between Dirk and Nash. I know votign happened and whatever.This is the way I look at it:Nash is way more valuable to his team than Dirk. If you replace a mediocre PF with Dirk. Like Nocioni or something, the Mavs are still a 40-45 win team.If you replace Nash with a mediocre point guard like Shaun Livingston or something, the Suns are like a 35 win team. My point is that if you take both players off the floor, the Suns would be the obvious worse team, The Mavs have a good enough supporting cast to win 40 games. Everything on that Suns team runs through Nash, if he isnt involved in the offense, there is none.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ May 8 2007, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Am I the only one who thinks Rapfan is enjoying Dirk being eliminated a little too much?</div>You know Ive thought that Nash should've won MVP from Day 1. My opinion just got a bit stronger now.
I wonder what would happen if you put Luke Ridnour or Jason Williams in the Suns starting PG. Not saying they would be just as good, but maybe Nash is being overvalued because his team is perfect for a playmaker. I just wanna see Williams or Ridnour as the Suns PG for a week to see how they do.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 8 2007, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wonder what would happen if you put Luke Ridnour or Jason Williams in the Suns starting PG. Not saying they would be just as good, but maybe Nash is being overvalued because his team is perfect for a playmaker. I just wanna see Williams or Ridnour as the Suns PG for a week to see how they do.</div>How is his team perfect for a playmaker? He leads the team in points.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 8 2007, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wonder what would happen if you put Luke Ridnour or Jason Williams in the Suns starting PG. Not saying they would be just as good, but maybe Nash is being overvalued because his team is perfect for a playmaker. I just wanna see Williams or Ridnour as the Suns PG for a week to see how they do.</div>The team wouldn't be nearly as good with those guys. Maybe with a Jason Kidd we would only be a few games back in the regular season and maybe 1 playoffs series worse.His skills are perfect for this team and this style. Trash like Jason Williams wouldn't help this team as much.
We've had this thread way too many times. In reality the MVP is a regular season award and has absolutely nothing to do with the playoffs. During the regular season Dirk dominated and Dallas had a near 70 win season. Nash also had a great year, the Suns developed as a team, and he really emerged as a future HoF'er. I'd hand it to Dirk.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ May 8 2007, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We've had this thread way too many times. In reality the MVP is a regular season award and has absolutely nothing to do with the playoffs. During the regular season Dirk dominated and Dallas had a near 70 win season. Nash also had a great year, the Suns developed as a team, and he really emerged as a future HoF'er. I'd hand it to Dirk.</div>Im talking regular season too, and dont make it look like Dirk had a way sucessful season, they only won 6 more games than the Suns.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ May 8 2007, 05:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How is his team perfect for a playmaker? He leads the team in points.</div>Because his playmaking skills are so good for the team, they cant double Nash, cause he'll just pass it..so his shots come easier for him.I never said Ridnour or Williams would do just a good job..cause they wouldnt. But I sometimes wonder what if Nash when to another team that didnt have the athletes and shooters like Phoenix has. I still think Dirk should get it...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 8 2007, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Because his playmaking skills are so good for the team, they cant double Nash, cause he'll just pass it..so his shots come easier for him.I never said Ridnour or Williams would do just a good job..cause they wouldnt. But I sometimes wonder what if Nash when to another team that didnt have the athletes and shooters like Phoenix has. I still think Dirk should get it...</div> I dont understand how his shots come easy to him, he is an undersized 6'3" point guard. Also Nash creates shots for hsi teammates, he creates opportunities for them.
Nash deserves it more. He came through in the clutch many times for the suns (dallas, new jersey...) and when he was out for a few games, we lost all of them (might have won one against the Blazers but I don't know). Dirk might be an amazing player, but Nash is much more valuable to the team because without him, we would be a lottery team most likely.
If the playoffs are not taken into account, then it's Dirk. The Mavs were the better team, Nash has already won twice.....Dirk suited his role perfectly...He scored the ball very well...but he didn't force it like Kobe and other superstars.If the playoffs are taken into account, then Steven Nash...MVP's just don't lose in the first round....it's as simply as that....MVP's are guys that lead their teams to the Finals...not guys who choke and lose against 8th seeds...
I find it funny that some of the people who used to bash Nash for winning back-to-back MVPs when he never got past the WCF, and used that as a reason why he shouldn't win three straight MVPs are now saying the playoffs don't matter in MVP consideration...
I think Kobe had deserved it, but between Nash and Dirk, I would pick Nash. Nash is just a better overall Basketball player. He got the suns from last place, all the way to the top, and Dirk, did nothing but make his stats better, and keep the team at the same level. Nash brought a whole new level to the suns, and he makes his supporting cast alot better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (STAT @ May 8 2007, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash deserves it more. He came through in the clutch many times for the suns (dallas, new jersey...) and when he was out for a few games, we lost all of them (might have won one against the Blazers but I don't know). Dirk might be an amazing player, but Nash is much more valuable to the team because without him, we would be a lottery team most likely.</div>omg :HAHAHA: :HAHAHA: :HAHAHA:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (austingriz @ May 8 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I just wanna see Williams or Ridnour as the Suns PG for a week to see how they do.</div>It'd sure be an ugly sight to see. Especially against decent teams.Without a question Nash deserves it more. Mavs during the season had success without Dirk, which makes them so spectacular as a team. Dirk was the best player on the team, so people jumped to the conclusion that he was the only reason for their success. People didn't want to vote Nash and put him in such legendary company with the only other 3 who had won 3 MVPs in a row as well, and I bet alot of voters are regretting it right now. I heard a few on air say that they wish they could've changed their vote to Nash. Too late now isn't it? Should've realized it in the first place. Now they're going to half to present the MVP trophy to Dirk at his house or something. not what they had in mind.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I dont understand how his shots come easy to him, he is an undersized 6'3" point guard.</div>What are you talking about? That's not undersized for a pg at all. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>MVP's just don't lose in the first round....it's as simply as that....MVP's are guys that lead their teams to the Finals...not guys who choke and lose against 8th seeds...</div>I don't know but last year that was a different story. With Kobe as MVP thoughts and Dirk leading his team to the Finals. Obviously Dirk's team was more favored in the first round matchup this year opposed to Kobe's last year but they're distinct similarities.
As a debate regarding the regular season, this is valid.First, one thing many Nash-haters overlook is that this guy means more to the Suns' offense than throwing fastbreak passes. In terms of total activity, Nash is involved in 58.6% of everything the Suns do offensively. That's #1 in the NBA. Dirk Nowitzki is not even in the top 20 - he is #45. So, Steve Nash factually does more for his respective offense than Dirk Nowitzki.Steve Nash also assists on 46.8% of his team's baskets. Upon statistical evaluation, Steve Nash factually does more for his respective offense. He also factually contributes more to his teammate's scoring from a straight-forward aspect. (Influence, diversions, lurking is not taken into account)When we look at their skills, Steve Nash has an undeniable edge. As Bill Simmons insightfully stated, Dirk Nowitzki is a very good scorer - but he is not a great one (unless you call 24.6 PPG great, and then something is painfully wrong with you). Nowitzki is not even a very good passer, he is not a great rebounder (unless 8.9 RPG is great, and then something is wrong with you), and he isn't even a good defender.Steve Nash is a great passer. Screw statistics, just watch this guy play - he knows how to pass the basketball. Steve Nash is a good, if not very good scorer. San Antonio tried making this guy stop passing, and he ended up shooting 11/18 for 31 points - his team was competing, and I believe leading when he went out with that nose gash.So Steve Nash effects the game in more ways with Nowitzki, as he is great at one thing and very good at another. Nowitzki is simply a very good scorer and mediocre in every other aspect. Steve Nash also has more to do with his team's offensive production.These three things are unarguable, and if you tried doing so I'd be so bold as to call you pig-headed. Seriously, think about it - what does Nowitzki do better than Steve Nash in regard to team success?Once more why don't I: Steve Nash factually does more for his team offensively, both are terrible overall defensive players, Steve Nash can change a game more than Nowitzki, Steve Nash in unquestionably a better leader than Nowitzki (Nowitzki screams; Nash encourages), and the Suns and Mavs are at the top of the NBA standings.Come on, this isn't even close. Hey, I'm probably a tad biased in favor of Steve Nash, but the statistics, the results, and common sense says I'm correct none-the-less.[1] www.82games.com[2] www.foxsports.com[3] www.nba.com/playoffs2007
yes... without reading all of your book KMart(.) I agree that nash deserves it more(.) Dirks contribution in that last game against GS really made my decision(.) He looked like a rookie that game(.)
