Around The Horn 1.03

Discussion in 'S2 Sports Bar' started by 808Hornetsfan, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. Memphology

    Memphology BBW VIP

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    GArenas-3 pointsValo-5 pointsGood posts....keep them coming
     
  2. GArenas

    GArenas Wiz Fo Champz

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    [quote name='valo35' post='426247' date='Jul 25 2007, 08:21 PM']However, from a teamwork standpoint, I do not see this as a good trade for the Knicks. They was so close last year to making the playoffs, and without a few key injuries, Particularly to David Lee this team could have made the playoffs. With Randolph, I must disagree with Garneas saying this will help the Knicks. I think him there will make them worse than last year, even if talent wise he is a better scorer than David Lee. Randolph is a lasy player, that does not hustle on the defensive end, and does not like to pass on offensive end. That sounds alot like Eddy Curry, giving you two of the same type of players on the court down low.[/quote]
    Defensively the Knicks are weak, they struggle when it comes to post-defense because Curry and Randolph do not stand strong in the post like other quality big-men. However, when you look at the Eastern Conference, most teams are either weak offensively or defensively. We know that Washington can't stop a three, Cleveland struggles scoring in offensive sets, Chicago lacks post prescence, Orlando lacked a solid perimiter game last season, and New Jersey, similar to Chicago, only scoring big-men is Nenand Krstic. Lacking certain neccesities that seperate a good team from a great team is very common in the Eastern Conference. Their lack of post-defense will create problems but it shouldn't force them in a very sticky situation like it would have in the West.

    I do agree that he does take too many shots, but his game is not simply banging in the post, you do see Randolph take mid-range jumpers so 46% is understandable.

    Shaq averages 3.5 turnovers per game, pair that with Wade who averages 5.75 and they combine for a large amount of turnovers.

    Isiah Thomas has said himself that the Knicks will be a very post oriented team on offense. The three pointers, which the Knicks struggled with last season shooting 34%, will be shot less. This could work out well or be a disaster, however as I said before Randolph will likely take more mid-range jumpers this season.
     
  3. valo35

    valo35 BBW VIP

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    [quote name='GArenas' post='426322' date='Jul 25 2007, 09:28 PM']Defensively the Knicks are weak, they struggle when it comes to post-defense because Curry and Randolph do not stand strong in the post like other quality big-men. However, when you look at the Eastern Conference, most teams are either weak offensively or defensively. We know that Washington can't stop a three, Cleveland struggles scoring in offensive sets, Chicago lacks post prescence, Orlando lacked a solid perimiter game last season, and New Jersey, similar to Chicago, only scoring big-men is Nenand Krstic. Lacking certain neccesities that seperate a good team from a great team is very common in the Eastern Conference.[/quote]While you are right that alot of teams have problems with stuff, these teams have shown the ability to play through it, or play at a pace as to where this won't hurt them. While Chicago does not have a solid post scoring option, they have four players the can combine to score major points on the wings, as well as players that are solid offensive rebounders and can help contribute offensively. New Jersey and Washington played at a pace where their lack of solid defense would not hurt them to much, so they were able to get away with not being to good at defense. The Cavaliers played at a slow enough pace, to where their defense took over, and Lebron James was able to score enough to cause problems. The Magic improved this year in what hurt them last year, as well as played at a slow enough pace to where their defense helped them and the other teams could not score to much on them. So all of those teams did stuff to mask what they were bad at.The Knicks however will be bad defensively, and will not be able to play at a fast pace with both Curry and Randolp. Both are fat, and slow, and won't be able to cover up for their defense being so terrible. Not only are they terrible defensively in the post, they are terrible defensively on the perimeter also. That is a major problem, for a team that plays a slower paced game, and will play even slower this year with two slow big men like that.
    There are plenty of other people that take alot of mid-range shots, and don't shoot that kind of percentage. Elton Brand shoots mid range alot and doesn't do that, Amare Stoudemire took alot more mid range shots this year, and shot a good percentage, Pau Gasol shoots the mid range a decent amount, and doesn't have that kind of percentage. So his 46% is still not understandable to me, for a low post scoring option.
    That is completely different, as that is a guard and a center combining for that much. That is not a power forward averaging 3.2 turnovers per game, and a center who averages nearly four a game. That is combined 6 turnovers per game last year, from the post alone that is going to be in the same lineup this year. Then you factor in that sometimes Stephon Marbury and Jamal Crawford are not the best of decision makers and this could be a very rockey team with turnovers this year.
    Even if they shoot less three pointers per game, it's still going to hurt not being a 3 point shooting team. Without any three point shooting, the other teams can switch to zone, making it harder to get the ball down low to Randolph and Curry, much the way teams did to the Magic this past season. That will result in even more turnovers, which is a good reason why the Magic were at the top of the league in turnovers per game. So they need three point shooting, just to open up more lanes to get the ball inside to the big men. This was an area that was desperately needed, and ignored by the Knicks.
     
  4. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    Sorry for the delay guys, as you can see we've all had a busy day. We are going to bump the Sixers preview to tomorrow and double that with the New Jersey Nets preview. I am very sorry for the inconvenience.
     
  5. GArenas

    GArenas Wiz Fo Champz

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    BCB2 still needs to give out points for me and Valo's recent posts.

    Also, you should start the new topic now so we can do two today.
     
  6. Memphology

    Memphology BBW VIP

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    GAreanas-4pointsValo-4pointsBoth pretty good points.
     
  7. GArenas

    GArenas Wiz Fo Champz

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BluffCityBlue @ Jul 26 2007, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GAreanas-4points

    Valo-4points
    Both pretty good points.</div>

    I think Valo is un-catchable. :cry2:

    Are we gonna skip today in the ATH since there's no topic up by now?
     
  8. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    It's up to you guys, if you still want to try and catch up to valo35 just say the word and I'll post the next topic, if not we'll just wrap it up and I'll ask each of you to post what you think the final standings will look like.
     
  9. GArenas

    GArenas Wiz Fo Champz

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (808Hornetsfan @ Jul 26 2007, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's up to you guys, if you still want to try and catch up to valo35 just say the word and I'll post the next topic, if not we'll just wrap it up and I'll ask each of you to post what you think the final standings will look like.</div>
    I'm not just going to give up, it will be near impossible to catch Valo but I'd at least like to try. Besides it will add more points for me on the all-time list.

    Besides, this is pretty fun.

    I have 16 points right now I believe.
     
  10. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    Aight, let me tally up the points and we'll get started with the Sixers preview...
     
  11. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    Day 3 Totalsvalo35- 9(25)GArenas- 7(16)Strike3- 0(8)<strike>iversonfan268- 0(7)</strike>
     
  12. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    iversonfan268 is now out of the game, and it looks like Strike3 will be out as well unless he can catch up to GArenas who has an eight-point advantage. But will anyone be able to catch valo35. who now has 25 points and is only 12 points away from tying the all-time record? Let's find out...<span style="color:#FF0000">Philadelphia 76ers Preview</span>The Sixers may have lost Allen Iverson last season, but that doesn't mean this team is in the rebuilding process for much more longer. With a few acquisitions in the Draft last month, added to the roster that already has Andre Iguodala, Kyle Korver and Louis Williams. Guys, which one of these young Philly stars is most likely to break out this season?
     
  13. GArenas

    GArenas Wiz Fo Champz

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    Last year after the all-star break when Webber had been bought out for some time, the Sixers began playing playoff caliber basketball. Going 18-11 after the all-star break was, sadly, one of the best performances in the eastern conference. If the Iverson trade and Webber buy out had happened sooner, I could have seen the Sixers making the playoffs. Andre Miller and Andre Iguadola, who I would consider the core of this squad, were playing great basketball.

    Pretty much the entire Atlantic division has the potential to make the playoffs. However, the Sixers did not make any great strides this off-season which leads me to believe that this team has not gotten any better since last season. Neither Thaddeus Young nor Jason Smith will be the final piece to the double Andre core. Both will be very capable role-players but the Sixers should have looked at making a big trade on draft night. So now this leads us to the main question, which one of the Sixers young studs will step up and be the third option?

    First off, neither Jason Smith nor Thaddeus Young will be great contributers on the Sixers. Both are going into their rookie years, Young will likely be backing AI v2 while Smith is backing up Dalembert. Both will be able to contribute off the bench but won't be the solid third option.

    We all know that Iguadola will be the #1 scoring option next season and I can see him putting up 21/7/7 numbers next season while leading the Sixers. Louis Williams has struggled in the NBA so far in his career. However, after an awesome summer league performance and potentially more playing time I could see him improving his numbers. He won't breakout but will hopefully put up a solid 6-7 PPG.

    With few options, I think the Sixers will ask Korver to take more shots next season. Korver is a dynamite shooter, although he is one dimensional, he's easily the Sixers best choice. Now Philly probabely doesn't want Andre Miller to be a scoring option next year as his jumper is very weak and they would like him to mainly focus on setting up the offense. Samuel Dalembert will be able to contribute few more points than he already does as his offensive post game is very limited. Willie Green may end up getting a few more looks but he can't be relied on to take a big scoring load.

    So, really the Sixers young guys won't be able to blossom into a solid third option for the team. Out of all the young guys, Kyle Korver and Andre Iguadola are the only one's I see accepting a bigger offensive load next year.
     
  14. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    I'll take over the judging duties for now until BluffCityBlue returns...+4 for GArenas, you're right on the money saying that these youngsters will not get the chance to receive playing time, nor are they even ready to take over a leadership role. Korver is a nice option in the backcourt and gives them much needed outside shooting, the only thing that's held him back in the past has been inconsistency. After a much improved year I agree that he is going to surprise a lot of people this season.
     
  15. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    I'll give Strike3 another hour to post, after that we're going to have to cut him and GArenas and valo35 will go head-to-head in the Final Showdown.
     
  16. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    Well, that's it for Day 4. It looks like Strike3 will be going home tonight, but his eight points scored will always be remembered atop the Leaderboard. Now, only valo and GArenas remain. Can valo hold onto a five-point lead, or will GArenas make a magical run at this week's title?? We'll find out tomorrow as we preview the New Jersey Nets and the Toronto Raptors...Day 4 Totalsvalo35- 0(25)GArenas- 4(20)<strike>Strike3- 0(8)iversonfan268- 0(7)</strike>
     
  17. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    Okay guys, it's time for The Final Showdown. Today we're going to be previewing two teams so make sure you can get all the points you can. valo35 only has a five point advantage at this point, but GArenas is still in it and can fight this thing until the end. So, without further or do let's take a look at the New Jersey Nets!<span style="color:#000080">New Jersey Nets Preview</span>It was said that this team was in desperate need of a young SG if Vince Carter was to leave in free agency, well that plan never came into fruition as the Nets re-signed VC to a multi-year deal. With a superstar guard/wing now back in action, the Nets are all set to make another playoff run. To make things better, young C Nenad Krstic is ready to return after a long season on the DL, and new additions through the draft and free agency makes this roster look as good as it has in a long time. But, can this Nets team finally make that magical run to a championship like they have been expecting for many years now, or has time run out for Jason Kidd and co. as age and injuries continue to plague this team?
     
  18. GArenas

    GArenas Wiz Fo Champz

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    First of all, I would like to say that age will be no problem for the Nets next season. Despite the fact that Jason Kidd is now 34, last season he showed no sign of slowing down as he grabbed a ton of triple doubles and was very hard to stop through the playoffs. Kidd averaging a triple double in the series was one of the main reasons the Nets pulled through with a 6 game victory over the Raptors. Richard Jefferson is only 26 so he shouldn't be slowing down for a good 6-7 more seasons. Vince Carter is 30 years old but you can't expect Vince Carter to slow down at this age. I'm sure this Nets squad can go one more season without Kidd really starting to slow down.

    As for the Nets making a championship run, I doubt it will happen. Even after adding a great rebounder in Jamaal Magloire and an awesome help defender/hustle player in Sean Williams, not to mention that Nenand Krstic coming back healthy will create some solid big-men production. When I look at the Nets, I do see them winning the division but their squad still doesn't compare to Miami, Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and even Washington.

    Last year the Nets played through and injury plagued season which made them fall down to the 6th seed, yet they were still able to beat out the Raptors and play the Cavaliers in the second round. Of course a couple of mental errors and lack of Nenand Krstic forced the Nets to fall to a young Cavs squad that would go on to make the NBA finals. This season, the few additions that they have, are not going to make a big enough impact to take them past the second round. The Nets role-players are still nothing to die for and Lawrence Frank is also a very mediocre offensive coach. This will hold the Nets back from the Finals.

    I can only see the Nets making it to the second round this season, maybe ECF if Sean Williams plays up to his potential but the ECF still seems too far for the Nets to reach with their current squad.
     
  19. valo35

    valo35 BBW VIP

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    I am just not a huge fan of this New Jersey team, and even with them getting Nenad Kristic back, I do not see them as being able to really do much more past just make the first round of the playoffs. They really have not impressed me, even with Nenad on the court.First off, as a team they have terrible and soft big men, and always has. For Jason Kidd to have lead this team in rebounding last year, says alot to how good their big men are. Nenad is not a solid rebounding option either, so it's not like he is going to be bringing a great deal of rebounding to the team for this upcoming season. With Moore leaving to Sacramento, Collins will be stepping into the starting lineup more than likely, who is more of a liability than a help half the time. He is strong defensively, but picks up fouls very quickly helping the other team get into bonus each quarter. He is terrible on the offensive end of the court, has bad hands, and just generally doesn't help with much of anything. Sean Williams is another player that can block shots, but is kind of skinny defensively, picks up alot of fouls quickly, and is not a solid offensive player either. He turns the ball over alot, especially if the pace gets turned up, and just makes bad decisions. Kristic is a decent scorer from the center spot, but you really have to wonder how well that knee is going to be, and how rusty he is going to be for a while. Even when he does get better, he was a soft big man that takes alot of jumpers from mid-range. While he can make those, he's moves actually on the block are quite limited. So it makes you wonder how well he is going to do down there for this upcoming season.Their coaching, and in-game decision making is terrible as well. The team they have now settles for way to many three's in my opinion. They have players that are better at attacking off the dribble like Richard Jeffeson and Vince Carter, yet they took alot of three's this past year. They don't play to what their players do best, which is a knock on the coach. Last year in the Cleveland series, when Jefferson got the ball on the baseline, they could not stop him from driving and getting to the lane. They should have ran alot more plays that would have got Jefferson the ball more on the baseline, so he could create. When you combine this coaching, with the big men, I really do not believe they will make it past the first round of the playoffs for the upcoming season.
     
  20. GArenas

    GArenas Wiz Fo Champz

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    [quote name='valo35' post='428371' date='Jul 27 2007, 12:39 PM']First off, as a team they have terrible and soft big men, and always has. For Jason Kidd to have lead this team in rebounding last year, says alot to how good their big men are. Nenad is not a solid rebounding option either, so it's not like he is going to be bringing a great deal of rebounding to the team for this upcoming season.[/quote]
    The addition of Jamaal Magloire and Sean Williams were meant to give the Nets tougher rebounders. I expect Magloire to lead the team in rebounding next season. Also, had Krstic played the entire 06-07 season, he likely would have led the team in rebounding.

    Firstly, I believe Collins was starting last season at PF with Moore at C. However, he may not start this year, I wouldn't be surprised if the Nets decide to have a big front-line and start Magloire/Krstic. The only purpose to have Collins on the floor is for defensive purposes, you very rarely see him relied on in an offensive position.

    Krstic won't be relied on as much as he was in 05-06 now that Magloire was added to the squad. By no means is Jamaal Magloire a solid offensive option but it will still take some load off of Krstic while he gets his feet back under him.

    I completely agree, Frank has not done a great job coaching offense. The team's decision making is really what cost them the Cavs series.
     

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