Trade Idea NATO

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Your view on NATO?

  • NATO is essential for US security and prosperity

  • NATO is a net positive, but it's not all that important really

  • meh - doesn't matter

  • NATO is a net negative, but it's not all that bad

  • NATO is hurting US security and prosperity and we should withdraw from NATO

Results are only viewable after voting.
barfo

barfo

triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac
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So, poll - what's your view on NATO?

Just curious how the orange kool-aid is tasting today.

barfo
 
You think Putin is dangerous now....see what he's like in Poland, Latvia, etc if NATO doesn't have a strong presence on his border....which to me, makes Trump's moves suspicious as hell....he blows off G7....calls our neighbors weak liars, call Putin a great guy...only gets excited about engaging with dictators who don't answer to anyone...sort of his wish list for himself
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
I know this. My point is, every nation should be spending at the same rate to keep the Alliance fair and balanced.
Click to expand...

Awesome! You know more than our president does!

Also the alliance will never be fair and balanced. We will always be the biggest and most badass.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
I know this. My point is, every nation should be spending at the same rate to keep the Alliance fair and balanced.
Click to expand...
The size and scope of the military and the countries budgets are not the same though...you think Poland can afford to pay what US does?
 
First, Europe is no longer struggling to recover from WWll.

Second, NATO was created to repel a Russian invasion. NATO has refused to create a force capable of doing that.

Third, the GNP of the EU is almost as large as the US. But the EU has 200 million more people than the US. Yet the US spends $3 on the military for every $1 spent by all the EU countries combined.

Fourth, US interests have changed. The war that now matters to the US is being fought in the Islamic world, not Europe.

Fifth, NATO needs the US to defend Europe. But NATO is not doing, and never has done their share to defend themselves.
 
oldfisherman said:
First, Europe is no longer struggling to recover from WWll.

Second, NATO was created to repel a Russian invasion. NATO has refused to create a force capable of doing that.

Third, the GNP of the EU is almost as large as the US. But the EU has 200 million more people than the US. Yet the US spends $3 on the military for every $1 spent by all the EU countries combined.

Fourth, US interests have changed. The war that now matters to the US is being fought in the Islamic world, not Europe.

Fifth, NATO needs the US to defend Europe. But NATO is not doing, and never has done their share to defend themselves.
Click to expand...
The US chose to have military bases in Europe and Turkey..etc...we by no means have been forced by NATO to have such a large presence there...that's on us..cow towing to Russia however by Trump over our allies is just bs by the president. Fact is when we go to war...we just don't leave...we have bases all over the globe that we don't need to have on such a large scale..and EU is not close to our military budget....England left because poverty in Greece, Italy, etc..were bringing down their own GNP.....the countries bordering Russia are far from wealthy...we keep a huge presence I N. Korea more to have a presence near eastern Russia and China than N Korea...it's a big risk board...Trump should be downsizing our international presence if he's worried about money....if money is such an issue Stateside...why did he bloat the military budget as soon as he got into office? Now a real waste of money is a border wall and trade war with our biggest trading partners....Trump is full of shit..he's even wanting to build an army in space now...the guy talks out of his ass most of the time...he's an embarrassment to all good things American in my view. He should bring the Korean conflict American troops home and build those bases in Oregon and Alaska...let the soldiers spend their checks stateside for a change
 
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Obama let Russia break every treaty they wanted to break. Obama was a weak president.

Now we have a president whiling to stand up to the EU countries, and talk to our enemies. I may not like his style, but at least he is a much stronger president than whimmpy Obama.

BTW, how do you know what Trump is up to with the Russians? I don't.
 
riverman said:
The size and scope of the military and the countries budgets are not the same though...you think Poland can afford to pay what US does?
Click to expand...

Okay, point taken. But Liberals need to shut the fuck up about our military spending. No more "military industrial complex blah blah blah", no more whining about our military budget. None of that shit. Because we ARE basically NATO. And if it wasn't for us, this NATO, and especially Europe in general, would be in dire straights right now.

So do you want us to have the largest, most powerful military in the world and be good for NATO? Or do you want us to cut military spending? Because you can't have both.

A strong NATO, or cut military spending. Those are your two choices.

Personally, I'd like to see us sell two of our oldest Nimitz-class Carriers to our closest allies in Europe and start withdrawing forces from our most least-important bases around the world. I think that would be a good start. Let Europe take more care of itself, while still maintaining a strong military.

If we cut military spending, then the way I see it is that the rest of NATO countries need to step up if they want safety and security from Russia and China. 2% means 2%.
 
Consider these facts.

The population of the EU is more than three times that of Russia.

The GNP of the EU is about five times that of Russia.

Yet Russia would kick the EU butt, without the US.

NATO should no longer need the US to defend themselves.
 
oldfisherman said:
BTW, how do you know what Trump is up to with the Russians? I don't.
Click to expand...
Listen to his own words about what great guys Kim Jong-un and Putin are....when it suits him....and what terrible people Trudeau and Merkel are....doesn't ring a bell? It should....I don't really believe most of the crap that comes out of his mouth.....listened to him talk at the NATO meeting today and he said the same thing over and over....Germany does business with Russia....billions....yeah...that's called free trade...not military sabre rattling...Trump doesn't do his homework period...he's got nothing of substance in diplomatic discussions...just insults. I only know what I hear the man say.....puzzling some have turned a blind eye to his double standards and lack of planning on the international front
 
riverman said:
little thing called WWII capped Germany and Japan's military development.....Russia spends big on military...Germany spends big on business...they aren't the same thing
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Japan has actually been pushing for years to have an Offensive Military, instead of a Defensive one. I would support that with them being closely allied with us. They have a long and illustrious Naval history.
 
barfo said:
So, poll - what's your view on NATO?

Just curious how the orange kool-aid is tasting today.

barfo
Click to expand...
I'm a Beaver so I always like Orange.

I remember when I was a tot this neighbor lady would bake cookies and make Kool-Aid, then she'd call us tiny tots from around the local neighborhood to her front yard where we'd drink and eat while listening to her read childrens' stories.

To this day, I like Kool-Aid and cookies.
 
riverman said:
Listen to his own words about what great guys Kim Jong-un and Putin are....when it suits him....and what terrible people Trudeau and Merkel are....doesn't ring a bell? It should....I don't really believe most of the crap that comes out of his mouth.....listened to him talk at the NATO meeting today and he said the same thing over and over....Germany does business with Russia....billions....yeah...that's called free trade...not military sabre rattling...Trump doesn't do his homework period...he's got nothing of substance in diplomatic discussions...just insults. I only know what I hear the man say.....puzzling some have turned a blind eye to his double standards and lack of planning on the international front
Click to expand...
I could be wrong but I don't think he's too fond of Trudeau.

And let's not forget Rodrigo Duterte. A man of the kind of high intellect that Trump admires.
 
Just fyi, NATO's obligation to commit to 2% was supposed to be met sometime in the 2020s. It wasn't meant to be met now.

Otherwise, Bush, Obama, Clinton, and Trump were right to bring the issue up because Europe has gotten incredibly lax and even arrogant about not meeting their share.

For example, during the Cold War, it used to be that you could depend on the UK to compliment the US and patrol and safeguard their waters by themselves with their submarine force. Nowadays, the reports are of Russian subs patrolling freely and messing around in the UK's backyard while the Royal Navy downsizes. And that's from a country that actually meets the 2% standard.

Thus, it's a major problem that Europe's own governments and population refuses to address - especially in light of poisonings, invasions, hackings, etc that stem from Russia and Islamic terror attacks that average out at one per month.

Meanwhile, there is also the issue of doctrine. Their own military forces need to be not just built up but also should be working in congruent fashion with one another. Who will be the submarine warfare specialists like the UK was during the Cold War? Which countries can actually project power without American naval support ferrying them across the way? Can and will France and Germany reinforce Poland or Greece?

Essentially, 2% is a good start to meet treaty obligations but it's actually a long way to go if Europe (or NATO sans US) wants to deter Russia.
 
riverman said:
little thing called WWII capped Germany and Japan's military development.....Russia spends big on military...Germany spends big on business...they aren't the same thing ...when Germany had a green light it almost conquered Europe, N. Africa and Russia
Click to expand...

The treaty with Germany allows them to have up to 370,000 total military personnel. They have less than 210,000.
.
 
oldfisherman said:
The treaty with Germany allows them to have up to 370,000 total military personnel. They have less than 210,000.
.
Click to expand...
How many do we have in the American Army in Europe?
 
Lanny said:
I'm a Beaver so I always like Orange.

I remember when I was a tot this neighbor lady would bake cookies and make Kool-Aid, then she'd call us tiny tots from around the local neighborhood to her front yard where we'd drink and eat while listening to her read childrens' stories.

To this day, I like Kool-Aid and cookies.
Click to expand...

I like you, Lanny.
 
MarAzul said:
Two post I decided did not deserve a direct response.
Click to expand...
This is a thread asking your opinion....not a thread asking what you think of someone else's opinion....guess you don't have one eh Marz….too bad. The OP...what do you think about NATO...not what do you think about Sly and Riverman
 
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