How long will Domin-ayton be a Trailblazer?

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How long will Domin-ayton be a Trailblazer?

  • He will be traded this offseason

    Votes: 2 4.4%

  • He will be traded during next season

    Votes: 5 11.1%

  • Gone after next season

    Votes: 14 31.1%

  • Here for a while

    Votes: 15 33.3%

  • Plays out his whole contract here

    Votes: 9 20.0%
  • Total voters
    45
beast crnjo said:
LA wasn't fast either. We paired LA with Lopez and had a pretty good team. Some people totally ignore the benefits that a big man brings.

The 3pt shot is not the end all be all. The highest % shot is till in the paint, by a long shot.
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I'm not trying to argue, just informing you of the narrative.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Actually wouldn't surprise me if you genuinely believe this - you admit in this last draft (and seems like in most drafts) you'd prefer many more second round picks to guys taken in the first round or lottery.
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Way to avoid answering the question.
 
People forget how little we got him for. The Suns weren't stupid. Ayton's like a tram(am)poline in The Simpsons.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
People forget how little we got him for. The Suns weren't stupid. Ayton's like a tram(am)poline in The Simpsons.
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The suns just wanted aging superstars lol. Not a good barometer.

Either is our team, but alas.
 
inconceivable said:
Grant's rebounding (or lack thereof) irritates me. It's frustrating.
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And he turns the ball over a lot, fumbling and taking terrible shots that have no chance of going in.
 
Chris Craig said:
And he turns the ball over a lot, fumbling and taking terrible shots that have no chance of going in.
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I think the rebounding is just something that Jerami isn't good at but the turnovers and shot selection is just a matter of him playing out of position... not in terms of what forward spot but in terms of being a 1a or 1b scoring option instead of a third or even fourth complementary scoring option like he should be, with the usage that goes with that.
 
Ayton is fine with a rookie center to back him up...Cronin talked to him right after we drafted him. Ayton is playing for the Bahama's nat'l team and in the Caribbean right now.
 
wizenheimer said:
yeah...this "Ayton can play PF" sure seems like stuck-in-a-time-warp wishful thinking. The NBA isn't anywhere close to the same as it was when Aldridge was in his prime 10-12 years ago. And Aldridge in his prime was quicker than Ayton in a slower NBA; and Aldridge spent most of his time in San Antonio as a C

"you are what you can defend" still is the NBA rule with very few exceptions. With that in mind and using BBREF:

OKC: Jalen Williams spent 83% of his time at PF; Kinrich Williams 60% of his time at PF
Den: Gordon 90% of his time at PF; 6'8 Peyton Watson 60%
LAC: Paul George 86% at PF; Kawhi 32% (but having watched, I think the rate was higher at PF for Kawhi, especially after Batum left)
Dal: PJ Washington 97%; Derrick Jones 49%
Phx: Durant 85%
NOP: Zion 86%; Herbert Jones 45%
LAL: Lebron 86%; Hachimura 49%
Sac: Harrison Barnes 90%; Trey Lyles 82%
GSW: Draymond 80%; Kuminga 65%
Hou: Jabari Smith 68%; Jeff Green 69%; Cam Whitmore 49%
Utah: Collins 70%; Markkanen 49%
SA: Jeremy Sochan 84%; Cedi Osman 56%

Bos: Jayson Tatum 72%; Al Horford 51%; Sam Hauser 33%
NYN: Randle 91%; OG Anunoby 55%; Achiwa 62%
Mil: Giannis 59% (41% at C); Portis 83%
Orl: Banchero 93%; Issac 87%
Ind: Siakam 90%; Obi Toppin
Phi: Tobias Harris 63%; Batum 90%
Mia: Jimmy Butler 74%; Duncan Robinson 23%; Jovic 81%
Chi: Derozan 45%; Patrick Williams 93%; Torrey Craig 81%
Atl: Jalen Johnson 94%; De'Andre Hunter 67%
Brk: Cam Johnson 76%; Dorian Finney-Smith 45%
Cho: Brandon Miller 50%; Grant Williams 43%; PJ Washington 68%
Wash: Kuzma 81%; Avdija 42%
Det: Stewart 76%; Baogdanovich 59%

Minny: KAT 94%; Naz Reid 47%; Kyle Anderson 42%
Cle: Mobley 53% (47% at C); Niang 78%

a big majority of the guys Ayton would be facing are much quicker. More than that though is that most are very adept at dribble-drives and sticking three's. If the Blazers are foolishly trying a twin towers with Clingan/Ayton, it's almost certain the other teams will primarily do three things: one is force Ayton to spend a lot of time chasing players around the 3pt line (where he'll be 20 feet from the rime during defensive rebounds); another is forcing Ayton to react and recover to dribble-drives around screens. And a 3rd thing is teams would force Ayton & Clingan to deal with PnR with ball handlers like Lebron, PG13, Durant; Tatum, Butler, and Siakam. Considering that both have spent their BB careers as drop-cover C's and that will be their instincts, those PnR plays should be good for some high comedy

of course the reality is that it doesn't matter. Portland will be a bad team next season and if they want to experiment with a tall, slow-footed C/PF combo that trip over each other and clog the paint on offense it might be entertaining and worth some chuckles
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People said the same thing about Gobert and Towns, yet the Timberwolves had the top defense in the league. (and Towns has always been considered a crappy defender no less)


And before that, the narrative is that smaller lineups wouldn't work. We'd probably be giving up perimeter defense, but we'd be gaining in other areas, interior defense, rebounding, scoring efficiency.

Teams take about the same number of shots from 0-3 as they do 3s, and 0-3 is still the most efficient shot in basketball.
 
beast crnjo said:
People said the same thing about Gobert and Towns
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get back to me after Clingan is named DPOY for the 4th time; is a 7-time 1st team all-NBA-Defense selection; a 3-time all-NBA selection and makes his 3rd all-star game.

as for Ayton vs KAT, it's apples/oranges. KAT is a 4-time all-star and has converted 1,024 three's in his career; Ayton has converted 24. KAT has proven to be a good passer out of the high post. KAT average 5 FT's a game; Ayton averaged 1.4. KAT's average shot distance is 5 feet further from the hoop tan Ayton's

Clingan is not Gobert and Ayton is not KAT. Gobert and KAT don't trip over each other and because of Kat's perimeter shooting and passing, they complement each other a lot better than Ayton/Clingan are likely too. More than that is Clingan/Ayton won't be playing with a dynamic top-10 player like Anthony Edwards

and in case you missed it, Minny, with the HCA, got beat 4-1 in the playoffs by Dallas who was going with a couple of journeyman bigs who rotated and rarely shared the floor. Dallas small ball crushed Minny's triple towers. Dallas paid 17M for their two bigs; Minny paid 90M for their three towers

seems like only two teams went with a twin-towers concept for any substantial time: Minny and Cleveland. And rumors are floating around that Cleveland might be looking to go another direction. An exception doesn't disprove the rule

I said in my post that I don't care much if Portland wants to experiment with a twin towers. I believe it will fail but bluntly, Portland needs plenty of failure next season. They are still looking for their Anthony Edwards and they won't find him by contending for a 10th seed and being stuck in the bottom of the lottery
 
wizenheimer said:
get back to me after Clingan is named DPOY for the 4th time; is a 7-time 1st team all-NBA-Defense selection; a 3-time all-NBA selection and makes his 3rd all-star game.

as for Ayton vs KAT, it's apples/oranges. KAT is a 4-time all-star and has converted 1,024 three's in his career; Ayton has converted 24. KAT has proven to be a good passer out of the high post. KAT average 5 FT's a game; Ayton averaged 1.4. KAT's average shot distance is 5 feet further from the hoop tan Ayton's

Clingan is not Gobert and Ayton is not KAT. Gobert and KAT don't trip over each other and because of Kat's perimeter shooting and passing, they complement each other a lot better than Ayton/Clingan are likely too. More than that is Clingan/Ayton won't be playing with a dynamic top-10 player like Anthony Edwards

and in case you missed it, Minny, with the HCA, got beat 4-1 in the playoffs by Dallas who was going with a couple of journeyman bigs who rotated and rarely shared the floor. Dallas small ball crushed Minny's triple towers. Dallas paid 17M for their two bigs; Minny paid 90M for their three towers

seems like only two teams went with a twin-towers concept for any substantial time: Minny and Cleveland. And rumors are floating around that Cleveland might be looking to go another direction. An exception doesn't disprove the rule

I said in my post that I don't care much if Portland wants to experiment with a twin towers. I believe it will fail but bluntly, Portland needs plenty of failure next season. They are still looking for their Anthony Edwards and they won't find him by contending for a 10th seed and being stuck in the bottom of the lottery
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I'm not sure why you're talking about KAT's offense, when we were talking about defense. Are you saying, KAT, a guy maligned his whole career as a bad defender, is on another level defensively than Ayton? According to your theory, the Blazers would get so destroyed defensively by playing Ayton at PF, because of "the way the game has changed" etc, yet the #1 defensive team in the league features KAT at PF. Clingan IS a defensive center BTW, and has been compared to Gobert.


Offensively, I think Ayton would be fine at PF as he's got a very good mid-range shot, and I also don't buy the idea that PFs must be able to shoot 3 pointers. Ayton would also be a mismatch inside against those stretch 4s.
 
beast crnjo said:
I'm not sure why you're talking about KAT's offense, when we were talking about defense. Are you saying, KAT, a guy maligned his whole career as a bad defender, is on another level defensively than Ayton? According to your theory, the Blazers would get so destroyed defensively by playing Ayton at PF, because of "the way the game has changed" etc, yet the #1 defensive team in the league features KAT at PF. Clingan IS a defensive center BTW, and has been compared to Gobert.


Offensively, I think Ayton would be fine at PF as he's got a very good mid-range shot, and I also don't buy the idea that PFs must be able to shoot 3 pointers. Ayton would also be a mismatch inside against those stretch 4s.
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I would like to experiment with it, especially to see if it can be effective for end-of-game scenarios on offense.
I don't see it being effective for long periods which is fine because I prefer our centers alternating for much of the game to stay fresh.

But I guess if Williams is healthy we might need to get creative to get all 3 some minutes. At least enough time to showcase him.
 
beast crnjo said:
I'm not sure why you're talking about KAT's offense, when we were talking about defense. Are you saying, KAT, a guy maligned his whole career as a bad defender, is on another level defensively than Ayton? According to your theory, the Blazers would get so destroyed defensively by playing Ayton at PF, because of "the way the game has changed" etc, yet the #1 defensive team in the league features KAT at PF. Clingan IS a defensive center BTW, and has been compared to Gobert.


Offensively, I think Ayton would be fine at PF as he's got a very good mid-range shot, and I also don't buy the idea that PFs must be able to shoot 3 pointers. Ayton would also be a mismatch inside against those stretch 4s.
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KAT is back-stopped by Gobert and Minny has several strong defenders. McDaniels is excellent on defense; So was Kyle Anderson; NAW is very good; so is Conley; and Edwards is a plus defender; so was Naz Reid. We don't even know if Clingan will be as good defensively as Przybilla or Robin Lopez, let alone a 4-time DPOY. Ant-Scoot-Sharpe are all defensive sieves, especially Ant. Grant is a weak defender. Avdija may be solid but we really can't be sure yet.

in other words, there were a lot of reasons why Minny was a great defensive team and were able to offset KAT's defensive disadvantages in perimeter defense. Portland doesn't have any of those advantages

you're also exaggerating how bad KAT is as a defender. His defensive numbers are all better than Ayton's
 
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beast crnjo said:
Why couldn't Ayton play PF? He's similar to LaMarcus Aldridge, in his life for the short jumper. LA was no more fleet afoot than Ayton. Ayton is not a stiff.

Ayton actually has an exceptional mid range jump shot, he hit about 50% of his mid range 2's last year. His shooting percentages are much better than Aldridge's.
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He can't defend 4s. He's pretty mobile for a 5, but compared to 4s he's stuck in the mud.
 
wizenheimer said:
yeah...this "Ayton can play PF" sure seems like stuck-in-a-time-warp wishful thinking. The NBA isn't anywhere close to the same as it was when Aldridge was in his prime 10-12 years ago. And Aldridge in his prime was quicker than Ayton in a slower NBA; and Aldridge spent most of his time in San Antonio as a C

"you are what you can defend" still is the NBA rule with very few exceptions. With that in mind and using BBREF:

OKC: Jalen Williams spent 83% of his time at PF; Kinrich Williams 60% of his time at PF
Den: Gordon 90% of his time at PF; 6'8 Peyton Watson 60%
LAC: Paul George 86% at PF; Kawhi 32% (but having watched, I think the rate was higher at PF for Kawhi, especially after Batum left)
Dal: PJ Washington 97%; Derrick Jones 49%
Phx: Durant 85%
NOP: Zion 86%; Herbert Jones 45%
LAL: Lebron 86%; Hachimura 49%
Sac: Harrison Barnes 90%; Trey Lyles 82%
GSW: Draymond 80%; Kuminga 65%
Hou: Jabari Smith 68%; Jeff Green 69%; Cam Whitmore 49%
Utah: Collins 70%; Markkanen 49%
SA: Jeremy Sochan 84%; Cedi Osman 56%

Bos: Jayson Tatum 72%; Al Horford 51%; Sam Hauser 33%
NYN: Randle 91%; OG Anunoby 55%; Achiwa 62%
Mil: Giannis 59% (41% at C); Portis 83%
Orl: Banchero 93%; Issac 87%
Ind: Siakam 90%; Obi Toppin
Phi: Tobias Harris 63%; Batum 90%
Mia: Jimmy Butler 74%; Duncan Robinson 23%; Jovic 81%
Chi: Derozan 45%; Patrick Williams 93%; Torrey Craig 81%
Atl: Jalen Johnson 94%; De'Andre Hunter 67%
Brk: Cam Johnson 76%; Dorian Finney-Smith 45%
Cho: Brandon Miller 50%; Grant Williams 43%; PJ Washington 68%
Wash: Kuzma 81%; Avdija 42%
Det: Stewart 76%; Baogdanovich 59%

Minny: KAT 94%; Naz Reid 47%; Kyle Anderson 42%
Cle: Mobley 53% (47% at C); Niang 78%

a big majority of the guys Ayton would be facing are much quicker. More than that though is that most are very adept at dribble-drives and sticking three's. If the Blazers are foolishly trying a twin towers with Clingan/Ayton, it's almost certain the other teams will primarily do three things: one is force Ayton to spend a lot of time chasing players around the 3pt line (where he'll be 20 feet from the rime during defensive rebounds); another is forcing Ayton to react and recover to dribble-drives around screens. And a 3rd thing is teams would force Ayton & Clingan to deal with PnR with ball handlers like Lebron, PG13, Durant; Tatum, Butler, and Siakam. Considering that both have spent their BB careers as drop-cover C's and that will be their instincts, those PnR plays should be good for some high comedy

of course the reality is that it doesn't matter. Portland will be a bad team next season and if they want to experiment with a tall, slow-footed C/PF combo that trip over each other and clog the paint on offense it might be entertaining and worth some chuckles
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This is a great point. I'm good with giving it a shot. But I'd be shocked if it were successful.
 
Phatguysrule said:
He can't defend 4s. He's pretty mobile for a 5, but compared to 4s he's stuck in the mud.
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This is my assessment as well but I don't mind if the team wants to try it out. They'll likely see very quickly that we won't have the requisite foot speed in the front court to be effective defensively and that will dictate future moves. I still think that it would take a very nice return to move Deandre at this point. It makes sense for him to start, Clingan to back him up and play around with the rotation to see what does and doesn't work. Maybe it will make sense to do that the entire season and maybe it will only make sense to do that until the trade deadline.

At the same time maybe Joe really wants to move Deandre and all of this talk about Ayton being down for whatever and the team wanting to see how the two work together is just posturing. The funny thing is that regardless of the eventual outcome, we will never know the truth because we're not privy to the trade negotiations or what is said in our front office.
 
wizenheimer said:
get back to me after Clingan is named DPOY for the 4th time; is a 7-time 1st team all-NBA-Defense selection; a 3-time all-NBA selection and makes his 3rd all-star game.

as for Ayton vs KAT, it's apples/oranges. KAT is a 4-time all-star and has converted 1,024 three's in his career; Ayton has converted 24. KAT has proven to be a good passer out of the high post. KAT average 5 FT's a game; Ayton averaged 1.4. KAT's average shot distance is 5 feet further from the hoop tan Ayton's

Clingan is not Gobert and Ayton is not KAT. Gobert and KAT don't trip over each other and because of Kat's perimeter shooting and passing, they complement each other a lot better than Ayton/Clingan are likely too. More than that is Clingan/Ayton won't be playing with a dynamic top-10 player like Anthony Edwards

and in case you missed it, Minny, with the HCA, got beat 4-1 in the playoffs by Dallas who was going with a couple of journeyman bigs who rotated and rarely shared the floor. Dallas small ball crushed Minny's triple towers. Dallas paid 17M for their two bigs; Minny paid 90M for their three towers

seems like only two teams went with a twin-towers concept for any substantial time: Minny and Cleveland. And rumors are floating around that Cleveland might be looking to go another direction. An exception doesn't disprove the rule

I said in my post that I don't care much if Portland wants to experiment with a twin towers. I believe it will fail but bluntly, Portland needs plenty of failure next season. They are still looking for their Anthony Edwards and they won't find him by contending for a 10th seed and being stuck in the bottom of the lottery
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Edwards isn’t a Top 10 player by any metric. Slightly above average player who is overrated because his dunks are cool.
 
1. A trade during the season with his size of contract and with moves made during the draft and free agency is less likely, IMHO.
2. The current free agents of 2025 is a long list of serious players. Many of these will be resolved with extensions, RFA, staying put … but it will still be some serious shopping next summer. And with the 2025 draft being a huuuuuuge focus, next summer is interesting for Ayton having a year left on contract.
3. I’m not seeing an Ayton-Clingan twin towers working … and Clingan just picked as their guy … making Ayton less likely to remain.

That’s why I picked this summer … as less likely as I thought it was prior to the draft. After the stars get re-aligned in the next day or so, the perceived need for size among contenders and wanna-be contenders is a right now thing. Parity rules … until Wemby comes of age … maybe.
 
I think with his 3 pt shooting that Duop can play the 4 alongside any of our centers and we'll be good. Ayton at times plays like Lamarcus from the midrange so he can play that role as well. See what coaching brings to the mix..It's nice to have the option to use two sets of twin towers with one starting and the other off the bench
 
Let’s move Ayton to Memphis for Edey plus their unprotected 2025 1st pick and their own 2027 (1-4 protected) 1st round pick.

Of course we then trade Grant and Ant for additional draft capital along with a couple young prospects.

2024/25 will be a lottery year and we try for Flagg
 
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