OT AAU team and refs fight

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Yeah, I watched the video, couldn't really tell what was going on, but never good to see players beating on a guy. I was wondering why the coaches weren't able to control the players. Any thoughts on this situation @dviss1?
 
Need to see the rest of the video.
But looks real bad for both players and officials.
 
trailblazer18 said:
Yeah, I watched the video, couldn't really tell what was going on, but never good to see players beating on a guy. I was wondering why the coaches weren't able to control the players. Any thoughts on this situation @dviss1?
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I’m curious what he has to say too. I’ve never seen players and refs do that. I have seen parents and refs get into fist fights, that’s just because some parents are worse than my two year old. I’ve seen shoving and screaming is kind of normal, but that was pretty screwed up...
 
BonesJones said:
The coach (Martin) sounds full of it.
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I don’t like they’re a minor excuse. Yes I wish younger me would’ve done some things differently, and I think most people see how immature we could be in our teens. It’s not an excuse for this type of stuff though, it’s just not at least for me.
I think most people know at that point in their life that behavior is wrong.
 
A team was getting destroyed. Couldn't get close and was down double digits. A frustrated player on the losing team argued with the ref about a foul call and was shouldering him. The ref called a T and the player began punching him. This set off several brawls. A team couldn't handle losing. Coach of the winning team knew it was coming and kept his players away from it. Good for him.
 
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That ref was getting his ass kicked and kept coming back for more
 
Chris Craig said:
A team was getting destroyed. Couldntget close and was down double digits. A frustrated player on the losing team argued with the ref about a foul call and was shouldering him. The ref called a T and the player began punching him. This set off several brawls. A team couldn't handle losing. Coach of the winning team knew it was coming and kept his players away from it. Good for him.
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That’s basically the story I read too on a couple different sites. Seems like the coach of the losing team should be fired. The players involved should get kicked out of the program.

Chances are nothing much will happen though, I can almost guarantee you there are people in that program more upset they were losing that game then the fight that happened.
 
THE HCP said:
Man I wish @dviss1 was reffing my game and I was a player..... you’d get thumped son!
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In my 17 years of officiating there has never been a fight on my floor.

If there's a fight, it's 100% the referees fault.

80% of a referee's job is to prevent fights by making proper calls and communicating with the players.

Thumped?

I've never been beaten in a 1 on 1 fight... Let alone get "thumped"... I punch nuts. :dunno:
 
trailblazer18 said:
Yeah, I watched the video, couldn't really tell what was going on, but never good to see players beating on a guy. I was wondering why the coaches weren't able to control the players. Any thoughts on this situation @dviss1?
Click to expand...

My last comment was without seeing the video.

I'll give my comments on it at lunchtime today.

I'll say this, the refs continuing the fight is a horrible thing...
 
My kid will never play AAU. It's a joke! Teaching basketball skills and player/referee safety are about 6th or 7th on the priority list. Money and egos are what drives the AAU, nothing else.
 
Cheese22 said:
My kid will never play AAU. It's a joke! Teaching basketball skills and player/referee safety are about 6th or 7th on the priority list. Money and egos are what drives the AAU, nothing else.
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I have 3 girls and if they want to I’ll let them play. You’re right though, at least on the men’s side.
 
Ok I've watched both videos and there isn't enough to tell how the first referee ended up on the floor.

All that said a few caveats:

If a referee is assaulted the perp is prosecuted and the referee is paid $2000 from the state.

I like checks. If a kid swings at me, I'm taking a dive and catching a check on the way down before I hit the ground.

Joking aside, there are LOTS of things that can be done to prevent such a horrible spectacle. Here's what I do almost every game:

Establish rapport: At the beginning of the game I say something that endears the players to me like "who's got the best shoe/sock combo?" Or something funny that lets them know an adult human male is officiating their game and not robotron 5000. I even remark at the plays they make "your boy just took 2 charges! He's out here playing D". Do little shit that humanizes you. I always learn one of the better player's name then, I'll say it and they're surprised I know it.

Pre officiating: During the game constantly talking the players out of potential calls helps keep air out of the whistle. "Hands off, Don't push, Straight up", "Watch your elbows" etc, are things that can be said that inform the players that you're watching them and aware of what they're doing. A guy was boxing out once and had his elbow near the throat of his "boxee". After the play when there was an opportunity to talk I tell him, "Your arms are getting way too high on your boxout and that's unnatural to have your elbows that high. Keep them down before you hurt someone. "

Look AWAY from the ball: If the ball's at the top of the key and you're the official on the baseline, WATCH THE PAINT NOT THE BALL. If I'm working a game with someone and I notice them ball watching, I just ask them a question: I know you can see the ball but what's going on in the paint?" Watching the paint prevents fights.

The whistle and horn/buzzer command respect: It's louder than a jet engine. Utilize it! The whistle was blown all of 4x in both clips and the horn was never blown.

Employ the double foul: Do you have 2 players being overly aggressive/physical? Call a double foul (foul on each player) and tell them both to clean it up or you'll eject them both.

Utilizing tactics like these will earn you respect from the players and prevent fights and referee assaults.
 
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Cheese22 said:
My kid will never play AAU. It's a joke! Teaching basketball skills and player/referee safety are about 6th or 7th on the priority list. Money and egos are what drives the AAU, nothing else.
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This is simply not true. This sounds like an uninformed opinion.
 
dviss1 said:
Ok I've watched both videos and there isn't enough to tell how the first referee ended up on the floor.

All that said a few caveats:

If a referee is assaulted the perp is prosecuted and the referee is paid $2000 from the state.

I like checks. If a kid swings at me, I'm taking a dive and catching a check on the way down before I hit the ground.

Joking aside, there are LOTS of things that can be done to prevent such a horrible spectacle. Here's what I do almost every game:

Establish rapport: At the beginning of the game I say something that endears the players to me like "who's got the best shoe/sock combo?" Or something funny that lets them know an adult human male is officiating their game and not robotron 5000. I even remark at his plays they make "your boy just took 2 charges! He's out here playing D". Do little shit that humanizes you.

Pre officiating: During the game constantly talking the players out of potential calls helps keep air out of the whistle. "Hands off, Don't push, Straight up", "Watch your elbows" etc, are things that can be said that inform the players that you're watching them and aware of what they're doing. A guy was boxing out once and had his elbow near the throat of his "boxee". After the play when there was an opportunity to talk I tell him, "Your arms are getting way too high on your boxout and that's unnatural to have your elbows that high. Keep them down before you hurt someone. "

Look AWAY from the ball: If the ball's at the top of the key and you're the official on the baseline, WATCH THE PAINT NOT THE BALL. If I'm working a game with someone and I notice them ball watching, I just ask them a question: I know you can see the ball but what's going on in the paint?" Watching the paint prevents fights.

The whistle and horn/buzzer command respect: It's louder than a jet engine. Utilize it! The whistle was blown all of 4x in both clips and the horn was never blown.

Employ the double foul: Do you have 2 players being overly aggressive/physical? Call a double foul (foul on each player) and tell them both to clean it up or you'll eject them both. Y

Utilizing tactics like these will earn you respect from the players and prevent fights and referee assaults.
Click to expand...

The preceding post has been 'Ref' approved.
 
dviss1 said:
Ok I've watched both videos and there isn't enough to tell how the first referee ended up on the floor.

All that said a few caveats:

If a referee is assaulted the perp is prosecuted and the referee is paid $2000 from the state.

I like checks. If a kid swings at me, I'm taking a dive and catching a check on the way down before I hit the ground.

Joking aside, there are LOTS of things that can be done to prevent such a horrible spectacle. Here's what I do almost every game:

Establish rapport: At the beginning of the game I say something that endears the players to me like "who's got the best shoe/sock combo?" Or something funny that lets them know an adult human male is officiating their game and not robotron 5000. I even remark at the plays they make "your boy just took 2 charges! He's out here playing D". Do little shit that humanizes you.

Pre officiating: During the game constantly talking the players out of potential calls helps keep air out of the whistle. "Hands off, Don't push, Straight up", "Watch your elbows" etc, are things that can be said that inform the players that you're watching them and aware of what they're doing. A guy was boxing out once and had his elbow near the throat of his "boxee". After the play when there was an opportunity to talk I tell him, "Your arms are getting way too high on your boxout and that's unnatural to have your elbows that high. Keep them down before you hurt someone. "

Look AWAY from the ball: If the ball's at the top of the key and you're the official on the baseline, WATCH THE PAINT NOT THE BALL. If I'm working a game with someone and I notice them ball watching, I just ask them a question: I know you can see the ball but what's going on in the paint?" Watching the paint prevents fights.

The whistle and horn/buzzer command respect: It's louder than a jet engine. Utilize it! The whistle was blown all of 4x in both clips and the horn was never blown.

Employ the double foul: Do you have 2 players being overly aggressive/physical? Call a double foul (foul on each player) and tell them both to clean it up or you'll eject them both. Y

Utilizing tactics like these will earn you respect from the players and prevent fights and referee assaults.
Click to expand...
Great post! However, I fucking hate when I'm dominating some fool in the post and the refs give him warnings about his hands and elbows instead of calling a foul. I've seriously been in games where the refs give the guy about 30 warnings and never actually calls a foul. It's so annoying.
 
dviss1 said:
This is simply not true. This sounds like an uninformed opinion.
Click to expand...
My personal experiences around aau and the coaches have not been positive (I know that it doesn’t mean they are all dirty, or bad). I do think especially at higher levels of AAU it can get pretty bad.
If my kids want to play I’ll support them, help them, do what I can to lead them through life.

It occurs to me after reading your above post not enough is made about the job of peacemaker that a ref needs to play, sometimes a fight will happen and there might not be anything that could’ve been done. A lot of the time though the ref needs to keep things from escalating long before a fight does happen.

I was in a game in middle school, where a parent got pissed off about a call and was pretty determined he wanted to fight and I don’t think the ref could’ve done much to de-escalate it, but a lot of the time a good ref is stern with the calls and boundaries but also let’s players know early what is and isn’t allowed.
 
dviss1 said:
Ok I've watched both videos and there isn't enough to tell how the first referee ended up on the floor.

All that said a few caveats:

If a referee is assaulted the perp is prosecuted and the referee is paid $2000 from the state.

I like checks. If a kid swings at me, I'm taking a dive and catching a check on the way down before I hit the ground.

Joking aside, there are LOTS of things that can be done to prevent such a horrible spectacle. Here's what I do almost every game:

Establish rapport: At the beginning of the game I say something that endears the players to me like "who's got the best shoe/sock combo?" Or something funny that lets them know an adult human male is officiating their game and not robotron 5000. I even remark at the plays they make "your boy just took 2 charges! He's out here playing D". Do little shit that humanizes you.

Pre officiating: During the game constantly talking the players out of potential calls helps keep air out of the whistle. "Hands off, Don't push, Straight up", "Watch your elbows" etc, are things that can be said that inform the players that you're watching them and aware of what they're doing. A guy was boxing out once and had his elbow near the throat of his "boxee". After the play when there was an opportunity to talk I tell him, "Your arms are getting way too high on your boxout and that's unnatural to have your elbows that high. Keep them down before you hurt someone. "

Look AWAY from the ball: If the ball's at the top of the key and you're the official on the baseline, WATCH THE PAINT NOT THE BALL. If I'm working a game with someone and I notice them ball watching, I just ask them a question: I know you can see the ball but what's going on in the paint?" Watching the paint prevents fights.

The whistle and horn/buzzer command respect: It's louder than a jet engine. Utilize it! The whistle was blown all of 4x in both clips and the horn was never blown.

Employ the double foul: Do you have 2 players being overly aggressive/physical? Call a double foul (foul on each player) and tell them both to clean it up or you'll eject them both. Y

Utilizing tactics like these will earn you respect from the players and prevent fights and referee assaults.
Click to expand...
Great post, great insight!
 
hoopsjock said:
Great post! However, I fucking hate when I'm dominating some fool in the post and the refs give him warnings about his hands and elbows instead of calling a foul. I've seriously been in games where the refs give the guy about 30 warnings and never actually calls a foul. It's so annoying.
Click to expand...

Here's what you have to understand though, if it's marginal contact by rule is not a foul AND I'm telling them this stuff before it's becomes a foul. And if he elbowed you without me saying anything before, you might turn around and HULK SMASH.
 
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