Power Forward of the Future

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Boob-No-More

Why you no hire big man coach?
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I know some here still consider Noah Vonleh our Power Forward of the Future. I do not. Yes, Noah is still young, but he's nearing the end of his third NBA season, has started 72 games (so far) over the last two years and has shown ZERO improvement.

As I see it (and have seen it all season), PF is, by far, our weakest position and greatest area of need. Now that we have a young beast roaming the middle, who should we be targeting to start at PF next to Nurkic at center?

I wanted Ibaka for the last couple months. Here's what I wrote about Ibaka back in December:

Serge Ibaka:
Ibaka, while no longer the perennial DPOY candidate he once was, is the perfect PF to start next to Noel. He gives us the floor spacing we hoped to get from Aminu and Leonard, but is also still an excellent help defender and rim protector. He's made more 3-pointers than Aminu and Leonard combined and done so while shooting .412 3FG%.

The hard part will be getting him from ORL. For over a year, they have waffled between an all out youth movement vs. a win now and let's make the playoffs approach. The result is they haven't done very well at either approach. They constantly bench their young talent in favor of veterans, or worse yet, give that talent away for practically nothing.

As the trade deadline approaches and it's obvious they aren't making the playoffs, yet again, I think they may finally decide to go all in on the rebuild, making players like Vucevic and Ibaka available. Ibaka is 27-years old and accustomed to playing for a winning team. I doubt if he'd consider resigning with a team that is in full rebuild mode. If they are fearful of losing him for nothing, it may force their hand to trade him at the deadline while they can still get something for him.

At least, one can hope this happens. He is exactly the kind of two way role player this team needs to play next to Lillard and McColllum. He's good enough to be a third option on offense, a great help defender to help compensate for Lillard and McCollum's weak defense, and with his 3-point range, a great ft next to Noel on the offensive end.

OK, I wrote that post assuming we could also get Nerlens Noel and dump Crabbe's contract in the process to make room to resign Ibaka. That ship has sailed, but I still think we need a PF like Ibaka (can hit the 3, but is also a great help defender and defends the pick and roll well). Add in above average rebounder, and younger and cheaper than Ibaka and we'd have our perfect Power Forward of the Future.

We have three picks in a deep draft. Are there any PFs in this draft that meet our needs? If so, who. If not, what PFs are likely to be on the block that we could realistically target in a draft day trade?

And, just because I titled the thread Power Forward of the Future doesn't mean it needs to be some 19 - 20 year old kid. I'd actually prefer someone closer to Dame in C.J. in age that would be in his prime during their window. Maybe someone 23 or 24 years old who is being underutilized playing behind an established veteran. Or maybe someone like Nurkic who is being nosed out by someone of similar age that his current team sees as their Power Forward of the Future.

We need help at this position and we need it badly. So, who is your ideal Power Forward of the Future for this team, as it's currently constructed? Is he someone we should target in the draft, or a player we can snag in a trade. The addition of Nurkic made our font court both better and younger. That opens up the possibility of adding a more veteran PF to get better immediately, or we can just concede the West to GS for the next three or four years and go with someone younger who will be ready to to enter their prime at the same time as Nurkic when Dame and C.J. are still (barely) on the right side of 30.

Throw out your ideas and let's see if there are any clear cut favorites.

BNM
 
One player that comes to mind is Derrick Favors. At 25, he's in the same age range as Dame and C.J. He's had a big fall off in his offense this season, and I'd want to understand why, but until this year, he's always been a solid 2-way player. He doesn't have 3-point range, but still fits well next to Gobert. So, I think he could share the floor with Nurkic. Until this season, you could depend on him for 16/8 with 1.5 BLK/G. UTA is shopping him as they try to clear cap space for the inevitable Gordan Hayward max offer, and they have the younger Trey Lyles waiting in the wing as their Power Forward of the Future.

Is now the time to buy low on Favors? He is under contract though 2017-18 at $12 million and UTA is NOT taking back any significant salary. With 3 draft picks and Ezeli's almost expiring contract, it may take getting a third team that is under the cap involved, but we should be able to work out a way to get Favors without giving up too much - if we think his dip in production this year is a one time anomaly.

I'm not sold on Favors (I would have been a year ago, if he'd been available then), but just tossing him out as someone who is available and is a good fit age wise with the rest of our roster.

BNM
 
Fall off for Favors is due to injury that he is recovering from. Only reason Utah even floated that he is available (for the right price) is because of that. Hard to get a young stud unless there is a wart (otherwise teams want to keep them). If injury recovery is truly the only issue with him then that is a chance we need to take as I agree he is a great fit. I mentioned it quite a few times in the trade thread around the deadline but they likely didn't want to deal him until summer anyways (if at all) because they are going full-boar for the playoffs.
 
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Zero improvement? Seriously?

Yes, other than summer league and one preseason game against PHO, Vonleh has been abysmal. Perhaps you didn't click on my link. So, here's what I wrote:

Meyers isn't the only one who doesn't deserve to start. And, that's the problem. We need a starting quality PF to put next to our new center. Vonleh seems to get a pass because he's still very young, but if anything, he's a bigger disappointment than Meyers.

He's a year and a day younger than Nurk and has been playing organized basketball much longer, was drafted the same year, but his "development" is light years behind Nurk. Of course, we didn't draft him, but we gave up something of value to get him. CHO gave up on him after one year, and he's been worse here than there. He was handed a starting role for much of last season (56 starts) and was recently handed it again.

You're right about Meyers. He doesn't deserve to start, but neither does Noah. Meyers has started a total of 17 games the last two seasons. Vonleh has started 72. So, its mot like Meyers has been a fixture in our starting line up. Vonleh is, and if anything, he's been worse than Meyers. They have the exact same PER (8.3), but Vonleh's TS% of .463 is atrocious for a big man and the worst of the players in our 10-man rotation. The fact that his TS% is that low and nearly 1/4 of his made FGs are dunks just underscores what a terrible shooter he is. Excluding dunks, his 2FG% is .328. How can a player whose average FG distance is 8.9 feet shoot the ball that horribly - and still be an NBA starter?

Vonleh was picked higher in a much deeper draft than Meyers. So, if Meyers is such a huge bust and should never be starting, why isn't the same said about Vonleh? I get that he's younger than Meyers, but he's nearing the end of his third NBA season, has started 72 games and played over 2000 minutes. He's actually been given more opportunity to improve during his first three seasons than Meyers did - and he hasn't, not one single bit. He put up better numbers as a 19-year old rookie in CHO than he has with the Blazers.

He has the lowest PTS/100 possessions on the team and if you go to 82games.com, you will see that as a team we get outscored by 11.2 PTS/48 while he's on the court (exactly twice as bad as Meyers, in this regard). I'm not even sure how that is even possible, given that he gets to play most of his minutes with Dame and C.J.

OK, enough Vonleh ranting, but this just proves we need a MAJOR upgrade at the PF position. You can't be starting a guy there with a PER of 8.3 (be it Meyers or Noah) and expect to win.

BNM

Disagree all you want, but please name one area of his game that Vonleh has improved since he came into the league. Keep in mind his TS% of .463 makes Aminu look like a sharp shooter and, as a team, we get outscored by 11.2 PTS/48 when he's on the floor. If there has been any improvement, it sure hasn't translated into results.

BNM
 
Well I think we need two. One from the draft who is not quite ready but who shows a variety of skills. (i.e TJ Leaf-who went 25/9 last night for those who think I am crazy)

The other, a vet who can step in until the rookie has developed. Channing Frye or Thad Young ?

Edit: Forget Frye. He will be 34 in May.
 
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Noah sucks. He has 0 bball instincts. Look at Nurk. He's is only a year older.

What we need is Paul Millsap, who is also younger. Lyles is an interesting suggestion-- a big body but also dynamic on offense. Maybe we can find this dude in the draft.
 
Doesn't Noah have a close to elite rebounding percentage rate or some advanced stat like that? Not saying that means he has done great or improved or that we even have to keep him forever. But it does show promise I guess?
 
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Doesn't Noah have an elite rebounding percentage rate or some advanced stat like that? Not saying that means he has done great or improved or that we even have to keep him forever. But it does show promise I guess?

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I'd trade 2 of our picks for Julius Randle.

This did cross my mind as well. I went down various lists of the top PF's in the league......... what a shit list. Not a lot of options folks.
 
This did cross my mind as well. I went down various lists of the top PF's in the league......... what a shit list. Not a lot of options folks.
Gotta go young. Marquese Chriss, Dario Saric are others. Saric would be sick.
 
I would not give up on Vonleh until you are forced to commit major bucks to him. He has the perfect size and skill set. He just needs to get it into games.

The position would really be best for someone who can hit a decent % from three, average or plus rebounder, plus defender, etc. Layman could end up there. Mirotic could be a decent choice.

Any interest in trying to revive Terrance Jones?
 
I think he's improved quite a bit, myself.

In what ways? To me, he still looks like exactly the same player that was thrust into the starting line up early in his second season. He's started 72 games since, and still looks like the same player to me. He looked decent in summer league and dominated the PHO teenagers in one preseason game, but I've yet to see him show any improvement against real NBA players.

He's started 72 games for us at PF and has ZERO double:doubles and has scored in double figures exactly five times, with his high scoring game as a Blazer being 11 points. For as much shit as Meyers Leonard gets around here, at least he manages to pull a double:double out of his ass a couple times a year and goes off for 16 points a couple times a month.

Vonleh's best game as a pro was 16/12 as a rookie in CHO. He hasn't come close to that since. So yeah, I'm not seeing the improvement. I wish I was, but it's just not there. He's still young, but we used to say that about Meyers, too.

BNM
 
It's a shame Ivan Rabb will probably be as big a project as Vonleh is, he's friends with Lillard and was his neighbor. The dude would be perfect and probably around for our first pick.

We probably need someone that can help quicker than he can with that pick though, maybe we'll get lucky and he'll drop to our second pick.
 
Caleb Swanigan?

Swanigan's production is up across the boards, as he's posting incredible per-40 minute averages of 23 points, 15.6 rebounds, 3.5 assists and 4.2 turnovers, while shooting 58% from 2-point range and 47% for 3.
 
Doesn't Noah have an elite rebounding percentage rate or some advanced stat like that? Not saying that means he has done great or improved or that we even have to keep him forever. But it does show promise I guess?

TRB% = 17.3 is good, above average, but not elite. His TRB% his rookie year was 18.3%. So, still not seeing any improvement.

BNM
 
Gotta go young. Marquese Chriss, Dario Saric are others. Saric would be sick.

Not a bad idea. But I doubt Chriss is available.

If we trade for a young PF, do we want another in the draft? I think we need a vet and a rookie.
 
I posted this earlier in another thread. Here is a look at Vonleh's per-36 numbers over the past 3 years:
Vonleh.jpg
Pts, Reb, Blks, and PER have all dropped since his rookie year. TOV have increased.

I know he's still young, and has tremendous physical attributes. But at some point he needs to start showing improvement and earn his minutes.

Some PFs high on the draft board:
- Robert Williams (Fr). TX A&M. 6-9, 237 lbs. 11.9 pts, 7.8 reb.
- Harry Giles. Duke (Fr). 6-10, 240 lbs. 4.9 pts, 4.1 reb, 0.5 blks.
- Lauri Markkanen (Fr). Arizona. 7-0, 230 lbs. 15.6 pts, 7.5 reb, 45.5% 3pt.
- TJ Leaf (Fr). UCLA. 6-10, 225 lbs. 17.0 pts, 8.8 reb, 1.1 blks.
- Ivan Rabb (So). Cal. 14.6 pts, 10.7 reb, 1.2 blks.

With picks around 12 & 22, we should have a swing at a couple of these prospects.
 
TRB% = 17.3 is good, above average, but not elite. His TRB% his rookie year was 18.3%. So, still not seeing any improvement.

BNM
He is top 30 in the nba. Maybe not elite but closer than most.

Maybe I am wrong but that rookie year would have been in such limited minutes that it would not qualify for award status (if there was such an award for the top 30 in the nba) This years would.

I not saying he improved in my response. I saying he has one skill (which may not be enough. Not pretending it is) that is very good. Maybe something to build off of. Or not. Time will tell.
 

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