last year when we abandoned it totally in favor of 24/7 run n' gun.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I like Monty. I think he gets criticzed too much for his late timeouts or his weird substitution patterns...</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't call Monty senseless, but he definitely had questionable lineups.</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know if it was because those weird lineups...</div>

Well, stop adding fuel to the fire then...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not a fan of Monty. I understand he was given a horrible team and hes had no experience with the NBA before but his player rotation lacks any logic and he doesnt call timeouts when we need him to. He seems pretty stubborn and is pretty unfair in that he has a very short leash with some players but allows others to consistently hurt the team. He doesnt get in any of the player's faces when they are playing like **** and he doesnt get in the refs' faces either when our team gets abused by them. Only real positives about him are that hes developing our young players rather nicely and hes improved our defense.

I would prefer to have Muss right now. He got the best that he could out of our sad-ass roster when he was here and he was hardly given a chance to succeed. If he had the roster we have now I think our record would be better, he let the PGs have alot of control over the offense which is perfect for Baron but Muss wouldnt just let Baron and Fisher lob up anything they want to (we probably wouldnt even have Fisher and his bloated contract). Oh and on a side note he hated Dunleavy, perhaps we wouldnt have given Dun the extension and maybe even Pietrus would have his job by now.</div>

Its like you copied my post...er, read my mind...

 

If Musselman was such a great coach (and I was a big supporter of his on this board) he'd be hired by now.

Getting in players' faces and the ref's faces is overrated. How many times did Auerbach berate someone? Al Attles? Phil Jackson? Popovich? Those coaches knew that you addressed things man to man without embarassing someone in public.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not a fan of Monty. I understand he was given a horrible team and hes had no experience with the NBA before but his player rotation lacks any logic and he doesnt call timeouts when we need him to. He seems pretty stubborn and is pretty unfair in that he has a very short leash with some players but allows others to consistently hurt the team.</div>
I think Monty has been giving a fair share of the bench time to Dunleavy in favor of Pietrus closing out the games. Also, the reason why Cheaney and Fish probably see more minutes is because they are veterans who actually execute the plays, but unfortunately one of the two actually gets results in the way we want!

Also, I've been told the late timeouts are a result of Montgomery wanting the players to get out of the mess together as a team rather than be bailed out with the timeout. On the road games, it also keeps the crowd out of it like they were "forced" to call timeout. I guess he wants to be like the Pistons where they are calm and they just execute and don't need a timeout.

Montgomery has been playing some really small lineups with Cheaney, Dunleavy, or Richardson at power forward. That I'm really iffy about... Cheaney as much as I like his character, just has no business playing small forward or power forward. I think Cheaney is more useful playing the two position where he has a slight height advantage so that he won't be forced to jack up ugly midrange shots over taller players. This is all Mullins fault for not finding a suitable backup small forward. We could have had that North Carolina guy from summer league.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">If Musselman was such a great coach (and I was a big supporter of his on this board) he'd be hired by now.
</div>

I was asking myself the other day... "Where is Mussleman right now and why is he not a head coach?"

I just dont get it...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">
Also, I've been told the late timeouts are a result of Montgomery wanting the players to get out of the mess together as a team rather than be bailed out with the timeout.</div>

I noticed Phil Jackson does this alot too and no one really criticizes him. I guess Monty is trying to emulate the best coaches which is smart. Personally I think you have to have a veteran squad that is experienced to pull that off. The Warriors are not that team yet so it does not work...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post"> Well, stop adding fuel to the fire then...</div>
Questionable lineups, but I can understand what he's trying to do at least. He knows guys like Cheaney and Fisher can move off the ball really well. He knows they can shoot and force shooters to miss. The one thing we have trouble is when those guys are subbed in he puts in Richardson at small forward, Dunleavy at power forward, and whoever at center. That part I disagree with.

Fisher can hit the big shots, but I want big time rebounders in the game and bug guys who can alter shots. I'd rather sub in Murphy, Diogu, Biedrins, Foyle. I wouldn't put Dunleavy at power forward unless he's planning to attack the basket and be the setup guy.

Also depends on the situation. I'm just naming players, I don't have a game plan or plays for them to run. If I had a game plan I better sure as hell make sure everybody knows what they're supposed to do or if they even know it. If they don't know it or don't know it very well, I just may go to the guys that do or ones that have veteran experience to make the right decisions should something go wrong.

 

Muss is curently an assist coach for Memphis. He was hired with current Griz coach. It really is about timing. Current Griz coach was unemployed for number of years, and same goes with Doug Collins or Hubie brown. Sure, guys like Jackson, Brown, Sanders are selling like a hotcake, because they are proven coaches, but while Muss did a great job in here considering a given talent, he isn't exactly a proven coach. Besides, he left Warriors with bad term, so it will take bit of time to get another job.

Whether Getting somebody's face is overrated or not is up to debate. But bottom line is that Muss managed to overachive with far less talent than our current roster, and without Jamison and Arenas, he won one less game then his first year as a coach. You know a coach lost a team when team quit playing. That never happened with Muss and Warriors were always competitive during the bad situation they could get.

I am content with what Monty did so far, but if I have a choice, I would definitely go with Muss...

 

I really hate these threads because everyone becomes a friggin expert and NBA coach/GM. Give it a rest. Monty is our coach and only the players and organization know if he's a "good" coach.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">The things you are saying about Monty right now are why i'd rather have Muss. Monty plays those shi**y lineups trying to copy the Suns but he just doesnt understand that Cheany, Dun, and J-Rich cant do what Marion does and no one on our team can come close to Amare. Even if the vets understand the plays more we need to play to win and we arent going to win with vets who cant play and players who can play but playing positions that they cant handle.

CR, you make a good point about Monty thinking the players can get out of a bad situation. Monty doesnt understand here either that we dont have players who can do that, he may be partly to blame for the players failing in certain situations because he doesnt take advantage of matchups. In fact he plays right into what other coaches want, going small against Phoenix ended up killing us and playing half court in scrapy games allows inferior teams like the Bulls, Knicks, and Bobcats to win or make the games harder for us to win than they should be.

Also, as CR2 mentioned, shouldn't Monty make sure the players know the playsets? As a coach its his job to make sure the players get this stuff down, this season we only brought in 4 new players (all rookies), shouldnt everyone else have known alot of the plays this season? I know he can't literally force the players to learn the plays but he should command enough respect to get them to, plus we dont have any headcases or malcontents on the roster.

Anyway when you take into account all of the strange decisions he makes and how he copies other coaches who have totally different teams it makes me believe that hes pretty unorganized and doesnt have much of a direction as to where he wants the team to go.</div>
Subbing Patterns

BJM, I'm not a fan of Monty's small ball lineups but obviously Cheaney isn't part of the Warriors future. We don't have to worry about him when our rookies have gotten a better grasp of the offense and getting more experience through observation and practices.

Also, I totally agree with you that Monty should have never played the style that the Suns thrive in, especially without Murphy, who proved this year that he could bang inside a bit against small lineups, rebound like crazy and hit the three when defenders are playing off him.

Also Pietrus would have been money because of his athleticism, defense, 3-point shot, rebounding, and ability to drive with wreckless abandon. Right now, we just aren't that athletic without Pietrus when we want to play small and get some cutters to the hoop.

Also, if Diogu's hand injury is completely healed, I never want to see Cheaney, Dunleavy at power forward ever. Dunleavy gets the numbers but we seem to lose quite a bit when he plays power forward.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is I think we just lack players that are ready to contribute right away either because of lack of physical maturity, experience or because of injury. The minutes, people coming in and people going out, people not 100% healthy may have something to do with the erratic lineups.

And for goodness sakes, we need Taft to get well or Biedrins to start maturing and working on his game because Foyle just sucks, man. The guy should have offered to give discounted services for being promoted as a starter. No way he is a starter. He was better off the bench.

PLAYSETS

I don't know how easy the playsets are to memorize and execute in preseason or between games, but it must be hard to develop them for the NBA and for certain players still learning. Once the season starts, there must be little time.

I still see huge differences between Musselman and Monty, but I just like Monty's style of offense a lot better. We know it's there when more than two passes are being made and nobody is standing around waiting for something to happen. Also, we get an easy bucket off the play just by moving the ball inside and out or side to side.

I'm not entirely happy with Monty, but I have some clue what he's trying to do to make the team more successful as a team. We need more being done than just Musselman's passing and cutting type motion offense. We need more backdoor cuts, more inside play, guys who can really set screens and picks, guys who can move without the ball and recognize where they are and to space out the floor, we need everyone to get involved in some type of scoring so it's 5 on 5, not 3 on 5 or 4 on 5.

We need guys that can finish off the executed plays. Sometimes the Warriors execute but they don't finish. That just sucks. The unfortunate thing is that Montgomery never really had a good starting big man, I think. Foyle is no starter. If you look at the list of Stanford big guys that made the NBA when they probably were a stretch to make the NBA, it's incredible. The Collins Twins, Curtis Bordchardt, Mad Dog Madsen. All those guys were a lot better passers and more polished than Adonal Foyle right now. I think why Adonal seems so valuable is because our forwards are that bad on D. Dunleavy is doing okay defensively, but he gets pushed around like rag doll and gets called for the blocking fouls. He can't give up so much ground like that on body bumps. Also Murphy is the worst help defender on our team. He's gotten better, but he's no elite big when it comes to defense. The best teams have some kind of power player that protects the paint, passes well, and scores high % points plus touch fouls. I'm happy with Murphy's trips to the foul line, but I would like to see him at least block more shots.

 

my biggest gripe with his subbing patterns is that he seems to take out our key players at pivotal parts of the game. for instance, when dunleavy was having a great first quarter (against phoenix i beleive), monty took him out for the 2nd qtr. now, being that i stay in central cal, i have to watch the games in a sports bar with no audio...i heard dun got minorly injured, so that might have had something to do with it, but i wasn't able to hear. point being, i give him the benefit of the doubt, assuming he's more knowledgable than myself...but he doesn't seem to prove himself in the end.

also, there's some grey area between berating a player publicly and sitting idlely and twiddling your thumbs. he doesn't have to go crazy on refs, but show some goddamn emotion...for the fans sake at the very least. the refs obviously won't reverse a call, but they keep in mind when a coach is unhappy with a particular aspect of their calls.

and finally, i too would prefer mussleman with this squad...although i don't know the intricate details of the muss/warriors fall out.

 

There's a reason Muss didn't get snapped up right away. It had nothing to do with his knowlegde of the game. He just rubbed many players the wrong way. He's the type of coach where you either love him or you hate him, perfect for college where you can recruit the type of players that you want, not the right trait when you're dealing with multi-million dollar Egos. I think Monty's doing a pretty good job. The one gripe I have with him is all of the 3's. He should sit guys that don't take the ball at the hoop when the team is having an off day from the outside.