I don't know Jeff Foster. I'm sure he's a good father for his children; husband for his wife; member of his community; and part of his church's constituency. I also don't blame Jeff Foster. He's doing exactly what he needs to do to stick in the league another season and provide for his family. But why the hell hasn't the NBA formally cracked down on Jeff Foster's style of play? He's a talentless hack except that he's really good at hitting opposing players in their heads. Foster has extended his career by shortening the careers of others. The NBA is a business and businesses are directed to make money. And that makes the fact that Jeff Foster still has a roster spot all the more inexcusable. Jeff Foster hasn't sold a ticket for the Pacers or any opposing team his entire career. Derrick Rose and Luol Deng and all of his past victims, and the victims of players of his ilk, do sell tickets. It seems so simple. Get rid of the Jeff Fosters of the league and replace them with the extra years you'll get from the Chris Webbers and Allen Iversons (and Scottie Pippens and Michael Jordans for that matter). I'd like to hope the NBA would realize its folly before it has a Sydney Crosby moment. Someone plz explain.
this is nothing new--'playoff basketball'. In the 80s the Pistons sent Rick Mahorn and Bill Laimbeer to cheapshot Jordan and Pippen. In the 90's Pat Reilly sent Knicks thugs Anthony Mason and John Starks to do the same to give a basically untalented team a chance to stay in the game. Stacy King and Scottie Pippen are right--at some point the Bulls need to send a message back---logically Danny Grainger, Indy's best player needs to go down very hard (Brian Scalabrinie ?) somebody who could take a flagrant without hurting the team. If the officials let it go the players need to handle it, and every team will do it till Rose or Deng gets hurt. Stacey King did that for the Bulls in the 90's after the Cav's Danny Ferry pulled Scottie flat on his back on a breakaway--Somehow Ferry got a breakaway early in the next game but was slammed by King, who didn't even look up---just stomped off the court cuz he knew he'd been tossed.
Hey welcome! Don't be a stranger. Do we know you from another board? I agree with you that enforcers are for the most part nothing new, but that doesn't mean the NBA should continue to allow their behavior. Teams sent their henchmen after Jordan and Pippen, as you mentioned, and the Bulls had henchmen to respond. That didn't work though did it? None of those players had the career longevity that they could have had if the NBA was more wary about cutting out cheap shots. The NBA is better about it now but I think if they took further steps they would have a better product. There are a couple of differences that separate Jeff Foster from the henchmen of the past that are interesting in and of themselves but don't really change my point. Foster aims for players' heads, probably because of what we now know about how damaging head shots can be. I don't remember as much of that in the past. We have an example in the NHL of how a head shot can cripple a league. I also think there was a steroids era in the NBA in the '90s that changed the physiques of many players, especially the enforcers. I'm sure most of the players in the league are still taking some sort of PEDs but not the same type of mass builders that they were in the '90s.
Hard hits are a part of playoff basketball. They always have been and probably always will be. I'm sure Jeff Foster isn't trying to shorten anyone's career. Oh, and he's also a good rebounder (6.9 rpg in 20:41 for his career). I feel like that's a solid reason for him to be in the league.
Exactly correct. Foster is an exceptional rebounder. This said, there's a difference between hard fouls and flagrants. I've seen more than a couple of fouls in this series that have been called flagrants in the playoffs before. I strongly suspect that the Bulls front office is in touch with the league office about this.
I heard on the radio this morning everybody complaining about the fouls, and also about Thibodeau's reluctance to moan about them. To be honest, I like his approach, though it's a bit scary. The officials will call it as they call it. The players should not get so involved in reacting to the calls (I'm looking at you, Kirk Hinrich!) that they lose their focus. It's better to be tough minded than tough guys with their mouths and waving their hands in mock disbelief.
Head shots are head shots. They speak for themselves. If Foster wasn't trying to shorten Deng's and Rose's careers he wouldn't be aiming for their heads. Your point about Foster's rebounding is duly noted. Fine. Let him rebound. But if he makes the plays he did yesterday, suspend him for the rest of the playoffs.
I don't think Foster's trying to shorten anyone's career. He's trying to intimidate...get opponents to pull up rather to take it to the rim or to flinch when they do try to go up strong. I suspect that he also wouldn't mind if his actions caused the Bulls to retaliate and turn the game into a brawl....the Pacers have a better chance in a brawl. This said, if that elbow to Deng's head (clearly intended to hurt) had caught the eye socket, serious damage could have been done. The refs and the league office need to get a handle on this. Unchecked, these things tend to escalate.
I don't know that Foster is some sort of goon. The Pacers team is clearly frustrated, and they weren't exactly getting much of a home court advantage. The Bulls shot 27 FTA to Indiana's 18. And it sure looks like they had Rose flustered and ineffective (4-18, 2 AST, 5 TO), yet he gets to the FT line 15 times. I've generally thought of Kurt Thomas as an elder statesman, good guy type. Yet there was a game a few games ago where he committed a very hard foul and then stood over the guy getting up. The players watch the highlights and games and remember these things. What goes around comes around, so they say. Playoffs basketball has always been tougher and more physical with hard fouls. We saw Pippen slammed into basket supports by the bad boy Pistons at least once. When the team figured out how to play against the more physical teams, they won and kept winning. It is this team's turn to learn that lesson.
I do think of KT as a guy with a bit of a mean streak. Not the modern-day screaming and chest thumping but quietly nasty and angry. Perkins has a similar quality. In the NFL Richard Seymour comes to mind. As for Foster, hes a great rebounder, pretty decent defender, decent athleticism, great hustle, and hes 6'11. Additionally, he plays fairly smart and he'll do the little things to win games. Yes, being a hard ass and gooning people helps teams win, especially when they lack talent and especially in the playoffs (this applies to playoffs in all sports IMO). I think Foster is much less of an intimidator than a guy like KT (who isn't a prototypical intimidator either) and I wouldn't say Foster is a goon, but he does whatever it takes to help the team and gooning is exactly that. As long as the Bulls keep taking it without retaliation it will be a problem. Bogans, KT, Brewer, Asik, etc. need to return the favor on Granger or Hibbert. If you're afraid of escalating conflict then you've already lost. IMO in the playoffs theres often bound to be one team constantly trying to intimidate (*cough*Celtics*cough*) and typically to the point of being dirty/bush league. If no one on the opposite team steps up and shows they're not going to take that shit then I have a hard time seeing that team winning. You guys can get past the Pacers because the difference in talent is immense but I'm not so sure in series beyond this. None the less, I think the importance of retaliation may be even more important for future series because if the Celts, Heat, Magic, etc. think that they can punk you they'll try ten times as hard to be physical, dirty, get under your skin, etc. Its not necessarily right but you see it in every sport, especially the NBA and NHL. The playoffs are a different animal from regular season play and goonery is a part of it. Refs are incompetent and let borderline dirty stuff go on. Its up to the stars to show they're not backing down but its up to the fringe rotation guys to "keep it even" as hockey officials say.
I think if you asked Foster why he delivered the cheap shots he would say they came in response to Boozer's elbows to Hansborough. I thought the way yesterday's game was called was generally very favorable for the Pacers -- that happens to a home team in the playoffs. The refs missed that elbow though. It should have been a whistle on Boozer even if Hansborough instigated the contact. I see retaliation as only increasing more incidents, not lessening them. Denny, you have to check your memory. Thomas' posturing came after he drew an offensive foul on Glen Davis, not after he dished out a hard foul. 9:56 Glen Davis loose ball foul (Kurt Thomas draws the foul) 62-76 9:56 62-76 Kurt Thomas technical foul (1st technical foul) I knew people would raise Kurt Thomas in this thread and I think it misses the point. Kurt Thomas is dirty not dangerous. No one gets injured by grabbing hands and jerseys, posturing, flopping, and pushing off for rebounds. That's the difference between a journeyman and a hack.
I get what you're saying, but don't agree. Because the Bulls have a sizable talent advantage and a big lead, they have a lot to lose by retaliating. I doubt the Bulls are going to lose 4 games in a row to the Pacers, and a nasty tiff could result in suspensions that last into the next series. Not cool. And this team has proven not to be soft. We play great defense and have not lost our focus all season. We've probably played closer to our ceiling than any other top team, so I think the chances of us getting rattled are small. We'll play hard no matter what, so I don't think there will be adverse signaling effects in later series. I hope we keep our cool.
Goonishness aside, I've always liked Jeff Foster as a player. He's been an important rotation player his entire career despite not having remarkable physical attributes. He's an underrated athlete, and a very good rebounder. I'd say his career so far has a lot in common with Kurt Thomas. I'd guess he's a very smart player and teammate. Guys with his pedigree don't stay in the league as long as he has without those qualities.
And well they should. If they say that the foul on Deng wasn't flagrant, they're full of shit...nothing more, nothing less. Sometimes a nasty-looking foul is the result of the natural follow-through of a legit "crash the shooters' arms" hard foul. Foster snapped his elbow to the top of Deng's head in a way that was not a natural follow-through. I'm sorry, but no one can convince me that this wasn't flagrant and probably flagrant 2. Also, the follow-throughs to the face of DRose on several fouls were probably flagrants.
I'd love to have a Foster (or *the* Foster) on the team. I'd love to have an irritable interior intimidator like Perk on the team. Thats a facet of basketball that the Bulls are missing.
