"I believe we have reached a time in your country, similar to what life must've been like under Hitler in the 30's, except we don't realize it because Fascism in your country takes the benign disguise of liberal democracy. There won't be such familiar signs as swastikas. You won't build Dachaus and Auschwitzes. You are not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find yourselves in gray uniforms - stepping off to work ... "Fascism will come," Huey Long once said. "in the name of anti-fascism" - it will come in the name of your security - they call it "National Security," it will come with the mass media manipulating a clever concentration camp of the mind. The super state will provide you tranquility above the truth, the super state will make you believe you are living in the best of all possible worlds, and in order to do so will rewrite history as it sees fit. George Orwell's Ministry of Truth warned us, "Who controls the past, controls the future"." These are some of the most turbulent times in your nation. But what makes up the news? Tom Cruises wedding....Rogain....Viagra.....Martha Stewart. You have become slaves in white collars and the wool has been pulled over your eyes... "An American naturalist wrote, "a patriot must always be ready to defend his country against its government." Well, I'd hate to be in your shoes today. You have a lot to think about. Going back to when you were children, I think most of you thought that justice came into being automatically, that virtue was its own reward, that good would triumph over evil. But as you get older you know that this just isn't true. "The frontier is where a man faces a fact." Individual human beings have to create justice and this is not easy because truth often presents a threat to power and we have to fight power often at great risk to ourselves." Your president has become a broken record who promotes peace and freedom, while secretly being a salesman for the military. These truths have become self evident....and not for the first time. The 60's were a time a great turmoil but the people of the U.S. chose to fight, protest, and attempt to take back what is rightfully theirs. They had good men as leaders....Martin Luther King, John and Bobby Kennedy....who will now lead the fight? The american people have been sleeping for a long time. Sleep aided by a false sense of security and big fluffy pillow called wealth. When will you open your eyes?
ok im just gunna post here cause i found out and im really happy IF THERES A DRAFT I CANT BE DRAFTED WOOOO!!!! lol sorry im just real happy
<div class="quote_poster">thedude9990 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">ok im just gunna post here cause i found out and im really happy IF THERES A DRAFT I CANT BE DRAFTED WOOOO!!!! lol sorry im just real happy</div> i just looked up your profile and your only 16, i always thought u had to be 18 to be drafted. look out for those road side bombs
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">i just looked up your profile and your only 16, i always thought u had to be 18 to be drafted. look out for those road side bombs</div> 18 is the correct age. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When will you open your eyes?</div> Based on the recent elections America's eyes are open again.
<div class="quote_poster">norespect Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, thats the response i get....LAME</div> you need to clarify your point - that is if you have one.... from what i can see it is a rambling rant. i'm surprised you didn't mention GAP using sweatshops and make a reference to OJ in there too.
No, I think there was an overarching point of America's democracy slowly degenerating into a sort of fascism. I'm not sure what to think about it, though. I agree with you, partly. American disinterest in the political process and general inactivity can create an atmosphere that is conducive to a dictatorship. However, I don't have such a doomsday outlook, yet. The country is still divided evenly and strongly on almost all political issues. That's always a good thing, as it makes it impossible for a majority's willingness to follow blindly to override the rights of the minorities.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Based on the recent elections America's eyes are open again.</div> one of the great flaws of american democracy is that u have a two party system, hence little variance in terms of policy amongst the two parties. conversely, most other major democracies have a multi party system, where variance is much more pronounced, e.g. Canada. the question to be posed- is the change tangible or nominal? although, the democrats taking both houses has "great" symbolic significance.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No, I think there was an overarching point of America's democracy slowly degenerating into a sort of fascism. I'm not sure what to think about it, though. I agree with you, partly. American disinterest in the political process and general inactivity can create an atmosphere that is conducive to a dictatorship. However, I don't have such a doomsday outlook, yet. The country is still divided evenly and strongly on almost all political issues. That's always a good thing, as it makes it impossible for a majority's willingness to follow blindly to override the rights of the minorities.</div> I think that most of the disintrest is due to a lack of a real choice. Sure there is minor differences in terms of being republican or democrat, but those are mostly historical. Lets face it, no matter who is in power, things stay the same. And like i've heard you say in the past, partisan politics dominates those few who choose to have an active interest....no real thought and demand for change is happening.
The thing about partisan politics, though, is that it's anti-democratic and it sort of prevents totalitarianism at the same time. It eliminates the whole point of the electoral process and creates a stagnant political system. We know those problems. But, then again, IMO it also creates a division between the population that really can't be bridged and eliminates the possibity of big enough majority that could hypothetically lead to fascism. We can complain about the ridiculous degree of similarity between the Republicans and Democrats, but could you ever see either side co-operating with the other? That's where that divided nature of modern American society comes in. As long as people are generally pretty equally divided on most political issues, I just don't see your scenario playing out.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The thing about partisan politics, though, is that it's anti-democratic and it sort of prevents totalitarianism at the same time. It eliminates the whole point of the electoral process and creates a stagnant political system. We know those problems. But, then again, IMO it also creates a division between the population that really can't be bridged and eliminates the possibity of big enough majority that could hypothetically lead to fascism. We can complain about the ridiculous degree of similarity between the Republicans and Democrats, but could you ever see either side co-operating with the other? That's where that divided nature of modern American society comes in. As long as people are generally pretty equally divided on most political issues, I just don't see your scenario playing out.</div> How is it not playing out? political ideology that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, anti-liberalism and anti-communism. a form of government for a nation state, or for an organization in which all the citizens have an equal vote or voice in shaping policy or electing government officials which is a better description of the US? Just because its not as obvious as say Mussilini's Italy dosen't mean its not happening.
<div class="quote_poster">norespect Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, thats the response i get....LAME</div> You went off on a rant, what kind of response did you want? If your question is "What's wrong with the U.S.A.?" it's not the politics. It's the ignorant people who are dependent on the government to take care of them. It's so easy to blame the government and politicians, but the people complaining are the ones who are too, lazy to do anything about. Most people in the USA are completely oblivious to their own government. Why? because a lot don't have the time to follow closely, and let's be honest, must don't have the intellect to process everything around them. The people who know most about politics are the ones involved, or the retirees who follow closely because they need to make sure their healthcare is affordable and their social security checks continue coming in. Then you have a group of people who choose sides like a sports team. They blindly follow their political affiliation and vote Republican or Democrat straight through based on the name of the party and not the individual issues. Again this goes back to people being ignorant. So why are people ignorant and don't have time to follow politics? 1. Education in America is EXPENSIVE AS HELL 2. Public education in America on average is pathetic because when budget cuts take place education is first to get less funding. Teachers are paid crap, and most have to work two jobs (especially in California) in order to make a decent living. So you don't always have the most qualified people teaching kids at a young age and educating them. 3. So it's created a group of people who aren't educated and have a hard time finding a good job. These people have to work twice as hard just to make ends meet and politics is an afterthought when you have to worry about rent, food, bills, car payments, etc. It's a vicious cycle and the ones making the decisions are the wealthy and old because they have the most time on their hands to vote on issues beneficial to them. In political science I remember reading a direct correlation to the people who actually vote and the people who have the most wealth in America. The wealthy 20% is the 20% who actually vote consistently. The other 80% are just reactionary people who don't care or don't have the time to care and just go with the flow.
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">one of the great flaws of american democracy is that u have a two party system, hence little variance in terms of policy amongst the two parties. conversely, most other major democracies have a multi party system, where variance is much more pronounced, e.g. Canada. the question to be posed- is the change tangible or nominal? although, the democrats taking both houses has "great" symbolic significance.</div> I completely agree. And the other issue are the Green Parties or other Independent parties spend so much energy bickering with one another they don't accomplish anything and get overwhelmed by the financial banking of the GOP and Democrats.
in my opinion, the BIGGEST problem in the U.S. has to do with the flaws of capitalism. YES, it is better than other systems, but that doesn't make it perfect. the gap between the rich and the poor is tragic and needs to close - the poor are given NO health insurance, poor living conditions, crappy jobs if they're lucky - the rich get free passes into Harvard despite getting average grades, get hooked up, make WAY more money than they need and buy a bunch of status symbols that could be used for almost anything else and would be a better use of resources. Then the poor people are told that the key to happiness is if they can SOMEHOW achieve what the rich people achieve and buy all the same material stuff - that that is the key to happiness, which it's not. Happiness comes from within - period. Yet every day commercials and the culture in general attempt to make us FORGET that fact by selling us stuff we don't need. it's good that there exists the OPPORTUNITY for motivated individuals to make money and generate power and wealth - but with that comes a price - the less motivated OR less empowered either by personality, start-up wealth, access to information, education must lose in that scenario. Basically, it's a culture of losers and winners instead of a culture of HUMANS working together. The first things to do would be: 1) Tax the HELL out of highly rich people. 2) Have the PUBLIC decide what the government spends money on - many people would choose schools and health service OVER space program for example. 3) EVERYONE gets health care - period. 4) Everyone can get food stamps - period. 5) Everyone can get BASIC housing - e.g. bunks in a CLEAN, WARM, SAFE building. 6) Raise the minimum wage. Right now the minimum wage is "as low as we can get away with". The minimum wage should be the least amount that is required for a person in that city to live a DECENT life, including some money for basic necessities. I reckon that amount in L.A. or New York is approximately $13 an hour.....
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> The first things to do would be: 1) Tax the HELL out of highly rich people. 2) Have the PUBLIC decide what the government spends money on - many people would choose schools and health service OVER space program for example. 3) EVERYONE gets health care - period. 4) Everyone can get food stamps - period. 5) Everyone can get BASIC housing - e.g. bunks in a CLEAN, WARM, SAFE building. 6) Raise the minimum wage. Right now the minimum wage is "as low as we can get away with". The minimum wage should be the least amount that is required for a person in that city to live a DECENT life, including some money for basic necessities. I reckon that amount in L.A. or New York is approximately $13 an hour.....</div> i love your passion and your intentions are completely laudable but your suggestions make little economic sense. first economic rule- capital is mobile and moves often, e.g. the rich will move to avoid your taxes. second economic rule- the economy is constantly readjusting, finding its equilibrium- e.g. raising the minimum wage would be counteracted by employers who would lay off workers in return. u devote a lot of the government cheese to improving accessibility (e.g. universal health care, education) for the poorest americans. that is done in three ways- increasing user fees (making people pay for it) which obviously isn't an option; u can increase taxes but as aforementioned that can be counteracted; or u could take money away from places like the military
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">in my opinion, the BIGGEST problem in the U.S. has to do with the flaws of capitalism. YES, it is better than other systems, but that doesn't make it perfect. the gap between the rich and the poor is tragic and needs to close - the poor are given NO health insurance, poor living conditions, crappy jobs if they're lucky - the rich get free passes into Harvard despite getting average grades, get hooked up, make WAY more money than they need and buy a bunch of status symbols that could be used for almost anything else and would be a better use of resources. Then the poor people are told that the key to happiness is if they can SOMEHOW achieve what the rich people achieve and buy all the same material stuff - that that is the key to happiness, which it's not. Happiness comes from within - period. Yet every day commercials and the culture in general attempt to make us FORGET that fact by selling us stuff we don't need. it's good that there exists the OPPORTUNITY for motivated individuals to make money and generate power and wealth - but with that comes a price - the less motivated OR less empowered either by personality, start-up wealth, access to information, education must lose in that scenario. Basically, it's a culture of losers and winners instead of a culture of HUMANS working together. The first things to do would be: 1) Tax the HELL out of highly rich people. 2) Have the PUBLIC decide what the government spends money on - many people would choose schools and health service OVER space program for example. 3) EVERYONE gets health care - period. 4) Everyone can get food stamps - period. 5) Everyone can get BASIC housing - e.g. bunks in a CLEAN, WARM, SAFE building. 6) Raise the minimum wage. Right now the minimum wage is "as low as we can get away with". The minimum wage should be the least amount that is required for a person in that city to live a DECENT life, including some money for basic necessities. I reckon that amount in L.A. or New York is approximately $13 an hour.....</div> This is sort of what Communism was based on, but it fails because people become complacent and aren't motivated to work harder and you don't have innovation. I'm against the government providing the basic needs for people to survive. People should learn and be determined to provide for themselves. If I work harder than the next guy, shouldn't I be entitled to more? Taxing the HELL out of the rich doesn't work. 1. Where does the surplus money go? 2. You're not walking yourself through the entire scenario. Deception touched on it, rich people will just take steps to avoid being taxed, or they will cut back their overhead to compensate for the money they give up in taxes. This mean moving factories to other countries or outsourcing labor to other countries, where they won't be taxed. So at the end of the day it's actually worse. The solution is to not tax people on their income, but we should tax more on the resources people consume. There should be higher taxes on gas, energy, natural resources (wood, water etc.), sales tax, and property tax. If you tax more on resources, you will see a decrease in the material waste. For example, increase the price of gas to $10.00 a gallon. With the surplus in money, the government should be responsible for improving the infrastructure of freeway systems and provide better public transportation. It will also force people to consume less gas and figure out more environmental ways to get around. Walking, riding a bike, buying a hybrid car, car pooling etc. Rich people who still want to drive and pay the $10.00 per gallon can pick up the tab because they are the ones consuming more resources than everyone else. Same goes for rich people who want to own 10+ homes. Raise their property tax, and discourage them from buying a summer home, winter home, which is only used 2 weeks out of the year. If they insist on having a glut of homes, then tax them higher and use the surplus to subsidize for lower income housing.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm against the government providing the basic needs for people to survive. People should learn and be determined to provide for themselves. If I work harder than the next guy, shouldn't I be entitled to more? </div> Nobody said you aren't entitled to more, we aren't talking about luxury items, we're talking about BASIC NEEDS. Shelter, Food, Health Care, Education. We don't live in cave man days, it's our duties as human beings that we take care of those who are less fortunate. We live in a first world country, thats what we do. We just have to cut out the abuse of the social safety net. YOU PEOPLE ARE MISSING THE POINT HERE. ALL OF YOU ARE OFF. In a democracy, the govenment is FOR THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE, AND BY THE PEOPLE. We are losing site of what it means to be free....of having real choice.....of having a voice.
<div class="quote_poster">norespect Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Nobody said you aren't entitled to more, we aren't talking about luxury items, we're talking about BASIC NEEDS. Shelter, Food, Health Care, Education. We don't live in cave man days, it's our duties as human beings that we take care of those who are less fortunate. We live in a first world country, thats what we do. We just have to cut out the abuse of the social safety net. YOU PEOPLE ARE MISSING THE POINT HERE. ALL OF YOU ARE OFF. In a democracy, the govenment is FOR THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE, AND BY THE PEOPLE. We are losing site of what it means to be free....of having real choice.....of having a voice.</div> question: did the USSR, the greatest socialist state, accomplish your above, stated goals? the answer is NO, in fact, people starved to death. i think there is a happy medium between the USSR and the U.S.A. and btw- shape wasn't advocating predatory capitalism, he merely felt taxes should be applied on consumption (back-end) rather than income. conceivably the rich would consume more, so they would absorb more of the tax burden. i personally would ladder my tax upwards on high price consumer items like gas guzzling suv's. fyi- american does not equal fascism; fascism is the complete suppression of dissent and the triumph of right wing jingoism. equating the two is laughably absurd, thats probably why nobody responded. your discrediting your entire thread by that assertion alone, coupled with some pedestrian solutions to very complicated problems, u sound more delusional than humanitarian.
<div class="quote_poster">norespect Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Nobody said you aren't entitled to more, we aren't talking about luxury items, we're talking about BASIC NEEDS. Shelter, Food, Health Care, Education. We don't live in cave man days, it's our duties as human beings that we take care of those who are less fortunate. We live in a first world country, thats what we do. We just have to cut out the abuse of the social safety net. </div> I agree 100%. there is a gray area between making it a rat race where it's every man for himself, and if you can't cut it, you're dead and a system where everyone is pampered and makes $60,000 on unemployment. Even with food, health care, education and shelter, people will naturally want to work to get more. This is another one of those extremist American views right up there with the paranoia of the government. You should trust the government to some degree. If you can't trust the power of the people to be stronger than the power of the government if push comes to shove, then owning your own personal AK-47 isn't going to matter much..... When you fail to trust basic humanity, you fail to trust God or the Gods or whoever is in charge, and then you're in a dangerous place.
