Around The Horn 1.03

Welcome to the first week of 30 Teams in 30 Days! This week we'll be previewing the Atlantic division, and we'll also be talking about the latest NBA scandal that's got the fans and players alike all wondering whats going on. But we'll start off this edition of ATH as we preview the Boston Celtics. Remember, we are still playing by the ATH rules, so on Wednesday night one of the four players will be cut. So make sure you put everything you got in all of your posts, it's not about quantity but quality. So let's get started!! :winkglasses: Atlantic Division PanelGArenasvalo35iversonfan268Strike3<span style="color:#008000">Boston Celtics Preview</span>A draft night traded sent away the 5th overall pick to the Seattle Sonics, but that didn't mean the Celtics didn't get anything in return. Boston received All-Star guard Ray Allen in the deal, Allen is coming off a season in which he put up 26/4/4 a game. We've been discussing a lot about this move, and some believe that this won't do a thing to help this team get to the playoffs. So guys, in your opinions, do you think the addition of Ray Allen makes this team an instant playoff contender, or was this a bad move by management?BluffCityBlue will be judging this week.

When I look at the Boston Celtics I see a squad that has the potential to make it to the first round. They're built around Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Al Jefferson. This is a dynamite scoring trio who will rival the big-three's of Washington and Phoenix. Ray Allen will bring a veteran with arguebely the best stroke in the NBA, Paul Pierce will continue to lead Boston with his versatility, and Al Jefferson will continue to slowly shape into a dynamite big-man.

Despite Boston's core being very strong, their supporting cast is very young and in-experienced. Make no mistake, the Celtics are not lacking in young potential but few of these young studs are proven. Ryan Gomes and Rajon Rondo both contributed a good deal towards the end of last season, however when you look past those two you don't see any solid contributers. Sebastian Telfair is not ready to step in and play a 6th man role at this point and Gerald Green needs to improve on his shooting touch before being a solid backup for Allen. By trading away Delonte West and Wally Sczerbiack the Celtics brought in an all-star caliber player who can help a team get to the playoffs but also severely damaged their depth which will keep them from going deep for now. Look at the 5 best teams in the NBA last season: Dallas Mavericks, Phoenix Suns, San Antonio Spurs, Detroit Pistons, and Cleveland Cavaliers. All these teams are very deep except for the Pistons who we've seen fall apart in the Eastern Conference Finals the last two seasons. I'm sure fatigue played a factor in the Pistons not being able to reach the finals after leading the east for a second straight season.

After the Celtics depth problem, Doc Rivers is not a playoff caliber coach. Last year when 'Fire Doc' posters had been popping up for 2-3 months, Danny Ainge should have taken the initiative and done the deed. Getting rid of Rivers will not 'ruin the chemisty' as Ainge seems to believe, the Celtics are likely going to get off to a slow start anyways because of Ray Allen's addition. All team's that make big moves usually start off season's slowly, we saw it last year with the Chicago Bulls. Rivers will slow down the Cletics.

The other issue with the Celtics is that the Eastern Conference playoff picture is very close. Last year the standing were:

1. Detroit
2. Cleveland
3. Toronto
4. Miami
5. Chicago
6. New Jersey
7. Washington
8. Orlando

None of these teams have suffered the loss of a valuable player this off-season, in fact all these teams have improved their roster in the off-season. Therefore Boston will have to out-perform one of these teams which will be no easy task. The Celtics will also be forced to fight off the Bobcats and the Knicks in a pursuit for a playoff seed.

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Ray Allen makes the Celtics an Eastern Conference playoff caliber team. However, there are factors to the Celtics franchise that hold Boston back from actually making the playoffs. I see the Celtics having a + .500 record but still missing the playoffs by a little.

I like the draft day trade by the Boston Celtics to get Ray Allen but that wont make them an instant playoff contender. Injuries can hurt them again even with a better team then last year and still do pretty well. It's very hard to predict a teams future but it is easy to predict a teams future if there was no such thing as injuries and things like that. Guys like Al Jefferson will need to step up if they want to go somewhere this year. Some people are expecting too much from these guys now that they have Ray Allen. Two players (Paul Pierce and Ray Allen in this situation) do not make a team. A team is made of many players that put in hard work together to get the job done. Well on draft day they did get some good 2nd round picks like Gabe Pruitt out of USC and Big Baby Glen Davis out of LSU. People started to forget about Glen Davis once he was a Senior and LSU wasn't a top fifteen team. He was great in his Junior year and played pretty good in the Summer League. this guy has potential. Expect this guy to be a starter in about 2 or 3 years. Gabe Pruitt is a also a nice pick at Guard. He has some great quickness and can set himself up for some outside shots. He can also attack the rim so you can't expect one thing from this guy. He is used to playing Shooting Guard at USC but he will have to adjust to Point Guard for the Celtics. He really has to try to limit the amount of turnovers he causes.This team is full of potential but that potential is not ready to go all the way yet. They were in the worst division in the NBA last season but it looks like it wont be this year with the Raptors an up and coming team. The Nets are always a contender. The Knicks another Atlantic Division team getting a star added to their roster on draft day and the pretty bad Philadelphia 76ers.I would have to agree with GArenas that Doc Rivers is not a playoff caliber coach and that is because he has no playoff experience. This year the Eastern Conference should be a little stronger so I would have to say the Celtics make the playoffs as an 8th seed but I don't see them going anywhere in the playoffs.

Ok, to answer the first question yes this does make the team a playoff contender. Ray Allen gives the Celtics another great scorer and another veteran leader and the addition of him should be enough to make this team a playoff contender. Plus don't forget the main reason the Celtics were so bad was because they were hammered with injuries last season. You also can't forget all their younger players now have another year of experience under their belt. As long as they don't get the injury bug again this team should be in the playoffs.However, this was also a bad move my the management. Yeah they have a playoff team now. Still when you look at their roster, do you see a team that could win the East? No, I see a team that wins around 45 games and takes a first or second round exit. So in the end, who cares if this team is a playoff team now? This team is still a long ways from being contenders and I don't see this move keeping Paul Pierce satisfied for very long. They are trying to show Pierce that they want to win now, but this wasn't the right move to do that. I think half the reason Ainge did this was just out of desperation. If they really wanted to turn this team into contenders now, I think they should've kept working Garnett even if he was syaing he didn't want to go to Boston. Garnett really is the only player up for grabs that could turn this team into contenders. They should have patiently kept working on Garnett, and if they still couldn't get him I think it would've just been for the best to part ways with Pierce and finally make rebuilding their main priority. This was just the wrong direction to go in. The only part of this deal I like for the Celtics is they got rid of Wally's contract. Personally I think parting ways with Paul Pierce would've been the best thing to do. I realize it would be hard. I mean the Sixers just parted ways with AI for the first time in 11 yearsa and it's still kind've hard seeing him in another uniform. So I know how it feels. However in the end it was the best thing for both Iverson and the sixers organization and I think it would be the same for Pierce and Boston. I mean look at all the young talent they have. There's very few teams in the NBA with as much young talent as the Cletics and those few teams who do have it are all rebuilding. For one, they could've kept their pick and they would've gotten another great player in the future in Green, Brewer, or Yi(hopefully not him). Plus by trading PP they would've gotten even more youth in that trade. This team would be looking great for the future. Instead they're just trying to win now, when they've still failed to do anything to make themselves real contenders. Ray Allen just isn't the answer to solving all their problems. So yes this makes them a playoff team but it was also a bad move and the wrong direction to go in.

GArenas-3 pointsOne thing, Cleveland wasnt top 5 team last season. Teams better are San Antonio, Phoenix, Utah, Dallas, and Detriot. Despite losing to the Cleveland Cavaliers, they are still the better team...thats series was a case of an legendary player dominating. Also, many people would put a <u>HEALTHY</u> Celtic team over the current Heat team, which is bound to be hindered with injuries seeing that most of there roster are old. Alos, Gerald Green as a nice shot, hes just inconsistant.Strike-4 pointsThe Philadelpia 76ers actually contended for the playoffs and were close to making it, after their turnaround when Iverson was traded...so they werent that bad. You have to remember, Rajon Rondo was ready last season, and with a season under his belt he is surely ready to play with and especially defend the elite PGs in the NBA. Kendrick Perkins has been dropping weight and he feels motivated for the upcoming season. So the Boston Celtics do have a nice lineup with Rondo-Allen-Pierce-Jefferson-Perkins. You also cant forget about the hard working Leon Powe and Tony Allen.ALL MUST HAVE THEIR OPENING STATEMENTS BEFORE SOMEBODY CAN REPLY TO A POST....Strike...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BluffCityBlue @ Jul 23 2007, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GArenas-3 pointsOne thing, Cleveland wasnt top 5 team last season. Teams better are San Antonio, Phoenix, Utah, Dallas, and Detriot. Despite losing to the Cleveland Cavaliers, they are still the better team...thats series was a case of an legendary player dominating. Also, many people would put a <u>HEALTHY</u> Celtic team over the current Heat team, which is bound to be hindered with injuries seeing that most of there roster are old. Alos, Gerald Green as a nice shot, hes just inconsistant.Strike-4 pointsThe Philadelpia 76ers actually contended for the playoffs and were close to making it, after their turnaround when Iverson was traded...so they werent that bad. You have to remember, Rajon Rondo was ready last season, and with a season under his belt he is surely ready to play with and especially defend the elite PGs in the NBA. Kendrick Perkins has been dropping weight and he feels motivated for the upcoming season. So the Boston Celtics do have a nice lineup with Rondo-Allen-Pierce-Jefferson-Perkins. You also cant forget about the hard working Leon Powe and Tony Allen.ALL MUST HAVE THEIR OPENING STATEMENTS BEFORE SOMEBODY CAN REPLY TO A POST....Strike...</div>Don't forget about iversonfan268, he made a good post too.

Iversonfan-5 points.You pointed out the positive and the bad. But you also have to remember what conference they are in. Given more development and some guys stepping up, the Boston Celtics could easily be in the Conference Finals ready to pulloff an upset. Although, we all know the Eastern Champion most likely wont be up to par with the Western Champs.

<u>YOU CAN NOT REPLY TO A POST UNTIL ALL PARTCIPANTS HAVE MADE THEIR OPENING STATEMENTS. STARTING TOMORROW, THEY WILL BE DELETED.</u>Also, we dont want 10 paragraphs of basicly the same thing. Things that will get you points is pointing out stuff that the common fan doesn't know...its <u>QUALITY, NOT QUANTITY </u>

I disagree with my fellow comrades in thinking that the Celtics are an instant playoff team with the addition of Ray Allen. Sure he is a great talent, and will really help this team in for the upcoming year, but in the end I still feel that they will end up just short of the playoffs with the ninth best record in East. There are many reasons for this, from their own teams short comings, to what the other teams in the league have done. The Celtics may have developed a better scoring team with Ray Allen, but it still doesn't help what the Celtics was worst at, and that's defense and rebounding. They needed a shot blocking presence at the center spot, doesn't have to be a great center, but someone that can block some shots to make this defense more intimidating. Sure they can score more points this year, but this is a team that gave up 4 more points per game last year, than they scored per game. That is an obvious problem with defense, that Ray Allen will not fix for the Boston Celtics. Sure, he might help them score a few more points, but when it comes to those close games they won't have the defense to really hold off the opposing teams players. This was a team that was also not the greatest at rebounding, and finished in the lower half of the league in rebounding differential. For those that do not know, rebounding differential is the difference between your teams rebounding per game, and their opponents rebounding per game. That is not good, and means that they was known to get outrebounded from time to time also. Once again bringing in Ray Allen will not help with that either. Another problem I am seeing from the Celtics is that they are going to have problems with chemistry this season, especially to start the season, which is going to hurt them in the standings at the end of the season. Reason being, is because Doc Rivers is easily the worst coach in the league, and that is a hard obstacle to overcome. Doc Rivers has a hard time settling on a consistent subbing patterns, likes to play favorites, and will play his starters for to long without a break. One day he will give Gerald Green 30 minutes of playing time as he will score 20 points inlcuding 16 in the second quarter, then the next night he will give Gerald Green 10 minutes of playing time. He does this with alot of young players, and how are they supposed to adjust with subbing patterns like that? How is his team supposed to know their roles with playing patterns like that? There is no way they can know what he wants, and it hurts the chemistry of the team, which is why this team wasn't doing very good at all even before the Paul Pierce injury. He also played the starters WAY to long during second half's of the ball game without rest. I saw this during every game with the Orlando Magic, and the Cleveland Cavaliers. They were left tired, and fatigued at the end of the ball game, and didn't have the energy to close out any of the ball games. Terrible coaching can hinder a team as much as anything else in this league can hinder a team. They will start off slow because of that, and have to try to play catch up over the second half of the season.With every other team in the East seamingly getting better this offseason it's not like they are the only team that got better. They still haven't gotten as good as the Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Miami Heat, or Detroit Pistons. So that is four teams already that are better than they are. Then the Toronto Raptors have gotten a better bench, as well as all of their young players will improve for the upcoming season. TJ Ford, Andrea Bargnani, Chris Bosh, are all young, and another year older. They will have better team work, better defense and should be better than the Boston Celtics for the upcoming season. The New Jersey Nets have tried and tested players on their team, plus with Nenad Kristic coming off of the injured list, they will have offensive balance around the court. That will prove to make them a much better team for the upcoming season. That's two teams in New Jersey and Tornto in their own division that will be better, as well as 6 teams overall in the Eastern Division. Then you factor in that Orlando got a scoring threat from the perimeter that will provide much more offensive balance to a team that lacked offense last year, and that should make them very much dangerous. They already had a strong defense, and was a good rebounding team, outrebounding their opponents almost every night. With Rashard Lewis they will definately have a better offense. Plus the addition of Stan Van Gundy give the Magic a much better, and much more proven coach than Doc Rivers. Then you have the Wizards who was one of the best teams in the East last season, and won't loose a step this year. With Nick Young added to their bench, they will be even better than last year. This is a team that should be in contention. You also have the Knicks who have gotten better from last year, and Charlotte, and I think we see them finish just out of playoff contention.I am looking at the playoff seeding as going like this:1. Detroit2. Cleveland3. Miami4. New Jersey5. Chicago6. Toronto7. Orlando8. WashingtonLeaving no room for the Boston Celtics to make the playoffs this season, as the 8 playoff spots should be filled up by other teams.

Valo-6 pointsDoc Rivers playing times being unstable can be a major problem, expecially for a young team. You also brought some unknown information about the rebounding situation. But you have to admit, the team got better and will probably play better if they stay healthy.

Valo-6 pointsIversonfan-5 pointsStrike-4 pointsGArenas-3 points

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iversonfan268 @ Jul 23 2007, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok, to answer the first question yes this does make the team a playoff contender. Ray Allen gives the Celtics another great scorer and another veteran leader and the addition of him should be enough to make this team a playoff contender. Plus don't forget the main reason the Celtics were so bad was because they were hammered with injuries last season. You also can't forget all their younger players now have another year of experience under their belt. As long as they don't get the injury bug again this team should be in the playoffs.However, this was also a bad move my the management. Yeah they have a playoff team now. Still when you look at their roster, do you see a team that could win the East? No, I see a team that wins around 45 games and takes a first or second round exit. So in the end, who cares if this team is a playoff team now? This team is still a long ways from being contenders and I don't see this move keeping Paul Pierce satisfied for very long. They are trying to show Pierce that they want to win now, but this wasn't the right move to do that. I think half the reason Ainge did this was just out of desperation. If they really wanted to turn this team into contenders now, I think they should've kept working Garnett even if he was syaing he didn't want to go to Boston. Garnett really is the only player up for grabs that could turn this team into contenders. They should have patiently kept working on Garnett, and if they still couldn't get him I think it would've just been for the best to part ways with Pierce and finally make rebuilding their main priority. This was just the wrong direction to go in. The only part of this deal I like for the Celtics is they got rid of Wally's contract. Personally I think parting ways with Paul Pierce would've been the best thing to do. I realize it would be hard. I mean the Sixers just parted ways with AI for the first time in 11 yearsa and it's still kind've hard seeing him in another uniform. So I know how it feels. However in the end it was the best thing for both Iverson and the sixers organization and I think it would be the same for Pierce and Boston. I mean look at all the young talent they have. There's very few teams in the NBA with as much young talent as the Cletics and those few teams who do have it are all rebuilding. For one, they could've kept their pick and they would've gotten another great player in the future in Green, Brewer, or Yi(hopefully not him). Plus by trading PP they would've gotten even more youth in that trade. This team would be looking great for the future. Instead they're just trying to win now, when they've still failed to do anything to make themselves real contenders. Ray Allen just isn't the answer to solving all their problems. So yes this makes them a playoff team but it was also a bad move and the wrong direction to go in.</div>But why get rid of Pierce if there isn't any chemistry problems between him in the team. I know the Celtics wont trade away Pierce and that is the right move in my opinion. The Celtics will be able to win a championship in a few years when their younger players progress and get more talent reliability and stuff. Almost everyone knows they wont win the championship this year but we are looking into the future and not the present right now. But the only problem is they will probably have one shot at a championship with age issues with Allen and Pierce retiring and the Celtics probably wont be a good team. Thats when they may regret the trade they made back a few years on draft day.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strike3 @ Jul 23 2007, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But why get rid of Pierce if there isn't any chemistry problems between him in the team. I know the Celtics wont trade away Pierce and that is the right move in my opinion. The Celtics will be able to win a championship in a few years when their younger players progress and get more talent reliability and stuff. Almost everyone knows they wont win the championship this year but we are looking into the future and not the present right now. But the only problem is they will probably have one shot at a championship with age issues with Allen and Pierce retiring and the Celtics probably wont be a good team. Thats when they may regret the trade they made back a few years on draft day.</div>Because Paul Pierce doesn't want to wait to be a contender when he's older and not the leader of the team. He wants to win now while he's still a top 10 player in the league and the leader of that team. It's simple as that. If you can't mae him happy why keep him around where he's not happy. Why not give him a chance to be one of the leaders of a team that can contend? Your looking at this very simple mindedly(sp?). You make it sound like if they can't make a contending team now that Pierce will just be happy that they tried and he'll gladly stay there and continue losing while he's in his prime. It's not gonna work like that. If they can't make themselves contenders NOW Pierce is going to want out. So why not make him happy and trade him and get some more youth in return to further help their rebuilding process.

Strike3-1 pointIversonfan-2 points

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strike3 @ Jul 23 2007, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But why get rid of Pierce if there isn't any chemistry problems between him in the team. I know the Celtics wont trade away Pierce and that is the right move in my opinion. The Celtics will be able to win a championship in a few years when their younger players progress and get more talent reliability and stuff. Almost everyone knows they wont win the championship this year but we are looking into the future and not the present right now. But the only problem is they will probably have one shot at a championship with age issues with Allen and Pierce retiring and the Celtics probably wont be a good team. Thats when they may regret the trade they made back a few years on draft day.</div>That's the problem with this comment, is where you say when the young players progress they will win a championship. They need the time to play and establish themselves, and with Pierce and Allen there, that is going to take away from alot of playing time for these younger guys. Your looking at two guys that can play 30 plus minutes per night, only giving guys like Gerald Green and Tony Allen 18 minutes at the most of playing time a night, considering most games are only 48 minutes, unless they go into over time. They won't play to many overtime games, compared to normal 48 minute games, so that is going to leave them getting only about 18 minutes of playing time. It's hard for young players to mature like that. We have seen to many times in the past where the young players need to move to start reaching their potential. In the cases of Tracy Mcgrady, Chauncey Billups, Joe Johnson, Mike Miller and others like this, they needed to move to a new place to expand what they could do. Then you add to it, they are not going to get reliable minutes, with a coach like Doc Rivers. They are never going to be able to settle down into a certain role, because they won't know what their roles is. You can't build a championship team off a group of players that do not know their roles on the court. So that is going to hinder their potential, and ability to get better, even more than it already does.Finally, as long as they have Doc Rivers, they will never be a championship team no matter the talent they have. You pretty much need a top tier coach to be a championship contender. Look at all of the past championship winning coach's since 2000, Greg Popovich, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and Larry Brown. All four of those are hall of famers, and four of the greatest coach's to have ever lived. You can't win with spotty coaching, and I don't see the Celtics ever wanting to get rid of Doc Rivers as long as Ainge is around, because of their long lasting friendship. This team will not win a championship how they are built now.

Valo- +4 pointsTopic will end in 2 hours

Topic will end in 1 hour

Thanks guys for your posts, that should do it for Day 1 of our Atlantic Division preview. Tomorrow we will be going off-topic just a tad as we get your views on the Tim Donaghy scandal... You won't want to miss this controversial topic. :dribble: Day 1 Totalsvalo35- 10iversonfan268- 7Strike3- 5GArenas- 3

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (808Hornetsfan @ Jul 23 2007, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Thanks guys for your posts, that should do it for Day 1 of our Atlantic Division preview. Tomorrow we will be going off-topic just a tad as we get your views on the Tim Donaghy scandal... You won't want to miss this controversial topic. :dribble:

Day 1 Totals
valo35- 10
iversonfan268- 7
Strike3- 5
GArenas- 3</div>
I had a nice one-day run

Should've posted more than once though.

Haha...just be mroe active tomorrow.

Valo35 has a small lead over the rest of the competition, but can he score points with this today's controversial topic?? Let's find out...Due to some serious matters going on in the NBA, we are going to be pushing the New York Knicks preview to tomorrow along with the Philadelphia 76ers preview. After both topics are discussed, tomorrow night we will make our first cut of the week and three will move on to the next round.Out of Bounds- Special TopicMost of you should know who Tom Donaghy is at this point, this quote from ESPN pretty much sums it up: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>NBA referee Tim Donaghy is under investigation by the FBI for allegations that he bet on games that he officiated over the past two seasons and that he made calls affecting the point spread in games, multiple sources said.Donaghy, a 13-year veteran of the league, is aware of the investigation and resigned from the NBA recently.</div>Now if he is convicted of these crimes along with other referees, the NBA is going to have to deal with a lot of angry people who will believe that games have been fixed by this man and possibly others. Mavs owner Mark Cuban has publicly criticized referees in the past, but never has there been a more shocking story like this especially after we witnessed a very controversial playoffs in which the officiating had a lot to do with the outcomes of games.So guys, what exactly should the NBA to handle this situation and keep it from escalating to the next level? Also, how does this effect the integrity of the NBA, are fans going to lose interest if in fact games in the past have been fixed??

The NBA needs to research other refree's and make sure that they're not also involved in a similar situation. This is a very unfortonate turn of events for the NBA, there will be alot of questions like "How many games were fixed" and "Did the NBA know about this?" After a couple years of certain players, such as Dwayne Wade or LeBron James, being favored by the refree people will begin to wonder if the NBA has been fixing certain games to bring in viewers.

David Stern needs to make sure that he informs the NBA's fans that this is not the case. The integrity about the NBA is being challenged now, and it's up to Stern to bring the good name of the NBA back.

If a fan is a die-hard fan of their team, then this news will not sway the fan from watching NBA basketball. Ratings are dropping, no doubt about that and now with this new news of games being potentially fixed, new viewers may be turned off from watching games.

There's not much Stern can do, but he has to do all that he can do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 24 2007, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The NBA needs to research other refree's and make sure that they're not also involved in a similar situation. This is a very unfortonate turn of events for the NBA, there will be alot of questions like "How many games were fixed" and "Did the NBA know about this?" After a couple years of certain players, such as Dwayne Wade or LeBron James, being favored by the refree people will begin to wonder if the NBA has been fixing certain games to bring in viewers.David Stern needs to make sure that he informs the NBA's fans that this is not the case. The integrity about the NBA is being challenged now, and it's up to Stern to bring the good name of the NBA back.If a fan is a die-hard fan of their team, then this news will not sway the fan from watching NBA basketball. Ratings are dropping, no doubt about that and now with this new news of games being potentially fixed, new viewers may be turned off from watching games.There's not much Stern can do, but he has to do all that he can do.</div>Yeah I agree with the first statement. David Stern should investigate each referee this off season because if he does that we may find some interesting things. This is turning some fans away from the NBA but that shouldn't be too bad if Stern can prove it was a bad turn of events and the NBA wont let this happen again.I doubt many people will turn away from the NBA unless this is just a sport they like to watch every once in a while and they do other things they like better than to watch NBA games.Every sport goes through things like this whether its numerous crimes made by players or a lockout of a season. These don't mean that now that this happened ratings will go way way down. People have to relax and let things play out it will usually turnout in teaching someone or people a big lesson. Now looking back at some games he officiated it does make me mad but I know that it will make the NBA more aware of things like this. Everything happens for a reason.

GArenas-2 pointsDavid Stern can do alotve stuff, he can put together an commission to review every game that suspected refs participated in. Also, you mentioned ratings are dropping, but you havent shown any proof.Strike-3 pointsVery true statement about the fans not going away from the NBA. Also, you made a good point about how all sports go through these situations, which the NBA has shown to deal with situations very well and arguebly the best outve the three major sports.I love how yalls posts arent 10 effing paragraphs...you said what you wanted to say and you didnt drag it out. Remember, once all the opening statements are made...you can post another 9 times to argue your point.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BluffCityBlue @ Jul 24 2007, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GArenas-2 points

David Stern can do alotve stuff, he can put together an commission to review every game that suspected refs participated in. Also, you mentioned ratings are dropping, but you havent shown any proof.</div>
The commisioner can not do that much to keep the name of the NBA honest. As I said, he should make sure that other refree's are not in the same situation that Donaghy was in. If another refree's is found to have been effecting the outcome of a game, the result could potentially be very damaging to the NBA.

Both the finals and playoffs lost viewers last season and the NBA has been slowly going down in popularity since after the NBA on NBC. Here are the TV ratings for regular season games since 1996:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>NBC 1996 5.0
NBC 1997 4.7
NBC 1998 4.6
NBC 1999 4.3
NBC 2000 3.3
NBC 2001 3.0
NBC 2002 N/A
ABC 2003 2.6
ABC 2004 2.4
ABC 2005 2.2
ABC 2006 2.2</div>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bask...Nielsen_ratings

As you can see it has been slowly decreasing. In 2003, when the NBA left NBC, the ratings dropped .4, despite this not being a big drop it has continued to slowly decerease since then. You can see similar patterns in the finals ratings:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>NBC 2000 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Indiana Pacers 2 11.6
NBC 2001 Los Angeles Lakers 4, Philadelphia 76ers 1 12.1
NBC 2002 Los Angeles Lakers 4, New Jersey Nets 0 10.2
ABC 2003 San Antonio Spurs 4, New Jersey Nets 2 6.5
ABC 2004 Detroit Pistons 4, Los Angeles Lakers 1 11.5
ABC 2005 San Antonio Spurs 4, Detroit Pistons 3 8.2
ABC 2006 Miami Heat 4, Dallas Mavericks 2 8.5
ABC 2007 San Antonio Spurs 4, Cleveland Cavaliers 0 6.2</div>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bask...Nielsen_ratings

The ratings have also dropped here. Although the 6.2 and 6.5 were likely because the matchups were not exciting, the 2005 NBA finals was not considered an entertaining series yet Miami/Dallas who I personally considered a very exiting finals was only .3 higher.

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I do not expect these ratings to continue to drop at this pace. However, the ratings have dropped, the NBA has to be careful that events such as this do not continue to happen as it may make matters worse.

We're going to allow you to make a second post before all others have made theirs since it does take a while for everyone to make their opening statements. So GArenas you will get points for that, thank you.

GArenas-4 pointsWhen looking at the seasonal ratings for NBC/ABC, you also have to factor in games from NBAtv, TNT and NBA League Pass...they are drawing more viewers away from ABC. Also, losing viewers in the past is quite irrelevent to the topic, yet you made your point. Good post.We want these type of posts...showing proof, evidence and things that are pointed out that are FACT, to prove your point.

I completely agree with Garenas that there really isn't to much that David Stern can do about this set of circumstances to make it up to the NBA fans. The most he can do is make a public speach where he says he's sorry to the NBA fans, Coach's and to the Players that play hard about what this refereee has done and that there is not another referee in the league jeopardising the integrity of the game like this. Past that, if someone thinks the NBA is rigged, there is not much that David Stern can really do to stop them from thinking that. Think about how many people thought the NBA was rigged, even before this scandal with Tim Donaghy came out, alot during that Miami Heat finals where Dwayne Wade got alot of fouls his way. If they thought the league was rigged then, there is really nothing that David Stern can do now to make those people think otherwise.However, one thing that has got to be somewhat good in his eyes, is that every other league is battling with their own controversy. Major League Baseball is dealing with Steroids that is making it look like players are having unfair advantages all over the place. The NFL is dealing with people getting arrested left and right, for strip club shootings, and dog fighting. NHL just came off of a lock out two seasons ago, and many teams were struggling for fans. Despite all of this stuff, these leagues are starting to show that they are able to draw fans still, even when things are looking their worst. That should provide encouragement to David Stern, that with a good quality of product this league can end up making out of this and being able to get some fans back. That's the encouragement that David Stern should have, but as Garenas has put it, there is really not much he can do to sway opinion on whether the league is rigged or not, people are going to think it no matter what.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BluffCityBlue @ Jul 24 2007, 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GArenas-4 pointsWhen looking at the seasonal ratings for NBC/ABC, you also have to factor in games from NBAtv, TNT and NBA League Pass...they are drawing more viewers away from ABC. Also, losing viewers in the past is quite irrelevent to the topic, yet you made your point. Good post.We want these type of posts...showing proof, evidence and things that are pointed out that are FACT, to prove your point.</div>You can factor that in or the seasonal ratings, but it really shouldn't play that much of a part in it. During the week when most games are being played, there are hardly ever any games on NBC/ABC. NBC/ABC show the weekend afternooon games for the most part, when most other games are not being played. Considering lots of the other games that are on weekends are still played at night time starting around 7-7:15 at night some where, those don't play to much of a part in taking away from the NBC/ABC afternoon games.Another thing Stern could do to bring up some of the ratings, is just put a better quality of work out onto the court. With 30 NBA teams, you don't see teams that are stacked with talent, like there used to be back in the early 90's and 80's. The talent level on each team is much worse, and we are seeing alot more people that should not be getting alot of playing time, getting alot of playing time. If they was to get rid of just the bottom four selling teams in the league, the talent level on each team from the starters to the bench would go back up and it would be a much more competitive league. That would allow for a better quality of play, which would provide a better quality of entertainment. What I find funny, is that those ratings that Garenas showed, started going down, about the same time that the Raptors and Grizzlies were introduced, and there was around 29 teams in the league instead of the 27 before that. That is when the talent started getting stretched more thing, and the talent levels on each team started to get worse compared to before.

Valo-6 points combined for both postsWhen you have NBAtv, League Pass etc., alotve people dont bother with ABC(I dont, I hate the broadcasting, and most others do too) cause there is so many other better sources. Also, you cant prove that the talent level now is way lower than it was 20 years ago...but thats irrelevent. But you do make a good point about the expansion teams which may be a reason the talent level team to team isnt as high...but its certainly impossible to compare the NBAs talent as a whole to its 20 yrs ago. GOod posts.Iversonfan hasnt posted yet, but yall are cleared to reply to posts now.