Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Who's the MVP??By Bill Simmons8. Chauncey BillupsThe best player on the best team this season. But can you really call anyone "the best player" on a team that works solely because they play so well together? For instance, "24" wouldn't work without Kiefer Sutherland as Jack Bauer; nobody else could play that part. But "Lost" relies on a number of quality actors, all of whom play a role in the show's success to varying degrees: Jack, Sawyer, Locke, Kate and Hurley (that's their starting five). Personally, I think Sawyer is the best character, not just from an acting standpoint, but from an entertaining/interesting/dramatic standpoint). He's the Rasheed Wallace of the group, someone who doesn't need to carry every episode, brings a ton of stuff to the table and takes nothing off (and they're both funny as hell). As for the rest, Locke is probably Ben Wallace (does all the little stuff); Kate is Tayshaun Prince (the token chick/fifth man); Hurley is Rip Hamilton (totally underrated, always rises to the occasion); and Billups is Jack (the leader of the group).So here's the question: Does the show work because of Jack, or does it work because of the group as a whole? Obviously, it's because of the group. Well, the same goes for the Pistons; calling Billups a bonafide MVP candidate demeans the contributions of everyone else involved. Would they slip that much with Jason Terry in Billups' spot? Probably not. (Of course, if Jack ends up taking down The Others, and Billups takes down every contender this spring, maybe we have to re-evaluate.)7. Chris PaulThe great John Hollinger covered Paul's case in his "third greatest season by a rookie guard ever" column yesterday, even if he didn't give Magic's rookie year nearly enough credit. Remember, Magic was playing out of position that season because of Norm Nixon, and he and Bird DID save the league and all, and he DID average nearly a triple-double in the playoffs and play one of the 10 greatest games in the history of the NBA Finals. (Whatever, we'll have to settle this over fisticuffs at the company barbecue in July.) For the purposes of this column, Paul had the lamest supporting cast of any candidate, played his position about as well as it can be played, and his team overachieved mainly because of him. Let's say the Hornets finish with 40 wins ... how many would they have won with Deron Williams or Raymond Felton instead of Paul? Twenty? Fifteen? What about the baggage the Hornets had coming into the season, what with the hurricane in New Orleans, new digs in Oklahoma City and everything else? What about how much this team depended on Paul from night to night, even though he was a rookie? I just don't see how anyone can list him lower than seventh. And yes, that screaming is the sound of everyone from Atlanta. Just give them a few seconds. 6. Carmelo AnthonyThe best clutch scorer alive -- seven game-winners and a game-tying shot just since Jan. 1, as well as the best clutch numbers of anyone in basketball over the past three seasons (according to 82games.com) -- to the point that we should be using his full name like we do with every other famous assassin. If your life depended on somebody making a game-winning shot in the last 10 seconds, would you pick anyone BUT Melo? I sure wouldn't. So there's that. He also carried a division-winning Nuggets team that dealt with numerous injuries and numbers problems, a significant trade in mid-February, a glaring lack of outside shooters, and Kenyon Martin gimping around like Ken Reeves on the Bulls. And it's not like he's in his prime; actually, he's only seven months older than LeBron. Maybe there have been some minor flaws here and there -- he takes some quarters off, doesn't rebound enough, acts out sometimes -- but nothing that can't be fixed down the road.Here's the thing: I'm starting to wonder if LeBron-Wade-Carmelo could become the most important sports rivalry of this generation. Each is great in his own way, each brings something different and unique to the table, and each seems to feed off what's happening with the other two guys. For instance, the Wade-LeBron duel two Saturdays ago (LeBron finished with 47-12-10, Wade with a 44-8-9) wasn't just the most thrilling game of the season, it was a significant experience for anyone who truly gives a <Censored> about this league. Here were two fantastic young players absolutely KILLING it, doing everything they could to win the game, bringing out the absolute best of one another, raising everyone to a higher place.This was like Pacino and De Niro sharing a scene in "Heat," only if they made the movie together in 1974. This was like Pearl Jam and Nirvana saying in 1992, "Screw it, let's go play at the same tiny club in Seattle and see who the crowd enjoys more." This was like nothing that's ever happened before. I haven't stopped thinking about it for three straight weeks. Could this be where we're headed -- magical game after magical game, like those Celtics-Lakers games in the mid-'80s, only for 12-15 years? What's the ceiling here? Do we even have a ceiling? Ali had Frazier, Bird had Magic, Russell had Chamberlain. Is it possible that LeBron, Wade and Carmelo all have each other? And do you realize that these guys are a combined 66 years old? Maybe I'm biased as an unabashed NBA junkie, but I truly believe that the collective emergence of LeBron, Wade and Melo could eventually become the most significant thing that ever happened to this league -- bigger than MJ, bigger than Bird and Magic, bigger than everything. I guess we'll see. 5. Steve NashKudos to him for increasing his scoring and seamlessly integrating seven new teammates into Phoenix's offense; in many ways, he was better than last season. He's the only current player whose unselfishness seems to transfer (almost by osmosis) to everyone else on his team. On the flip side, he's even worse defensively than last season; just in the past two months, I watched Shaun Livingston, Delonte West and Kidd completely outplay him in separate games, capped off by Billups simply CREMATING him in Detroit two Sundays ago. Would an MVP ever get decimated like that by someone who plays the same position? Please.Put it this way: Nash was a cute choice last season, mainly because none of the other candidates stood out, and I could see why someone would have been swayed. (It was like ordering one of those fancy foreign beers at a bar, the ones in the heavy green bottles with the 13-letter name that you can't pronounce, only someone else is drinking it, so you say to yourself, "Ah, screw it, I'm tired of the beer I always drink, lemme try one of those.") But this year? I'm not saying he should be ignored, but if you actually end up picking him, either you're not watching enough basketball or you just want to see a white guy win back-to-back MVP's.4. Dwyane WadeEven as recently as four weeks ago, he was my MVP pick ... and then he started struggling, and so did Miami, and now he's hurt. The next three guys just passed him. It's that simple.3. Dirk NowitzkiAveraging an astonishing 29-and-10 since the All-Star Break (the only two forwards to average 29-and-10 since the ABA/NBA merger were Bird and the Mailman). He's the only All-Star on a 60-win Dallas team. He shows up for every game. He's an underrated rebounder and superior free-throw shooter in crunch time. He solved the whole "Let's stick a smaller, more athletic guy on him!" strategy by punishing defenders with a variety of herky-jerk moves on the high post. He's German, which makes him fun to dislike whenever he starts sneering at his teammates or arrogantly celebrating after a big bucket. Out of any over-25 player, he made the biggest leap this season; it's hard to imagine anyone meaning more to his team. Quick Nowitzki story: Clips-Mavs, Monday night, tie game, 18 seconds left. Nowitzki is 5-for-18, but we all know he's getting the final shot -- right at the top of the key, where he's been thriving all season. Naturally, we assume that Dunleavy will send a second guy at him, since you never want to get beat by a franchise guy. So Dallas brings the ball up and feeds Nowitzki on the high post, only Chris Kaman (a gawd-awful defender) switches onto him. And we're waiting for the second guy. And we're waiting. Hell, even Dirk is waiting. Never comes. Finally, with the clock winding down, he puts a quick move on Kaman, upfakes him and drains a 16-footer to win the game, followed by a goofy gesture in which he coldly pulled his jersey out with both forefingers, almost like dueling shotguns. And then his teammates practically chest-bumped him to death.Here's the point: I wasn't even remotely surprised. Not by any of it. (Well, except for Dunleavy being dumb enough to single-team Dirk with Kaman.) There are franchise guys, and then there are FRANCHISE GUYS. This season, Nowitzki added the caps. 2. LeBron JamesTwenty-five months. That's how long it took before one of the Cleveland coaches (and there have been three since LeBron joined the team) made the astounding realization, "Hey, instead of sticking LeBron in the corner or the wing and having entire possessions where he never touches the ball, maybe we should run the offense through him!" In the words of Colonel James, "Oh, you think so, Doctor?" Really? You want to stick him at the top of the key and run the offense through your best playmaker, as well as someone who's completely unstoppable whenever he decides to drive to the basket? You think that might work?Now he's putting up 33-8-7 every night, which makes me wonder what would have happened had he handled the ball that much from Day 1. And it's not a very good Cavs team -- nobody plays defense, nobody rebounds, Ilguaskas doesn't fit in at all (terrible signing), even the alleged "shooters" (Damon Jones, Donyell Marshall, etc.) rarely make open shots. Replace LeBron with Mike Miller, throw in the Hughes injury and this was probably a 27-win team. Instead, they'll win 50. The intriguing subplot: LeBron is figuring out how to take over down the stretch, personified by what happened on Saturday in New Jersey (17 in the final quarter). At least once a game, he does something so explosive, so athletic, so incredible, you can't even believe it happened. The last time I remember feeling this way about a professional athlete was Bo Jackson, who wasn't just great ... he stood out. I attended a spring training game once when Bo scored from third base on a 180-foot pop fly -- standing up. It was awesome to watch. Well, LeBron reminds me of Bo. On those plays when he says, "Screw it, I'm scoring" and heads toward the basket like a runaway freight train. He's like a young Barkley crossed with a young Shawn Kemp crossed with young Magic, but with a little Bo thrown in. Out of anyone in the league, he's the only player who can cripple the other team with one monster play.There's a perfect example that Hollinger wrote about on Sunday, but screw it, I'm retelling the story. On Saturday afternoon, I TiVo'ed the Nets-Cavs game because the Nets had won 14 straight and officially reached "record all our games" territory. LeBron completely took over the game in the fourth, capped off by one of the most startling plays I have ever seen: Trailing in the final two minutes, LeBron seized some open space in transition and pulled the Runaway Freight Train move, careening toward the basket as one Net reached in and hacked him, followed by another Net on the other side reaching in and fouling him, and then a third guy just to make sure he wouldn't score. LeBron was cradling the ball, taking two giant steps toward the basket and absorbing those karate chops. BOOM-BOOM-BOOM. Any normal human being would have either lost the ball or lost their balance and tumbled to the ground.Well, LeBron kept going -- almost like a tight end bouncing off three safeties in the open field. As the last guy walloped him, LeBron jumped in the air (where did he get the strength?!?!?), regained control of the ball, hung in the air, hung in the air for another split-second, gathered the ball (at this point, he was drifting under the right side of the rim), and finally unleashed a righty layup that banked in. The shot was so BLEEPING INCREDIBLE, the referee practically jumped in delight as he called the continuation foul. The Nets were done after that. He ripped their hearts out, MJ-style. Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. I couldn't believe it. I still can't believe it. And he's 21. Even more unbelievable.So why isn't LeBron James the 2006 MVP? Two reasons. First, he hasn't committed himself on the defensive end yet. It's not even an effort thing, I think he's just been poorly coached. Bird and Magic couldn't guard anyone either, but they were always great help defenders, and Bird actually controlled games on that end like a free safety (just watch Game 6 of the 1986 Finals, you'll see what I mean). Defensively, LeBron is a complete non-factor.More importantly, the next guy has just been a little bit better ... 1. Kobe BryantYou don't know how much this kills me. Actually, you probably do. But Mamba passes all three MVP questions ... Question No. 1: When remembering this season 10 years from now, which player will pop into your head first? Answer: Kobe. The dude scored 62 in three quarters against Dallas, then 81 against Toronto a few weeks later. He's about to become the fifth player in NBA history to average 35 points a game (along with Wilt, MJ, Elgin and Rick Barry). He made up with Shaq. He made up with Phil. He made up with Nike. He appeared on the cover of Slam Magazine with a Mamba snake wrapped around him. He did everything but make the obligatory cameo on "Will and Grace." No player took more abuse from writers, broadcasters and radio hosts this season, but Kobe seemed to feed off that negative energy. It was almost Bondsian. And just when it kept seeming like he might wear down, he'd toss up another 50 just to keep you on your toes. Kobe was relentless. That's the best way to describe him this season.Question No. 2: In the proverbial giant pickup game with every NBA player waiting to play, who would be the first player picked this season?Answer: Kobe. He's the best all-around player in the league, the best scorer, the best competitor, and the one guy who terrifies everyone else. Plus, if you DIDN'T pick him, he would make it his mission to haunt you on the other team.Question No. 3: If you replaced every MVP candidate with a decent player at their position for the entire season, what would be the effect on their teams' records? Answer: If you replaced Kobe with a decent 2-guard (someone like Jamal Crawford) for the entire 2005-06 Lakers season, they would have won between 15 and 20 games. I can say that in complete confidence. Terrible team. When Smush Parker and Kwame Brown are your third- and fourth-best players, you shouldn't even be allowed to watch the playoffs on TV. Throw Kobe in the mix and they're headed for 45 wins. So he's been worth 25 victories for them. Minimum.In a weird way, Kobe ended up getting what he always wanted: The Lakers completely revolve around him. He gets to shoot 25-30 times per game. He gets to take every big shot at crunch-time. He gets all the credit. Nobody else on the team dares to challenge him. And even better, because he lucked out with the only possible coach who could make this cockamamie situation work, his supporting cast kills itself to make him look good. Basically, he's Elvis and everyone else is Joe Esposito. And it's working! That's the crazy thing. Now they're a sleeper in the West -- seriously, do you think Phoenix wants any part of them in Round 1? -- and have the only player in the league who can win a playoff series by himself. He's the Black Mamba, he's Kobe Bryant, he's the 2006 MVP, and since we finally have that settled, I will now light myself on fire.</div>I just put his top 8 people, the article is a lot longer. go HERE for the rest of the article. its very good in my opinion.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Yeah I kinda agree with that. I think Lebron and Kobe make the biggest impacts on their teams but at the same time don't know if they can make as big of an impact on a better team. For example they have the best +/- ratio in the league for their team but if you put them on a better team their +/- ratio will drop.Btw on 82games.com I got these rankings for +/- fyi on the top candidates of MVP.L. James 16.6K. Bryant 14.6Nowitzki 11.9Nash 8.7Wade 15.5. Billups 11.8So based on this Wade and Lebron are the best 2 players. The shocker is how low Nash is rated on here.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Great read on Kobe. Im kinda leaning more on Kobe now to win. But im still on Nash.
Re: Who's the MVP?? I wrote this in the Lakers forum, but I'll repost it here. It only addresses the Kobe part.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:serif"><u></u></span></span> http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...=simmons/0604141. Kobe BryantYou don't know how much this kills me. Actually, you probably do. But Mamba passes all three MVP questions ...Question No. 1: When remembering this season 10 years from now, which player will pop into your head first?Answer: Kobe. The dude scored 62 in three quarters against Dallas, then 81 against Toronto a few weeks later. He's about to become the fifth player in NBA history to average 35 points a game (along with Wilt, MJ, Elgin Baylor and Rick Barry). He made up with Shaq. He made up with Phil. He made up with Nike. He appeared on the cover of Slam Magazine with a Mamba snake wrapped around him. He did everything but make the obligatory cameo on "Will and Grace." No player took more abuse from writers, broadcasters and radio hosts this season, but Kobe seemed to feed off that negative energy. It was almost Bondsian. And just when it kept seeming like he might wear down, he'd toss up another 50 just to keep you on your toes. Kobe was relentless. That's the best way to describe him this season.[/b]</div> Scoring 81 points or 62 points and having people remember this year because of him isn't a good enough excuse for him to win an MVP. I'll remember last year's NBA season because of Ron Artest and Ron <span style="color:red"><span style="color:#000000">Artest only. Should he be MVP? 2 years ago I remember the NBA season because of Shaq and Kobe fued and their dismantling by the Detroit Pistons. Should either of them be the MVP? That is a lame reason.</span><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><u></u></span></span> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Question No. 2: In the proverbial giant pickup game with every NBA player waiting to play, who would be the first player picked this season?Answer: Kobe. He's the best all-around player in the league, the best scorer, the best competitor, and the one guy who terrifies everyone else. Plus, if you DIDN'T pick him, he would make it his mission to haunt you on the other team.</div> <span style="color:red"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:serif"><u></u></span></span></span>Ummm. . . .So the MVP should be picked based off of pickup game skills. Last time I checked Rafer Alston was a playground legend. Where is he in the NBA? Decent PG. I would take LeBron or Wade a few other players in a heartbeat if I didn't pick Kobe. Again lame reason. Equating playground basketball to NBA is ridiculous. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><span style="color:red"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:serif"><u></u></span></span></span>Question No. 3: If you replaced every MVP candidate with a decent player at their position for the entire season, what would be the effect on their teams' records?Answer: If you replaced Kobe with a decent 2-guard (someone like Jamal Crawford) for the entire 2005-06 season, they would have won between 15 and 20 games. I can say that in complete confidence. Terrible team. When Smush Parker and Kwame Brown are your third- and fourth-best players, you shouldn't even be allowed to watch the playoffs on TV. Throw Kobe in the mix and they're headed for 45 wins. So he's been worth 25 victories for them. Minimum.[/b]</div> I sort of agree with this except Nash. I don't think I could put a mid-level PG in Nash's spot and still have the Suns be as good as they are. You think if we replaced Nash with say Kirk Hinrich they'd be as good? Not even close. Kobe has played great and deserves strong MVP consideration but not for the reasons Simmons says. Simmons should continue rooting for the Clippers and leave real basketball to the rest of us. - Yes I'm kidding. . .Anyway. . . My candidates are:NashKobe......Then everyone else. LeBron is having a great year, but it was really only his teams late 12 wins out of 13 (or whatever it was) that made LeBron a true candidate. I'd take Nash again.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Because, 10 teams in the NBA are better than Kobe, maybe that's why? Detroit has a good chance of having an MVP on their team, but I really believe LeBron should go down. For a 50-win team in the East is maybe, what, a 40-win team in the West?ALL Eastern Conference Teams vs. Eachother: 371 Wins - 371 LossesALL Eastern Conference Teams vs. West: 198 Wins - 252 Losses-Two Above Statistics by Waqas (me)So obviously, I have some good credibility. With those two above statistics, a 100% Eastern Team would convert into an 88% Western Team. That means Cleveland, 48-31, would be 44-38 as a Western Team.That puts down LeBron, and plus, nobody ever seems to notice Big Z has been an All-Star two of the past four seasons. The only All-Star talent Dirk has is Stack, and it's been kind of a while since Stackhouse has made the All-Star roster. Even on San Antonio, there are 2 All-Stars, and Detroit has FOUR All-Stars, lol.... Phoenix has two... even Miami has two...Only MVP Candidates with All-Star Method:-Elton Brand-Kobe Bryant-Allen Iverson?? (if you think he's a worthy candidate. I just put him in here)-Dirk NowitzkiNow, let's look at the best teams in the league. These teams are:-Dallas Mavericks-Detroit Pistons-Phoenix Suns-San Antonio Spurs(sorry, Nets fans, but the Nets are like the Mavs of last season: a very good team that's not going to win it)Now, we'll take the best players from those four teams...-Chauncey Billups-Tim Duncan-Shawn Marion-Steve Nash-Dirk Nowitzki-Tony ParkerSo, taking the All-Star Method and the Best Teams method, Dirk has been the only player on both methods.I'm going to try using a new method. Not sure if it'll work, but I'm going to check Nash's stats vs. Marion's stats...Shawn Marion's Efficiency: 28.8 (3rd)Steve Nash's Efficiency: 24.14 (11th)Alrite, so Steve Nash isn't the most EFFICIENT player on his team!! Now, let's use another method. I'm going to take the leading MVP candidates' teams... (only top 5 NBA teams included)-Miami Heat-Dallas Mavericks-Detroit Pistons-Phoenix Suns-San Antonio Spurs(sorry, Nets fans )... and find out the talent gap between the best player and next-best player...-San Antonio Spurs: Tim Duncan is the best player on the team, but Tony Parker is also an All-Star-Phoenix Suns: Steve Nash is a leading MVP candidate, but not the most efficient player on his team, and not even the only All-Star on his team!-Detroit Pistons: Behind Chauncey Billups, he has not, ONE, not TWO, but THREE All-Stars behind him!!-Miami Heat: Shaq is an All-Star who's going to end up as the center on the All-NBA 2nd Team behind Yao Ming, but Wade is an All-Star who's going to end up as one of the two guards on the All-NBA 2nd Team, behind Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash, and Kobe Bryant.-Dallas Mavericks : Dirk Nowitzki vs. Josh Howard = -80 Games vs. 57 Games-38.2 MPG vs. 32.8 MPG-48.2% FG vs. 46.7% FG-110-269 3FG vs. 26-62 3FG-89.9% FT vs. 73.6 FT-9 RPG vs. 6.4 RPG-2.8 APG vs. 1.9 APG-1.77 SPG/BPG Total vs. 1.60 SPG/BPG Total-26.6 PPG vs. 15.8 PPG
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Apr 16 2006, 04:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah I kinda agree with that. I think Lebron and Kobe make the biggest impacts on their teams but at the same time don't know if they can make as big of an impact on a better team. For example they have the best +/- ratio in the league for their team but if you put them on a better team their +/- ratio will drop.Btw on 82games.com I got these rankings for +/- fyi on the top candidates of MVP.L. James 16.6K. Bryant 14.6Nowitzki 11.9Nash 8.7Wade 15.5. Billups 11.8So based on this Wade and Lebron are the best 2 players. The shocker is how low Nash is rated on here.</div>What a surprise, Nash's +/- is worse than the rest. Did you find Brand in there somewhere? I'd like to see that.I thought we were done with these threads.
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I thought we were done with these threads.</div>Yes what's the difference between this thread and the countless other MVP threads scattered throughout the board? Can't we just keep one official thread.
Re: Who's the MVP?? I agree with ROK.. but is Dirk even in the mentioning.. im pretty sure.. the media has brought it down to..KB8Nashand Bron
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>6. Carmelo AnthonyThe best clutch scorer alive -- seven game-winners and a game-tying shot just since Jan. 1, as well as the best clutch numbers of anyone in basketball over the past three seasons (according to 82games.com) -- to the point that we should be using his full name like we do with every other famous assassin. If your life depended on somebody making a game-winning shot in the last 10 seconds, would you pick anyone BUT Melo? I sure wouldn't.So there's that. He also carried a division-winning Nuggets team that dealt with numerous injuries and numbers problems, a significant trade in mid-February, a glaring lack of outside shooters, and Kenyon Martin gimping around like Ken Reeves on the Bulls. And it's not like he's in his prime; actually, he's only seven months older than LeBron. Maybe there have been some minor flaws here and there -- he takes some quarters off, doesn't rebound enough, acts out sometimes -- but nothing that can't be fixed down the road.</div> :flex:
Re: Who's the MVP?? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ArizonaFan @ Apr 16 2006, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What a surprise, Nash's +/- is worse than the rest. Did you find Brand in there somewhere? I'd like to see that.</div>Elton Brand's rating is 12.7Shaq is 11.5Gasol is 8.2The only flaw in this rating is it determines on how good your backup is and not all teams are equal so it would change if Kobe went on a better team. Barbosa is a great backup along with Eddie House so that partially takes away Nash's +/- ratio.
Re: Who's the MVP?? And that's what I was arguing all the time. Nash isn't as important as other players are to their team becaused of the people he has to back him up. There is no flaw. Who you have backing you up is a big part of how important you are to the team. Nash's +/- was 4 or 5 points higher because for most of the time there was no one to help out from the bench.
Re: Who's the MVP?? Many, and it has been a frustrating experience, though now I really don't mind if Nash wins. The more awards the better. The Suns have got a shot at a lot of them.
