Siakam?

[Rastapopoulos]

Seems worth a thread, given how many Ben Simmons got.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I imagine the board would be 99% in favor of a straight up CJ for Siakam swap, but it probably won't be that.
Also: why is Toronto suddenly keen to trade the guy who seemed to be their next franchise player? What went wrong last season? Attitude problems? @speeds ?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

As @B-Roy points out about the Raptors and Gary Trent:

I would think they want him to be a starter if they're going to pay him 15M+. You don't pay that much for a backup.

But it would be quite funny for GTJ to get traded into a starting role, only to end up back behind CJ after a year.

This does seem to be an issue. In general, CJ doesn't really seem to fit the Raptors' "type".

 

[Zach Collins Enthusiast]

Interesting. I would be very happy with getting Siakam!

 

[julius]

I wonder, could it turn into a 3 way trade with Portland, Toronto and Philadelphia?

Maybe....CJ and DJJ to the Raptors, re-signed Trent and Siakim to the 76ers, Simmons and Seth Curry to Portland?

Spoiler

yes I know the #'s wouldn't match up, that's not the point

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

As @B-Roy points out about the Raptors and Gary Trent:



This does seem to be an issue. In general, CJ doesn't really seem to fit the Raptors' "type".

Right. I think there would be a third team involved.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I imagine the board would be 99% in favor of a straight up CJ for Siakam swap, but it probably won't be that.
Also: why is Toronto suddenly keen to trade the guy who seemed to be their next franchise player? What went wrong last season? Attitude problems? @speeds ?

He's not as good as they thought when they signed him to the big contract. But I think he would be a lot more useful for us than CJ has been.

 

[Titan]

There could be some meat to this. It sorta depends on free agency, like for example some GM gives a massive overpay for GT jr. CJ then could be a good leader for their rebuilding core. The other option is a third team like the Knicks. Three team scenario has been discussed already on this board. Some team out there will want CJ’s leadership and be willing to trade some youth to Toronto and we get the wing we need.

 

[illmatic99]

Indiana and Turner seem like an obvious candidate for the third team

 

[B-Roy]

It's funny when I read the reactions of any team involved in CJ rumors. No one wants CJ on their team. But hopefully teams see it differently. Lamb/Turner makes a lot of sense for Indiana IMO.

Brogdon/CJ/LeVert/Warren/Sabonis would rival our season last year in terms of offense and defense.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I THINK I'VE GOT IT!!!!

How about BOTH!!!

 

[damianlillard]

I THINK I'VE GOT IT!!!!

View attachment 39965

How about BOTH!!!

Not bad actually as long as the raptors get picks too. Then we just might have a deal

 

[MickZagger]

It's funny when I read the reactions of any team involved in CJ rumors. No one wants CJ on their team. But hopefully teams see it differently. Lamb/Turner makes a lot of sense for Indiana IMO.

Brogdon/CJ/LeVert/Warren/Sabonis would rival our season last year in terms of offense and defense.

Brogdon might be the best defensive PG in the league and has decent size. So I’m sure he’d be guarding the more difficult assignment of the opposing back courts.

 

[MickZagger]

Lillard
Powell
Covington
Siakam
Nurkic

That’s a helluva starting lineup with the only bad defender being Lillard. Plenty of offense.

 

[Cugel]

I just don't see CJ being traded. Multiple reasons: Dame's friend, NeO's arrogance in trading a first round pick (tantamount to admitting he makes mistakes), earlier rumors that he was staying put, ~not a great contract/poor return.

 

[wizenheimer]

mentioned this in another thread, but I'd wonder if the TOR/PDX talks were, in part, Olshey's way of telling Morey to shit or get off the pot on Simmons

also: Tobias Harris and Siakam in a front court, especially along with Embiid, looks pretty awkward to me. Could a 3-way trade, Simmons going to Toronto, SJ to Philly, and Siakam to Portland be a possibility. That looks like all three teams get better fits. Both PDX and Toronto might have to ship future first round picks to Philly

who would you rather the Blazers have: Siakam or Simmons, assuming the price for Simmons would be higher?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I just don't see CJ being traded. Multiple reasons: Dame's friend, NeO's arrogance in trading a first round pick (tantamount to admitting he makes mistakes), earlier rumors that he was staying put, ~not a great contract/poor return.

You really think he hasn't been shopped multiple times? The only barrier to him being traded is that he's more valuable to us than what we'd get in return. Now, given how little value most people here put on him... So perhaps your complaint is that Olshey overvalues him, and perhaps he does, but he looked pretty damn good before getting hurt last year.
And as for being Dame's friend? Don't you remember how many times Dame calls somebody his buddy (Shabazz, Ed, etc.) and they get traded like that. It was like being Dirty Harry's partner.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Lillard
Powell
Derozen
Siakam
Nurkic

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

This is a play to secure Powell too…

Siakam and Norm were close friends in Toronto

 

[tykendo]

You really think he hasn't been shopped multiple times? The only barrier to him being traded is that he's more valuable to us than what we'd get in return. Now, given how little value most people here put on him... So perhaps your complaint is that Olshey overvalues him, and perhaps he does, but he looked pretty damn good before getting hurt last year.
And as for being Dame's friend? Don't you remember how many times Dame calls somebody his buddy (Shabazz, Ed, etc.) and they get traded like that. It was like being Dirty Harry's partner.

Great Dirty Harry reference.

 

[Mr. Robot]

who would you rather the Blazers have: Siakam or Simmons, assuming the price for Simmons would be higher?

pascal siakam was second best raps player on the championship team, but its worth noting that raps were a stacked team lead by kawhi, while the blazers wouldnt be stacked like the raps were if we get siakam, unless we make more moves and dame isnt as good as kawhi, so siakam probably wouldnt be ideal second option if you dont have dominant 1st option and/or a stacked team... blazers would need nurk (first and foremost) & powell to take a leap in order for us to become the better team, but also add some nice bench pieces and hope that simons & little improve

pascal siakam is a better scorer than ben simmons, but thats only thing hes better at, simmons is a better defender (siakam is great, all-nba defender himself, but simmons is elite defender), better playmaker & slightly better rebounder and id take simmons if nurk & powell can become legit scoring options, but as of now, theyre not, so id take siakam as hes proven scoring option on a championship team and nurk & powell arent

if dame was dominant as kawhi & giannis are, id probably go with simmons, but we need more scoring and thats why siakam makes more sense than simmons

 

[speeds]

I imagine the board would be 99% in favor of a straight up CJ for Siakam swap, but it probably won't be that.
Also: why is Toronto suddenly keen to trade the guy who seemed to be their next franchise player? What went wrong last season? Attitude problems? @speeds ?

I hope you don't mind but I don't think I can keep this short.

On March 24, Shams Charania reported that Pascal Siakam had been fined $50,000 for arguing with coach Nurse in the locker room. The Raptors denied that Siakam had been fined but did not deny that the argument took place. Siakam had been benched in the fourth quarter in a loss to the Cavaliers (Toronto's ninth consecutive) and was rumoured to be unhappy about that and generally displeased with being blamed for Toronto's post-Kawhi struggles.

Gotta go further back in time a little before continuing on. Right after winning the Larry OB Kawhi Leonard and his team (Jeremy Castleberry, Uncle Dennis, maybe others) decided that the Raptors weren't strong enough to repeat. Leonard approached the Raptors about acquiring Paul George from the Thunder. Seeing what Sam Presti squeezed out of the Clippers you've got to assume the deal would've centred around Siakam, Fred VanVleet, and first round picks. Even if they made the deal they would still not be guaranteed that Leonard would re-sign and could make more demands (apparently Leonard's team thought the PG trade was a good starting point only and expected more). Raptors GM Bobby Webster and PBO Masai Ujiri decided to max-out Siakam and keep him and try to sell Leonard on the team improving internally. Leonard bailed but said Toronto were in heavy consideration, more so than the Lakers.

Siakam had a great fourth season and was nearly a consensus All-Star starter for the East. Nobody was complaining about him making $30MM that season. (Important to note that Siakam started playing competitive basketball when he was like eighteen! You can fairly take a few years off his career and picture him as more like a fourth-year player than a sixth-year player). Then the playoffs happened. Toronto swept Brooklyn and faced Boston in the second round. It was the first time he played in a series against a good team that schemed against him specifically. Siakam bombed that series, playing hard defence but averaging 15ppg on .382/.125 shooting. The series went to seven games because Toronto was still really deep and experienced and the thought was if Siakam was just slightly better they would've made the third round. This performance brought out a lot of critics of Siakam who started questioning whether he could be the guy.

If you compare Siakam's 2019 All-Star season to his 2020 "disappointing" season you'll see he actually improved in several areas (2P%, relied less on his 3PA, increased his free throws per, moved up to nearly 5APG) but didn't show the leaps-and-bounds year-over-year improvement he had over the previous two seasons. Toronto struggled in Tampa, lost more key players, and went into retooling. Siakam still got slandered online for not being what fans wanted him to be.

Is Siakam unhappy now? We don't know. When you lose nine straight and the ninth comes against a shit-tier Cavs team, you WANT your star player to be fuming. To me this isn't indicative of an unhappy player in the broader sense. He hasn't come out and said anything like he wants to be gone. Kendrick Perkins said on draft night that the drafting of Barnes meant Siakam was leaving. For starters, Perk is a hot take artist and kind of an idiot, but he is especially supportive of Toronto (like Charles Barkley seems to be) so who knows what his M.O. was. I think he was just referring to the story about the fine and taking that to mean Siakam wants out/hates Nurse. I think that's a stretch. Toronto's been good to Siakam and Barnes looks to be a multi-positional player like Draymond Green or Ben Simmons. I don't think he is a power forward to replace Siakam. He can play with him. But he's kind of a project too so I don't think it matters much this year what position he plays.

Trading McCollum for Siakam makes sense for Portland. They probably made an offer. Siakam running the floor with Lillard would be sweet. To me it makes no sense for Toronto. McCollum is going to be 30-years old this season (doesn't fit the core), he's a smallish guard (doesn't fit the type), and he's a Khris Middleton type complimentary star. Complimentary to who? This trade would make him our first option. It also stands to reason that re-signing GTJ for $17MM per year (trending that way) AND trading for McCollum is nonsensical. We DO need scoring but this move is an expensive and temporary way to address it IMHO. But what do I know?

 

[tykendo]

I disagree on your Dame take. While Dame isn't in the same league defensively as Kawhi, he's a better all around offensive talent than Leonard. Dame's a better leader, distributor, and closer. Leonard lucked out on that bouncy ball game winner.

 

[tykendo]

I hope you don't mind but I don't think I can keep this short.

On March 24, Shams Charania reported that Pascal Siakam had been fined $50,000 for arguing with coach Nurse in the locker room. The Raptors denied that Siakam had been fined but did not deny that the argument took place. Siakam had been benched in the fourth quarter in a loss to the Cavaliers (Toronto's ninth consecutive) and was rumoured to be unhappy about that and generally displeased with being blamed for Toronto's post-Kawhi struggles.

Gotta go further back in time a little before continuing on. Right after winning the Larry OB Kawhi Leonard and his team (Jeremy Castleberry, Uncle Dennis, maybe others) decided that the Raptors weren't strong enough to repeat. Leonard approached the Raptors about acquiring Paul George from the Thunder. Seeing what Sam Presti squeezed out of the Clippers you've got to assume the deal would've centred around Siakam, Fred VanVleet, and first round picks. Even if they made the deal they would still not be guaranteed that Leonard would re-sign and could make more demands (apparently Leonard's team thought the PG trade was a good starting point only and expected more). Raptors GM Bobby Webster and PBO Masai Ujiri decided to max-out Siakam and keep him and try to sell Leonard on the team improving internally. Leonard bailed but said Toronto were in heavy consideration, more so than the Lakers.

Siakam had a great fourth season and was nearly a consensus All-Star starter for the East. Nobody was complaining about him making $30MM that season. (Important to note that Siakam started playing competitive basketball when he was like eighteen! You can fairly take a few years off his career and picture him as more like a fourth-year player than a sixth-year player). Then the playoffs happened. Toronto swept Brooklyn and faced Boston in the second round. It was the first time he played in a series against a good team that schemed against him specifically. Siakam bombed that series, playing hard defence but averaging 15ppg on .382/.125 shooting. The series went to seven games because Toronto was still really deep and experienced and the thought was if Siakam was just slightly better they would've made the third round. This performance brought out a lot of critics of Siakam who started questioning whether he could be the guy.

If you compare Siakam's 2019 All-Star season to his 2020 "disappointing" season you'll see he actually improved in several areas (2P%, relied less on his 3PA, increased his free throws per, moved up to nearly 5APG) but didn't show the leaps-and-bounds year-over-year improvement he had over the previous two seasons. Toronto struggled in Tampa, lost more key players, and went into retooling. Siakam still got slandered online for not being what fans wanted him to be.

Is Siakam unhappy now? We don't know. When you lose nine straight and the ninth comes against a shit-tier Cavs team, you WANT your star player to be fuming. To me this isn't indicative of an unhappy player in the broader sense. He hasn't come out and said anything like he wants to be gone. Kendrick Perkins said on draft night that the drafting of Barnes meant Siakam was leaving. For starters, Perk is a hot take artist and kind of an idiot, but he is especially supportive of Toronto (like Charles Barkley seems to be) so who knows what his M.O. was. I think he was just referring to the story about the fine and taking that to mean Siakam wants out/hates Nurse. I think that's a stretch. Toronto's been good to Siakam and Barnes looks to be a multi-positional player like Draymond Green or Ben Simmons. I don't think he is a power forward to replace Siakam. He can play with him. But he's kind of a project too so I don't think it matters much this year what position he plays.

Trading McCollum for Siakam makes sense for Portland. I wouldn't doubt it if they had made an offer. Siakam running the floor with Lillard would be sweet. To me it makes no sense for Toronto. McCollum is going to be 30-years old this season (doesn't fit the core), he's a smallish guard (doesn't fit the type), and he's a Khris Middleton type complimentary star. Complimentary to who? This trade would make him our first option. It also stands to reason that re-signing GTJ for $17MM per year (trending that way) AND trading for McCollum is nonsensical. We DO need scoring but this move is an expensive and temporary way to address it IMHO. But what do I know?

Might have to be a 3 way trade. I think CJ's game would compliment Embiid's in Philly. CJ's game was upped at the beginning of last year. That foot injury at the hand of the lumox Capella changed that. He wasn't the same player after the injury, at either end.

 

[tykendo]

Might have to be a 3 way trade. I think CJ's game would compliment Embiid's in Philly. CJ's game was upped at the beginning of last year. That foot injury at the hand of the lumox Capella changed that. He wasn't the same player after the injury, at either end.

Capella almost took out Giannis as well. Those big clod hoppers end up in dangerous areas around opposing players.

 

[B-Roy]

Well shit. Fischer just said the reason he wrote about the Siakam/CJ rumors was because it was something that was talked about by teams around the league, and the reason he wrote it was to basically definitively state that those talks have not gotten anywhere.

 

[MickZagger]

Yeah the more I think about it, Ujiri isn’t stupid. Why the hell would he trade us Siakam to build a young team around an aging McCollum who is basically just a scorer

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah the more I think about it, Ujiri isn’t stupid. Why the hell would he trade us Siakam to build a young team around an aging McCollum who is basically just a scorer

well, if only he'd focus on the first 12 games of CJ's season like so many here are, he'd trade Siakam & Boucher for CJ and Jones

 

[Pinwheel1]

Trading McCollum for Siakam makes sense for Portland. They probably made an offer. Siakam running the floor with Lillard would be sweet. To me it makes no sense for Toronto. McCollum is going to be 30-years old this season (doesn't fit the core), he's a smallish guard (doesn't fit the type), and he's a Khris Middleton type complimentary star. Complimentary to who? This trade would make him our first option. It also stands to reason that re-signing GTJ for $17MM per year (trending that way) AND trading for McCollum is nonsensical. We DO need scoring but this move is an expensive and temporary way to address it IMHO. But what do I know?

I agree with your overall post, but this one line made me pause: he's a smallish guard (doesn't fit the type)

What type? I mean both Lowry, and VanVleet are smaller than CJ. (Flynn as well)
I remember games in the finals when they played both together in crunch time (Instead of Green)
And Nurse did use NP a lot at SF, so is he really opposed to small lineups? Don't crush our dreams Speeds

 

[James lamphear]

Only way CJ gets traded if Powell signd with us. Only way Powell would sign with us if he the starting SG. So I taking my clue if CJ stays or goes is off Powell goes or stays.