What in the hell is paxston doing? The bulls need some players that can legally drink. I have nothing against cartwright or our current coach because they dont have anything to work with. FIRE the GM yesterday. I say give our coach the power to choose players.how do we have 2 seven footers and no defence? why in the heck is Nocioni ,deng and gordon all in at the same TIME!!!!!? Ahhhhhhhhh! This is so frustrating as a Bulls fan. 0 and MF'N 4?! Thats unacceptable! I pray that they will turn it around sometime during the season. We gave up Miller, Artest, Brand, Crawford, Rose, Marshall and now we have more rookies on the floor than Vets. If anyone has any opinion on what the bulls need to do to get better Voice you opinoin Here. ONE(love) Go Bulls!
Damn? I guess there are no Chicago fans on this board. lol what happened to the glory years. WAAAAAAAAAAH! WAAAAAAAAAAAAH! ALL YOU BULLS FANS GET FROM UNDERNEATH THOSE ROCKS AND DISCUSS THESE DISFUCTIONAL BULLS.
I am curious, but was it necessary to go and do all that whining? Paxson, for one, is not a terrible GM. He knows what he's doing. It's not his fault that his team can't work as a cohesive unit, and you also can't totally blame that on Scott Skiles. The players have to make an effort to play as a team, you can't just coach that. You want to know why those guys were on the court at the same time? It's because those are some of their better players. The Bulls have a lot of young talent and they need to figure out who to start, stuff like that. For me, it's not frustrating. I realize the team is young. Young teams make a lot of mistakes. And considering this group has 4 rookies (Duhon, Deng, Gordon, Nocioni) as four of their main players, it makes it less frustrating. I realize that young guys make mistakes and sometimes their egos are too big. That's part of the problem on why they can't play as a cohesive unit sometimes. But, for me, I don't look at all the problems. I try to look at the positives. The fact that we were leading at one point in time is a positive. It's just a matter of being able to close out games, and when you're a team that's gotten used to losing, it can be extremely hard to do so, and they've shown that this season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">I am curious, but was it necessary to go and do all that whining? Paxson, for one, is not a terrible GM. He knows what he's doing. It's not his fault that his team can't work as a cohesive unit, and you also can't totally blame that on Scott Skiles. The players have to make an effort to play as a team, you can't just coach that. </div> Traded Rose and Marshall for crap. Turned down Marshall and 7th pick for 4th pick(which we'd have selected Wade). Traded Crawford for essentially crap. Drafted Ben Gordon, a PG. A PG. Ben Gordon is a PG. Gordon is a PG. But we play him out of position, which is leading to problems. Perhaps its due to the fact that Ben Gordon is a PG? Hmmmm..... Hardly a stellar record. We should not have drafted Gordon. We should have drafted Iguadola. Him, Nocioni, and Deng would have manned our wing great. Hinrich, Iguadola, Deng, Nocioni, and Chandler could have formed a damn good defensive unit down the stretch of games. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> For me, it's not frustrating. </div> I guess we have different opinions here. 6 years of losing seasons qualifies as frusturating to me. 6 straight years of not fielding a team that can compete qualifies as frusturating to me. Trading away our best players, (Brand, Miller, Artest, Crawford) qualifies as frusturating to me. I am curious as to what it would take to get you frusturated? THAT- COUPLED with the fact that Skiles seems to not want to start Deng, our biggest offensive weapon as of now.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Young teams make a lot of mistakes. And considering this group has 4 rookies (Duhon, Deng, Gordon, Nocioni) as four of their main players, it makes it less frustrating. </div> 6 straight years of using this excuse. When can we begin to hold players/management accountable?
I'm no Bull fan but I think I feel your frustration. The idea of building around Chandler and Curry is I think just a crappy idea. Both have tremendous potential but both have been very lazy to go get it. I'd say it'd be a step forward in the right direction to trade away both for future draft picks or sth before they demand contract extension. Because if you sign them long term, no other team would be interested, with possible exception of Curry. The rookie Deng shows a lot of potential but the question as to how can he carry a team remains but he is definitely a keeper. And for God's sake, please change the uniform, it doesn't look bad, but it reminds everyone that they're a losing rather than a winning team. Let's "Denverize" the Chicago Bulls. Change the uniform, change the design, change the arena outlook, change the atmosphere, change the spirits, change the winning attitude... and go get the right players.
Man, i think that the whole bulls situation would be much better if Jay Williams didnt get injured. That guy was one of a kind.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">Traded Rose and Marshall for crap. Turned down Marshall and 7th pick for 4th pick(which we'd have selected Wade). Traded Crawford for essentially crap. Drafted Ben Gordon, a PG. A PG. Ben Gordon is a PG. Gordon is a PG. But we play him out of position, which is leading to problems. Perhaps its due to the fact that Ben Gordon is a PG? Hmmmm..... Hardly a stellar record. We should not have drafted Gordon. We should have drafted Iguadola. Him, Nocioni, and Deng would have manned our wing great. Hinrich, Iguadola, Deng, Nocioni, and Chandler could have formed a damn good defensive unit down the stretch of games. I guess we have different opinions here. 6 years of losing seasons qualifies as frusturating to me. 6 straight years of not fielding a team that can compete qualifies as frusturating to me. Trading away our best players, (Brand, Miller, Artest, Crawford) qualifies as frusturating to me. I am curious as to what it would take to get you frusturated? THAT- COUPLED with the fact that Skiles seems to not want to start Deng, our biggest offensive weapon as of now.... 6 straight years of using this excuse. When can we begin to hold players/management accountable?</div> I did not agree with trading off Rose and Marshall. I will say that now. However, seeing as how they were going nowhere fast last year, what's the point of keeping around two people in Marshall and Rose who don't want to be there? There wasn't one. Hence why we got rid of them. Ben Gordon is not a point guard. He may be the size of one, but he's not one. He's a shooter, not a pass first guy. That's why they play him at the shooting guard spot instead of point guard. They drafted him because he could shoot and do other things, not because he's a great passer. They start him at shooting guard because he is capable of playing it. He played it in college and will likely continue to do so in the NBA. And Iguodala was considered a project. He is not a great shooter right now. He was a Josh Smith-esque player---that is, picked based on his athleticism and potential. Gordon was the much safer pick in that situation, as he was NBA ready. That's why they drafted him. We traded Crawford for the reason of freeing up cap space for next offseason. He didn't want to be in Chicago and management didn't want him there, so something had to be done. They traded him away for crap, you are right. Frank Williams, Mutombo, who got traded as you know, etc. Yea, you're right, they are crap. But, they got all expiring contracts, so that's going to free up cap space to potentiall make a run at a star next offseason. Next, I pose a question for you. What is wrong with Kirk Hinrich? The kid has been phenomenal for us. He can shoot the three, he's a great passer, he can score, do it all. He's been a great leader for us, even though it sometimes seems they don't have one. So, if you can explain to me what was wrong with picking him, I'll listen. But, quite frankly, I love the kid and am happy as hell with him. I'm also curious as to why they traded off people like Brand, Miller, Artest, etc. I know why they traded Crawford, but the other guys, dunno. They traded off Brand to get Tyson and Eddy in the draft. Why they did that, god only knows. However, Tyson and Eddy are each still young and they have each shown signs of being good, they just can't stay consistent. 6 straight years of losing, yea, it can be frustrating. I do sometimes get angered by the constant losing, but, then I realize that, no matter how pissed off I get about it, I can't do anything about it. So, for me, being frustrated does me nothing. I just simply hope for the best if they succeed, they succeed, if they fail, they fail. I can't do a damn thing about it, therefore, it's not all that frustrating to me. And no, they should not start Deng. Starting Nocioni is the smart thing to do. He's more NBA ready than Deng is, granted it sometimes doesn't show with his shot selection and stuff like that. But, the fact of the matter is this. Nocioni played for 4 years overseas professionally. Nocioni has been to the Olympics. Deng only has one year of college experience at Duke under his belt. Quite frankly, I'd start Nocioni and continue to start him until he proves he can't handle the job.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post"> Next, I pose a question for you. What is wrong with Kirk Hinrich? The kid has been phenomenal for us. He can shoot the three, he's a great passer, he can score, do it all. He's been a great leader for us, even though it sometimes seems they don't have one. So, if you can explain to me what was wrong with picking him, I'll listen. But, quite frankly, I love the kid and am happy as hell with him. </div> I've got nothing against Hinrich. I wish him the best of luck. But you do not throw away a chance at getting someone of Wade's caliber for Hinrich. Wade is a game changer. Hinrich isn't. And he most likely won't be. Hinrich is going to be a steady PG for us for the next decade. There is nothing wrong with that, if thats what you need. But we needed more. We needed that game changer. We needed Wade. Paxson lacked the balls to do it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And no, they should not start Deng. Starting Nocioni is the smart thing to do. He's more NBA ready than Deng is, granted it sometimes doesn't show with his shot selection and stuff like that. But, the fact of the matter is this. Nocioni played for 4 years overseas professionally. Nocioni has been to the Olympics. Deng only has one year of college experience at Duke under his belt. Quite frankly, I'd start Nocioni and continue to start him until he proves he can't handle the job.</div> By that account, we should play Duhon more, and Deng less. Duhon does have four years of college experience. Deng only has one. You play those who are playing well. Deng has been the best player thus far for us. He should be starting(and finishing). Nocioni is shooting an abmyssal percentage. Our whole team is, for that matter. Deng has been shooting good. Not great, but good. Its important for our team to start games strong so we don't have to come back from behind every game. You do not win many games that way. How do you build a lead? By scoring. Who gives us the best chance, between Nocioni and Deng? Deng. Its not even close.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">By that account, we should play Duhon more, and Deng less. Duhon does have four years of college experience. Deng only has one. You play those who are playing well. Deng has been the best player thus far for us. He should be starting(and finishing). Nocioni is shooting an abmyssal percentage. Our whole team is, for that matter. Deng has been shooting good. Not great, but good. Its important for our team to start games strong so we don't have to come back from behind every game. You do not win many games that way. How do you build a lead? By scoring. Who gives us the best chance, between Nocioni and Deng? Deng. Its not even close.</div> Deng may give us the best chance, but, I have a thought. Like I mentioned earlier, with Deng coming off the bench, we get instant offense. We might not get that if we take Nocioni off the bench. That's why I'm saying keep him on the bench until Nocioni works his way out of the starting 5.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">Deng may give us the best chance, but, I have a thought. Like I mentioned earlier, with Deng coming off the bench, we get instant offense. We might not get that if we take Nocioni off the bench. That's why I'm saying keep him on the bench until Nocioni works his way out of the starting 5.</div> We cannot win games from behind consistantly. Thats not a recipe for success. Meaning, we need to jump out early, with Deng. Our offense looks at its best with a Duhon/Hinrich/Deng as our 1,2,3. Its what we made our comeback against the Nets with.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">We cannot win games from behind consistantly. Thats not a recipe for success. Meaning, we need to jump out early, with Deng. Our offense looks at its best with a Duhon/Hinrich/Deng as our 1,2,3. Its what we made our comeback against the Nets with.</div> That's one game. Not a season. Just because they do that in one game means nothing. If that's the case, why don't you start that lineup? In my thoughts, you need to start Nocioni. He has the ability to do what Deng is doing and more. Just give him time. He, like any other Euro, has to adjust to American style of play.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">That's one game. Not a season. Just because they do that in one game means nothing. If that's the case, why don't you start that lineup? In my thoughts, you need to start Nocioni. He has the ability to do what Deng is doing and more. Just give him time. He, like any other Euro, has to adjust to American style of play.</div> Yes, that's just one game. But it was because of Deng, Hinrich, and Duhon's court vision, leadership, and basketball knowledge, coupled with talent, that led the comeback. Our offense is crisp with them in the game. Make no mistake. Nocioni needs to start? Why? We need his 36.7% shooting that much?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">That's one game. Not a season. Just because they do that in one game means nothing. If that's the case, why don't you start that lineup? In my thoughts, you need to start Nocioni. He has the ability to do what Deng is doing and more. Just give him time. He, like any other Euro, has to adjust to American style of play.</div> I want to know why you stated Nocioni is the better offensive player. Explain that to me. Because everything I have read and seen suggests otherwise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, that's just one game. But it was because of Deng, Hinrich, and Duhon's court vision, leadership, and basketball knowledge, coupled with talent, that led the comeback. Our offense is crisp with them in the game. Make no mistake. Nocioni needs to start? Why? We need his 36.7% shooting that much?</div> He does need to start. He's more prepared to play this game. He's been playing professionally for four years or so, so in that aspect, he's more ready than Deng. He's been playing people who could be in the NBA, and some that probably are now, for the last four years. He's been going against talent as good as or better than him now for a while. He knows what it's like to play professionally. Deng, on the other hand, has not played adults yet. The NBA is much more physical than college. I'm not sure if his body is ready to be a starter at the NBA level. He's fresh out of college, for that matter, freshman year. If you only stay that long, you can only learn so much and prepare yourself for such a short period of time. I realize Duke is great and all at preparing players, but, he might not be PHYSICALLY ready to play the game. He has shown he is ready to play, as he's been able to contribute at a great rate. But, is he physically ready? Is he prepared to play the full 82 game season? Prepared to fight through possible injuries? Prepared to fight through the aches and pains of losing, something he wasn't accustomed to til now? That's what I'm wondering. I'm willing to bet Nocioni is more than ready to all of this, and aside from that, also ready to contribute.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">I want to know why you stated Nocioni is the better offensive player. Explain that to me. Because everything I have read and seen suggests otherwise.</div> Lets see here.... The guy is atheletic, moreso than Deng is. He's a good slasher. Good on the post, as that's where he got a good majority of his points over in the Euro leagues. He can shoot the outside shot. He's not a bad passer. The only reason I think you doubt this is because of his dismal shooting percentage. But he is a good offensive player. Deng is not a great slasher, doesn't present great quickness. He can post up though due to his size. He's got a good jump shot, that's been shown. Overall, they're almost on par with eachother in terms of ability. The big reason I do give Nocioni the nod despite his offensive woes currently though is the experience. You want to have experience out on the court, and he brings that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">He does need to start. He's more prepared to play this game. He's been playing professionally for four years or so, so in that aspect, he's more ready than Deng. He's been playing people who could be in the NBA, and some that probably are now, for the last four years. </div> It doesn't matter if he is more ready or not, Deng has been playing better. I don't care who has more "experience." Whoever plays better should be starting and finishing. Deng has been playing better. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He's been going against talent as good as or better than him now for a while. He knows what it's like to play professionally. Deng, on the other hand, has not played adults yet. </div> Again, this doesn't matter. Deng has been playing better so far.
You know, I'm just going to drop the argument. We'll never come to an agreement, and that's being shown right now. We each have our own opinions. You have good points, I will give you that. But, it's not changing my opinion. I believe Nocioni starts until he proves that he doesn't deserve it at all, and quite frankly, 4 games into the year, you can't tell anything. So, on that note, I'm dropping this conversation for my own sake, cause I don't need to get into a heated argument with a fellow member and end up getting in trouble for it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">Lets see here.... The guy is atheletic, moreso than Deng is. He's a good slasher. Good on the post, as that's where he got a good majority of his points over in the Euro leagues. He can shoot the outside shot. He's not a bad passer. The only reason I think you doubt this is because of his dismal shooting percentage. But he is a good offensive player. Deng is not a great slasher, doesn't present great quickness. He can post up though due to his size. He's got a good jump shot, that's been shown. Overall, they're almost on par with eachother in terms of ability. The big reason I do give Nocioni the nod despite his offensive woes currently though is the experience. You want to have experience out on the court, and he brings that.</div> He can shoot the outside shot? Huh? 32.7% from the field. 27.3% from 3 pt. I guess we have different standards of good shooting. It does NOT FREAKING MATTER IF NOCIONI BRINGS EXPERIENCE IF DENG IS OUTPERFORMING HIM! Nocioni has rushed a majority of his shots lately. He has been struggling offensively. He is not better on the offensive end than Deng.
