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Wizard Mentor

Wizard Mentor

Wizard Mentor
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Oct 22, 2008
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Here's a problem as I see it. We have IMHO 10 guys who deserve PT, with 2 more on the border. Seems like we need a consolidation trade. Who do you think should be starting, who do you think is "Rotation Worthy"?

Big 3
Dame
CJ
Nurk

Small 2
Harkless
Vonleh (at least for now)

Rotation Worthy
Crabbe
ET
Aminu
Collins
Davis

Borderline Rotation Worthy
Swanigan
Napier

Practice Dudes
Biebs
Pat C.
Layman
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Here's a problem as I see it. We have IMHO 10 guys who deserve PT, with 2 more on the border. Seems like we need a consolidation trade. Who do you think should be starting, who do you think is "Rotation Worthy"?

Big 3
Dame
CJ
Nurk

Rotation Worthy
Crabbe
ET
Harkless
Vonleh
Collins
Davis

Borderline Rotation Worthy
Swanigan
Napier
Aminu

Practice Dudes
Biebs
Pat C.
Layman
Click to expand...
 
I am hoping tbat Harkless and Vonleh can make strides to improve their overall game. Vonleh had games down the streak where everything just clicked. Aminu will always be in the rotation because he matchup so well with different players. But if he's honestly given carte blanche to toss up 3's then I am going to puke. Let's hope Layman's work this off season shows he can consistently shoot under pressure. He has the athleticism and instincts to play the game.
 
ripcityboy said:
I am hoping tbat Harkless and Vonleh can make strides to improve their overall game. Vonleh had games down the streak where everything just clicked. Aminu will always be in the rotation because he matchup so well with different players. But if he's honestly given carte blanche to toss up 3's then I am going to puke. Let's hope Layman's work this off season shows he can consistently shoot under pressure. He has the athleticism and instincts to play the game.
Click to expand...
I think Vonleh is gonna make a good leap this season, I think he will give us close to a double double and really solid defense.
 
My hope:
Dame
CJ
Harkless
Vonleh
Nurk

Crabbe
Napier
Swanigan
Collins

Bench
Pat
Layman

Trade
Davis
Aminu
Biebs
Turner
 
Davis was a useful player prior to last year. I'd rather not dump him when he's close to valueless--I'd rather see if he can rebound next season and maybe trade him at the deadline. It's not like he's so old that last season was expected age-related decline.
 
Minstrel said:
Davis was a useful player prior to last year. I'd rather not dump him when he's close to valueless--I'd rather see if he can rebound next season and maybe trade him at the deadline. It's not like he's so old that last season was expected age-related decline.
Click to expand...
I mean Davis is our backup 5 atm so you have a decent point
 
I want to win. If a healthy, conditioned Nurkic does in fact make this squad a contender, then one would think our lineup should be Dame/CJ/Moe/Vonleh/Nurk with backups Napier/Crabbe/Turner/Aminu/Davis.

Once it is clear that we're still far short of where we need to be, Swanigan and Collins should replace Aminu and Davis in the rotation.
 
Minstrel said:
He meant acquiring BronBron.

Vonleh, Davis and Aminu won't get it done. Might need to throw in CJ too. Nurkic is obviously too much.
Click to expand...

This should probably have been in the Realistic Trade Ideas thread, sorry.
 
Minstrel said:
Davis was a useful player prior to last year. I'd rather not dump him when he's close to valueless--I'd rather see if he can rebound next season and maybe trade him at the deadline. It's not like he's so old that last season was expected age-related decline.
Click to expand...
The easiest way to lost some $$$ off our cap is to let Davis walk. It would be kinda sad, but it would make sense.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Here's a problem as I see it. We have IMHO 10 guys who deserve PT, with 2 more on the border. Seems like we need a consolidation trade. Who do you think should be starting, who do you think is "Rotation Worthy"?

Big 3
Dame
CJ
Nurk

Small 2
Harkless
Vonleh (at least for now)

Rotation Worthy
Crabbe
ET
Aminu
Collins
Davis

Borderline Rotation Worthy
Swanigan
Napier

Practice Dudes
Biebs
Pat C.
Layman
Click to expand...

This was all over the board last year as well.
NO needs to make a Consolidation trade due to the amount of bigs Portland had going into last season.
Nards, Plumlee, Ezeli, Davis
Vonleh, Aminu

Remember who Portland ended up starting in the playoffs and after Nurk went down at Center?
I'm not against a trade, but I'd also rather not end up starting Nards at Center for any games this year.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Here's a problem as I see it. We have IMHO 10 guys who deserve PT, with 2 more on the border. Seems like we need a consolidation trade. Who do you think should be starting, who do you think is "Rotation Worthy"?

Big 3
Dame
CJ
Nurk

Small 2
Harkless
Vonleh (at least for now)

Rotation Worthy
Crabbe
ET
Aminu
Collins
Davis

Borderline Rotation Worthy
Swanigan
Napier

Practice Dudes
Biebs
Pat C.
Layman
Click to expand...

I see insurance
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Here's a problem as I see it. We have IMHO 10 guys who deserve PT, with 2 more on the border. Seems like we need a consolidation trade. Who do you think should be starting, who do you think is "Rotation Worthy"?

Big 3
Dame
CJ
Nurk

Small 2
Harkless
Vonleh (at least for now)

Rotation Worthy
Crabbe
ET
Aminu
Collins
Davis

Borderline Rotation Worthy
Swanigan
Napier

Practice Dudes
Biebs
Pat C.
Layman
Click to expand...

Dame/CJ/Nurk - Untouchables

Crabbe/ET/Vonleh - Rotational pieces

Collins/Harkless/Swanigan - Developing/solid role players

Aminu/Davis - If we need minutes..

Everyone else except Napier - waste of time

Reasoning - Ideal starting lineup for me is;

Dame/CJ/Crabbe/Vonleh/Nurk, while the jury is out on Swanigan/Collins.

ET slots in nicely off the bench as backup for CJ/Damian, allowing either of them to play off the ball also as well as playing w/Crabbe or for Crabbe. Collins *potentially* could fill the void at the 4 we've been looking at, but for now has *potential* as a 4/5 hybrid, given his game translates and he stays out of foul trouble. I might be undervaluing Swanigan here also; there is very real potential that he could be a great above-average role player, ala Wes Matthews.

I don't think Harkless fits as well as Crabbe with our starters, given Nurk pans out. I think Crabbe's passivity would at least be somewhat remedied because he would get a lot more uncontested shots playing in the starting lineup.

Aminu/Davis are known quantities with known limitations. I'm not trying to get them too many minutes, they'v had plenty of time.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
I think Vonleh is gonna make a good leap this season, I think he will give us close to a double double and really solid defense.
Click to expand...

Vonleh will get his starting role taken by one of the rookies within the first 20 games. That's my prediction.
 
Harkless needs to start. Look at who's the main beneficiary of Nurk's passing because he is the best on the team at slashing and finishing. A 3rd of his assists are to Harkless. 12/14 of them are on cuts to the basket. Crabbe had 2....

 
Last edited:
dviss1 said:
Harkless needs to start. Look at who's the main beneficiary of Nurk's passing because he is the best on the team at slashing and finishing. A 3rd of his assists are to Harkless. 12/14 of them are on cuts to the basket. Crabbe had 2....

Click to expand...


He had six assists to Crabbe in that video; undoubtedly not as many as he had to Harkless or Vonleh but a couple were from cuts and a couple were jumpers ala what my original point was.

I think Nurk and Vonleh pair extremely well together because Vonleh excels at crashing the boards and weakside rebounding and cutting - as evidenced in the video. I think Crabbe pairs better because he is more effective at stretching the floor. Don't need Harkless and Vonleh cutting. I need to see more development defensively from Crabbe; alternatively Harkless could start shooting 40% from 3 and I'd be happy. It's also a lot harder to double our guards (or Nurk) off of Crabbe until Harkless becomes a knock down 3 shooter. This is also subject to Noah being able to stay on the floor with Nurk. I think Swanigan & Collins might show some things and if they can stretch the floor in some capacity, I would agree with leaving Harkless where he is.

I would be curious to see how many minutes Nurk played with Crabbe vs Hark.
 
I think we need Craabe's shooting paired with Turner off the bench, although they didn't seem to play very efficiently off each other.

Harkless or Turner make much more sense at the starting 3 due to their defense, which Crabbe seems to float way too much.
 
Imagine how much better his passing will work when they actually run more plays through him and his teammates have training camp to get used to him passing. It's amazing how much chemistry is shown on the video with very little time to get used to each other.
 
Starting: Dame/CJ/Aminu/Collins/Nurk
Bench: Turner/Harkless/Swanigan

Seems to me that's likely to be our rotation for much of the season.

You need Aminu to start for his defense. Simple as that.

I think you go with Collins right away--all the guys who are returning have had ample opportunity to seize the starting PF spot for years now, and they've consistently failed. We desperately need a difference-maker here, and we might as well roll the dice on the new guy. He can't be much worse than what we had last year. Vonleh got two years of starting at PF without really earning it--now it's Collins' turn.

Swanigan is going to be a beast rebounding (it's one skill that always seems to transfer from the college game, and he lead the NCAA last year), and his perimeter shot is going to be too tempting for Stotts to pass up on off the bench. Vonleh has had a free pass for a couple years now and hasn't shown much progress.

Pretty much everybody but Turner and Nurk can hit a three pointer in this rotation, which Stotts obviously loves. Those two give you the passing and post play that opens everything up.

When you want to go 9 men in the rotation, you sub in Crab, Davis or Vonleh situationally. If Nurk goes down, you use Davis. If a guard is injured Crabbe gets minutes, and if a PF goes down it's Vonleh.

At least that's how I hope it goes. If Collins and Swanigan aren't part of the rotation I'm going to be pretty depressed. I just don't see us winning a playoff series without serious contributions from at least one of them.
 
Destroyer of Worlds said:
He had six assists to Crabbe in that video; undoubtedly not as many as he had to Harkless or Vonleh but a couple were from cuts and a couple were jumpers ala what my original point was.

I think Nurk and Vonleh pair extremely well together because Vonleh excels at crashing the boards and weakside rebounding and cutting - as evidenced in the video. I think Crabbe pairs better because he is more effective at stretching the floor. Don't need Harkless and Vonleh cutting. I need to see more development defensively from Crabbe; alternatively Harkless could start shooting 40% from 3 and I'd be happy. It's also a lot harder to double our guards (or Nurk) off of Crabbe until Harkless becomes a knock down 3 shooter. This is also subject to Noah being able to stay on the floor with Nurk. I think Swanigan & Collins might show some things and if they can stretch the floor in some capacity, I would agree with leaving Harkless where he is.

I would be curious to see how many minutes Nurk played with Crabbe vs Hark.
Click to expand...

With Nurk Harkless shot like 44% bro. No lie.
 
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