Who's going to be our fifth starter when the dust settles?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, Nov 23, 2020.

?

Fifth starter?

  1. Melo

    18.8%
  2. Jones Jr.

    39.1%
  3. Trent Jr.

    6.3%
  4. Giles

    4.7%
  5. It will change depending on the opposing team

    6.3%
  6. Other (specify)

    3.1%
  7. Hood

    10.9%
  8. Collins

    10.9%
  1. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That would be nice but Harkless & Aminu could actually make 3’s at a respectable clip.
     
  2. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I voted Gary Trent but I’ll be happy if it’s not Melo.
     
  3. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    54,831
    Likes Received:
    35,767
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    N.E.P.
    Melo will be on the court when it counts, trust me! Better plan for it.
     
  4. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    25,953
    Likes Received:
    3,962
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    UPS
    Location:
    V-Town Baby
    That would be easily the smallest 1-3 in the league. Maybe ever?
     
    THE HCP likes this.
  5. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    54,831
    Likes Received:
    35,767
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    N.E.P.
    Starters, yes. But not normal rotation.
    That would easily go to Zeke/Dumars/Microwave combo.
     
    blazerkor likes this.
  6. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    41,988
    Likes Received:
    35,034
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    If DJJ can knock down 3s at 35% or better, it should be him.

    If not, it should probably be someone else.
     
    RickyJoe likes this.
  7. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Those are 3 very good defenders and career 40%, 36%, 35% from 3. Perfect compliments for Lebron and AD. Sadly, the Lakers are a very well constructed team, IMO the most lethal team Lebron has played on because his role players are exactly what they need to be - play D, hustle, make open 3’s.

    Blazers made nice moves with needed focus on defense, but we are IMO no where near contenders unless “contenders” means having some slim outside chance. We’re vastly improved from last year but I doubt as good as two years ago with RoCo and Jones being mediocre and poor 3 point shooters.
     
  8. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    3,322
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah because Chief and Moe were lights out assassins weren't they? This shit is ridiculous. Lets see how everyone plays. Moe shot 17.5% from three the year before he got here, he got steadily better while here until the year we made the WCF where he was below 28% from three. Chief was a career 27% three point shooter before he got here, then he shot up to 36% the first year here. He was shooting well when we got to the WCF accept he was under 30% in the playoffs that year. Jones is 28% from three for his career coming in (that's better than either Chief or Moe).

    Playing in this offense with Stotts giving you the green light and Dame setting you up for wide open threes changes your shooting percentage... it just does. I am telling you that Jones has a sweeter stroke than either Moe or Chief and he will hit 34% or better from three this season and keep teams honest and the floor spaced. He's also going to get to the hole and finish, his career fg% is over 50. I don't even know why we're having this conversation about RoCo, the guy is as solid of a 3 and D guy as there is in the league. Chief's career three point percentage is 33.5 and Moe's is 32.5... RoCo's is 35.6. Off of the bench we might have some shooters too Gary 40% career 3pt fg%, Hoodie 37% from 3 and Melo is just under 35% from three for his career but was 38.5% for us last season. Seriously why don't people look at the numbers before they post this garbage?
     
    mook likes this.
  9. kjironman1

    kjironman1 The big dog around here.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    15,672
    Likes Received:
    16,357
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ironworker
    Location:
    Portland
    [​IMG]
     
    UKRAINEFAN and Orion Bailey like this.
  10. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    21,539
    Likes Received:
    18,393
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BS. He is a penny pincher. youre not finding any gourmet gravy train in that fridge. It will be canned alpo all day long.
     
    Tince likes this.
  11. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    8,838
    Likes Received:
    694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SF
    The fact that Aminu & especially Harkless couldn't actually make 3's at a respectable clip (career 3pt% of 0.335 & 0.325) was the PTB's weakest link during their time here. Every postseason opponents would take their chances leaving them wide open to double CJ & Dame. They might have a hot game or two where the Blazers would look like world beaters, but they couldn't consistently capitalize on (again) wide open looks.

    Robert Covington has a career 3pt% of 0.356. On top of that, he knows thats his offensive role averaging 6.6 attempts a game excelling as a catch and shoot perimeter threat. In the playoffs his career 3pt% is 0.422. It's a pretty safe bet that he'll be a more respectable perimeter threat then either Harkless & Aminu were. Having just watched youtube clips of Jones Jr. shooting (all makes! lol), his form shows why thus far he's not been a perimeter threat. Though not as pronounced as the Ball Bros. he comes across his body with his shot making his stroke tough to repeat. Hopefully he's reworking his mechanics, but getting comfortable with a new shot could take years. I'm more optimistic that Little or Collins becomes a legit perimeter threat this season to make teams pay for giving too much attention to their sweet shooting guards.

    STOMP
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  12. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,290
    Likes Received:
    1,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Harkless has a career .289 playoff 3pt%. Aminu career playoff % is actually .391 which is great, but he was only .294 in 2019 playoffs, while also a free agent with multi year offers. Having one of Aminu or Harkless would have been fine, the Blazers should have tried to keep one last season, we could have just played lineups with other shooters or played that guy more against backups that aren't trapping.

    The problem was the duo of both of them as starters for the start of halfs and end of games. Also pairing them with another wing such as Turner who couldn't shoot either.

    Yes I think RoCo should be a better shooter than either Harkless/Aminu. If DJJ doesn't improve his 3pt shot the team can work lineups around that, it may just means he has to play certain times of the game, with specific teammates or against specific opponents. Of course we'd prefer everybody is a 37% 3pt shooter. The problem is centers who are don't have Nurkic other skills, wings that are either make the max or don't have DJJ defense.

    One wing in the rotation that can't shoot 3's such as DJJ is fine, all our other wings can shoot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
    STOMP likes this.
  13. James lamphear

    James lamphear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2018
    Messages:
    4,973
    Likes Received:
    3,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Jones will be the 5th option with that's starting lineup. Just like Zach was last year so I say about 7 attempts a game. The main guys I that starting unit is the same Dame CJ Nurk.
     
  14. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    11,581
    Likes Received:
    10,040
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Master of Xen Foro
    Location:
    La Grande, OR
    I really wish that 3fg% was divided into 3 categories:
    contested 3fg%
    open 3fg%
    wide open 3fg%
    (and throw out any 3s taken in the last 1.5 seconds of the shot clock). We would then have a much better insight as to what is happening on the court.

    My eye test is that Aminu was left wide open - drawing only last minute grasping defense.
    My guess is that this has not been the case with RoCo, so while Aminu (.335) and RoCo (.356) have percentages in the same ballpark, they are in fact, not comparable.
     
    BBert, STOMP and Pinwheel1 like this.
  15. kjironman1

    kjironman1 The big dog around here.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    15,672
    Likes Received:
    16,357
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ironworker
    Location:
    Portland
    Maybe even add "Wide Open Corner Three? That is the one that Aminu shot constantly and missed way too often.
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  16. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,290
    Likes Received:
    1,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I haven't seen those although teams have sport vi tracking that probably has that..

    I think you can just go by 3pt attempts per game (or per 36 mins). The shots get much harder as you try to take more shots per game.

    Per 36 minutes
    Aminu 3.3
    Harkless 2.9
    Covington 7.9

    Playoffs per 36;
    Aminu 5.5
    Harkless 4.0
    Covington 6.3
     
    mook and Wizard Mentor like this.
  17. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    8,838
    Likes Received:
    694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SF
    Agreed that having 3 legit perimeter threats is vastly more effective then 2. Exhibit A would be the Warriors in their heyday with Steph, Klay & Durant who'd most often team up with two non 3pt threats Iguadala & Draymond. I wish Jones had some of those two's playmaking abilities.

    STOMP
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  18. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't see the point in looking and Aminu & Harkless career numbers when they shot 1,700+ threes a Blazers and combined for 35%. That's respectable enough. Harkless was kind of all over the map but he did shoot 35% in his last 3 years as a Blazer. Covington might very well be an equal or greater threat than Aminu, which is exciting, but he only shot 33.5% last year on a large sample size so I'll wait and hope and see. Jones at 29% is a whole other story. But yes, it is conceivable Jones can fix his shot. Easier than fixing a poor defender so I'd rather have a good defender with a shot problem than vice versa.

    As far as trapping, it's a bit fuzzy in my mind by now, but I don't recall that the problem was so much Aminu & Harkless missing open shots as it was Dame not getting rid of the ball crisply enough to actually have a legit 4 on 3. There was too much time for the D to rotate back. Versus the Pelicans we got destroyed by the trap yet Aminu & Harkless shot a combined 42% from three on 9 shots per game. It was others who shot 20% from 3 also on similar volume (Collins, Turner, Napier, Connaughton ).
     
    WesleyMatthews likes this.
  19. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Chief and Moe shot 35% from three as Blazers which I called "respectable" not "lights out". RoCo could very well end up being a better 3 threat than Aminu, or he might not - he shot 33.5% last year on 480 shots and only 31.5% on the Rockets. Jone's is a 28% three point shooter until proven otherwise. He might drastically improve from 3 but I wouldn't bet on it. Melo is a -3.6 BPM so the more he plays, the less likely we are to be as good as two years ago.
     
  20. WesleyMatthews

    WesleyMatthews Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,290
    Likes Received:
    1,509
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agreed!

    Dame does not do a good job getting rid of the ball on traps. He holds it as if he's trying to figure out where guys are going to be coming from, or to try and split doubles, or take a long 3. He needs to stop thinking and make the immediate quick pass so another teammate can go. CJ in game 5 vs the Lakers was much better.

    Dame is obviously beyond great... but he gets far to much of a pass from fans and critics for his shortcomings on traps.
     
    bobf likes this.

Share This Page