Politics Why don't Republicans care?

[Stevenson]

I understand this version of the OT Forum isn't what it once was, and political debate is mostly an echo chamber, but I still must ask: Why don't Republicans care what Trump did in Ukraine?

If Obama used foreign aid to shake down a foreign government for personal gain, you would be in an uproar.

And I get (well, not really) if you think it doesn't rise to the level of Impeachment. But that's not the general GOP take. You just shrug it off and yell 'fake news!'

Anyone have the ability to answer rationally?

 

[yankeesince59]

Putting party before country is simply wrong.

 

[e_blazer]

I suspect that we’re going to hear their version of events in the Senate trial.

 

[donkiez]

I find it strange how someone could demand unending investigations into Hillarys emails and Benghazi then want to dismiss this issue with little or no investigation. I'm all for investigating everything, let the truth come out.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

None of these crimes are worth the death penalty which is exactly what will happen if any of them are put in jail.

See Hillary ninja'ing her way into Epstein's cell and murdering him for example.

 

[stampedehero]

They are like every one else. You keep your decision until the loser will really be officially screwed. These are elected officials that do not want to be a liability to their party but want the power the office bestows them. .

 

[SlyPokerDog]

They are like every one else. You keep your decision until the loser will really be officially screwed. These are elected officials that do not want to be a liability to their party but want the power the office bestows them. .

Good answer!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

1. Boy who cried wolf.

2. Dems have been hell bent on impeaching Trump from the get go. Cant take them seriously anymore. Just grew tired of their charades and cheap parlor tricks.

 

[barfo]

I think part of it is just that Republicans are hostile to government itself. For the past 40 years or so, they've believed that government itself is bad, wasteful, corrupt, useless, etc.

So naturally they don't care if the president is corrupt. His corruption not only proves their point about government, but also helps to destroy the government. And their own corruption has all the same benefits, plus whatever personal gain they can get.

The only question is why the American people keep "hiring" those who say, in effect, "I hate this organization and if you hire me I'll do everything I can to destroy it".

barfo

 

[e_blazer]

I expect that if witnesses are allowed to be called you're going to see Biden's son subpoenaed. Pretty sure that was the hidden threat behind McConnell's statement that if one side gets to call witnesses, both sides will. I'd think that Trump's legal team will try to paint Trump's call for Ukraine to investigate potential corruption as an appropriate use of his position as Chief Executive to find out if a crime had been committed by Biden in order to get his son a job he clearly wasn't qualified for. And, I suspect that the question could be asked as to why most Democrats don't care about that? Personally, I think that there's so much corruption in DC that being jaded to it is pretty much the norm.

 

[barfo]

I expect that if witnesses are allowed to be called you're going to see Biden's son subpoenaed. Pretty sure that was the hidden threat behind McConnell's statement that if one side gets to call witnesses, both sides will. I'd think that Trump's legal team will try to paint Trump's call for Ukraine to investigate potential corruption as an appropriate use of his position as Chief Executive to find out if a crime had been committed by Biden in order to get his son a job he clearly wasn't qualified for. And, I suspect that the question could be asked as to why most Democrats don't care about that? Personally, I think that there's so much corruption in DC that being jaded to it is pretty much the norm.

If Biden did something criminal, he should definitely be investigated/charged/punished. We have a Department of Justice that is in charge of such things. You'd think, if there was any actual wrongdoing, that Bill Barr would be ALL OVER it.

This trial in the senate is about Trump, not Biden. Even if Biden is a serial killer, that does not in any way justify Trump's actions.

That said, I'm sure you are right about the R's wanting to call a Biden or two. Logically they don't make sense as witnesses since they can't shed any light on Trump's crimes, as they were not a party or direct witness to them, and 'he is corrupt too' is not a valid defense, but as a citizen I don't care if they have to testify if it means a fair trial of Trump.

barfo

 

[Lanny]

I understand this version of the OT Forum isn't what it once was, and political debate is mostly an echo chamber, but I still must ask: Why don't Republicans care what Trump did in Ukraine?

If Obama used foreign aid to shake down a foreign government for personal gain, you would be in an uproar.

And I get (well, not really) if you think it doesn't rise to the level of Impeachment. But that's not the general GOP take. You just shrug it off and yell 'fake news!'

Anyone have the ability to answer rationally?

There is no rational answer which says a lot about the New Republican party, aka Trump cult.

 

[e_blazer]

If Biden did something criminal, he should definitely be investigated/charged/punished. We have a Department of Justice that is in charge of such things. You'd think, if there was any actual wrongdoing, that Bill Barr would be ALL OVER it.

This trial in the senate is about Trump, not Biden. Even if Biden is a serial killer, that does not in any way justify Trump's actions.

That said, I'm sure you are right about the R's wanting to call a Biden or two. Logically they don't make sense as witnesses since they can't shed any light on Trump's crimes, as they were not a party or direct witness to them, and 'he is corrupt too' is not a valid defense, but as a citizen I don't care if they have to testify if it means a fair trial of Trump.

barfo

I am not now, nor will I ever, defending Trump. I'm just guessing at where the Repubs will go with this, assuming that they don't just dismiss it outright. As for Bill Barr and the Justice Dept., they can only prosecute crimes for which there is evidence available. If the evidence is in the Ukraine, it's not readily accessible. I think Trump's team will push the no quid pro quo dialog as a major portion of the defense. Should be interesting political theater. Not really expecting anyone to be satisfied with the results.

 

[Lanny]

I expect that if witnesses are allowed to be called you're going to see Biden's son subpoenaed. Pretty sure that was the hidden threat behind McConnell's statement that if one side gets to call witnesses, both sides will. I'd think that Trump's legal team will try to paint Trump's call for Ukraine to investigate potential corruption as an appropriate use of his position as Chief Executive to find out if a crime had been committed by Biden in order to get his son a job he clearly wasn't qualified for. And, I suspect that the question could be asked as to why most Democrats don't care about that? Personally, I think that there's so much corruption in DC that being jaded to it is pretty much the norm.

Nobody thinks Hunter broke the law except Trump and his cult followers. The Justice Department has declined to investigate him, the FBI has declined to investigate him, Ukraine investigated him and cleared him under their latest and most anti corruption prosecutor ever.

Calling Hunter or Joe to testify is a cheap diversion.

 

[e_blazer]

Nobody thinks Hunter broke the law except Trump and his cult followers. The Justice Department has declined to investigate him, the FBI has declined to investigate him, Ukraine investigated him and cleared him under their latest and most anti corruption prosecutor ever.

Calling Hunter or Joe to testify is a cheap diversion.

Usually when something stinks there’s a reason for it. I can’t think of a single valid reason given Hunter’s past that he gets that board position, but again, I’m just stating what I think is going to happen. Feel free to express your own views.

 

[oldfisherman]

I think part of it is just that Republicans are hostile to government itself. For the past 40 years or so, they've believed that government itself is bad, wasteful, corrupt, useless, etc.

So naturally they don't care if the president is corrupt. His corruption not only proves their point about government, but also helps to destroy the government. And their own corruption has all the same benefits, plus whatever personal gain they can get.

The only question is why the American people keep "hiring" those who say, in effect, "I hate this organization and if you hire me I'll do everything I can to destroy it".

barfo

Hope you feel better after dumping that giant load of toxic gut gas on us.

 

[barfo]

Usually when something stinks there’s a reason for it. I can’t think of a single valid reason given Hunter’s past that he gets that board position, but again, I’m just stating what I think is going to happen. Feel free to express your own views.

My view is that he obviously didn't deserve the board seat on his own merits, he got it because of his last name. They were presumably hoping that he'd be able to influence his dad.

But unless he actually did influence his dad to give Burisma some advantage, it's not criminal.

And since the VP has almost zero power of action, it's highly unlikely that Joe took a concrete action to help Burisma. It's possible that he advised/cajoled someone else in government to take action to give Burisma an advantage, but no one has as of now identified who and what that might be.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Hope you feel better after dumping that giant load of toxic gut gas on us.

Do you disagree? If so, what's your theory about why the party appears to be so deeply corrupt?

barfo

 

[oldfisherman]

Do you disagree? If so, what's your theory about why the party appears to be so deeply corrupt?

barfo

Neither party is corrupt.

However, both parties have corrupt people in them. As well as both parties have good honest people in them.

 

[barfo]

Neither party is corrupt.

However, both parties have corrupt people in them. As well as both parties have good honest people in them.

Ok, let me rephrase. Why do you think the Republican party appears to have an unusually large number of corrupt people in it?

barfo

 

[oldfisherman]

Ok, let me rephrase. Why do you think the Republican party appears to have an unusually large number of corrupt people in it?

barfo

Just your opinion. My opinion is, abuse of power is about equal in both parties at this time.

 

[julius]

The Republican party?



The "Republicans" of this page?

 

[yankeesince59]

Dems have been hell bent on impeaching Trump from the get go.

That is more of a regurgitation of what some other misinformed Trump loyalists have been saying than anything else...but it's not entirely true. Trump supporters like to incessantly point to what they deem as "fake news" while at the same time creating their own version of the truth.

The Dems are just as dysfunctional but your claim is a very broad and generalize statement...sure, there were a very few rookies who always disliked Trump but if you do some research, you'll be hard pressed to find that many Dems in Congress who were actually purveyors of "impeachment" talk "from the get go".

 

[e_blazer]

And so, to Stevenson’s main question, I would say that the responses we see here demonstrate that politics is largely tribal in nature and people believe what they want to believe.

 

[yankeesince59]

Pretty much always been that way for the most part.

 

[Minstrel]

I understand this version of the OT Forum isn't what it once was, and political debate is mostly an echo chamber, but I still must ask: Why don't Republicans care what Trump did in Ukraine?

If Obama used foreign aid to shake down a foreign government for personal gain, you would be in an uproar.

And I get (well, not really) if you think it doesn't rise to the level of Impeachment. But that's not the general GOP take. You just shrug it off and yell 'fake news!'

Anyone have the ability to answer rationally?

I'm not a Republican, but politics really isn't about what you care about beyond the broad principles/policies you're fighting for as a party. Whether Trump is corrupt isn't one of those broad principles/policies--I'm sure a number of Republican politicians care and think he is absolutely corrupt. Maybe even all of them. But what happens if they go after Trump? Trump commands the approval of 80-90% of Republican voters. How do you survive as a Republican politician by angering 80-90% of your voters? Any Republican senator that votes to convict Trump, or actively talks about him as corrupt, is looking at getting drummed out of their position via a primary challenge. They'd much rather remain in their position than stand on principle. And they can justify it to themselves as staying in power to advance their important principles like lower taxation and...well, I'm not sure there's much else they stand for at the moment that they'd actually fight for and spend political capital on.

Once you've decided you can't oppose Trump, the only playbook you can run is shrugging off his actions as fake news and exaggeration.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm not a Republican, but politics really isn't about what you care about beyond the broad principles/policies you're fighting for as a party. Whether Trump is corrupt isn't one of those broad principles/policies--I'm sure a number of Republican politicians care and think he is absolutely corrupt. Maybe even all of them. But what happens if they go after Trump? Trump commands the approval of 80-90% of Republican voters. How do you survive as a Republican politician by angering 80-90% of your voters? Any Republican senator that votes to convict Trump, or actively talks about him as corrupt, is looking at getting drummed out of their position via a primary challenge. They'd much rather remain in their position than stand on principle. And they can justify it to themselves as staying in power to advance their important principles like lower taxation and...well, I'm not sure there's much else they stand for at the moment that they'd actually fight for and spend political capital on.

Once you've decided you can't oppose Trump, the only playbook you can run is shrugging off his actions as fake news and exaggeration.

Hi! Welcome to RipCityTwo!

 

[Minstrel]

Hi! Welcome to RipCityTwo!

Hello, long time listener, first time caller.

 

[barfo]

Just your opinion. My opinion is, abuse of power is about equal in both parties at this time.

And of course you are welcome to that opinion, just as you'd be welcome to the opinion that the Blazers are by far the best team in the league today.

It's just that there isn't a lot of factual basis for those opinions.

barfo

 

[barfo]

I'm not a Republican, but politics really isn't about what you care about beyond the broad principles/policies you're fighting for as a party. Whether Trump is corrupt isn't one of those broad principles/policies--I'm sure a number of Republican politicians care and think he is absolutely corrupt. Maybe even all of them. But what happens if they go after Trump? Trump commands the approval of 80-90% of Republican voters. How do you survive as a Republican politician by angering 80-90% of your voters? Any Republican senator that votes to convict Trump, or actively talks about him as corrupt, is looking at getting drummed out of their position via a primary challenge. They'd much rather remain in their position than stand on principle. And they can justify it to themselves as staying in power to advance their important principles like lower taxation and...well, I'm not sure there's much else they stand for at the moment that they'd actually fight for and spend political capital on.

Once you've decided you can't oppose Trump, the only playbook you can run is shrugging off his actions as fake news and exaggeration.

One potential other option would be to hold a through, evidence-based trial to see whether the party voters can be convinced by facts or if they are just hopeless cultists.

And while I'm on the subject, I'd like a pretty pink unicorn to be my butler.

barfo