Where do you come up with that? The only reason the awards might be out of whack is they give credit to a player for his past excellence. Nash not only deserved his 2 MVP's, he may well have deserved the following one. Dirk won the award and was more than a qualified choice to win it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you implying Nash's bball IQ is low because he didnt win a ring? Your statement about Paul and Williams still didnt answer my question: Do you think they have LOW bball IQs? And to add: lower than Walker's in 2006 when he got a ring?</div> I'm implying that it's REALLY rare for young players like KC has on his team to be NBA champs. Unless they're Shaq's (prime of his career) teammates. And that players get better, IQ-wise and otherwise, as they get into their primes. What point are you trying to make about Paul and Williams? Both are already looking like locks for the HOF if they maintain their current levels of play (which took them years to reach). None of KC's players are looking like locks, but as I said, the jury's out. </div> I am responding to the point where you said that those NBA players KC picked have low BBall IQs because they have not won anything in the league. Im bringing up Paul, Williams, and kidd because they have not won a ring yet they have high IQs. Yet by the logic presented in the statement towards KC's player, Paul, Williams, and Kidd don't have high IQs on the basketball court. I'm not attacking your statement about KC's players but rather the logic behind the statement. walker was a bad example on my part considering I've only seen him play after his early Celtics days. </div> Oh, I really just felt like dumping on KC's team like he does everyone else's. My point is still perfectly valid, tho. Relative to what their own IQ's are likely to be, they're low.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny crane)</div><div class='quotemain'>Where do you come up with that?</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, when the facts aren't on your side, the best strategy is to attack the person you're debating. Old, worn out tactic.</div> What facts have you presented about Bogut and LMA? </div> They're not winners in the NBA. </div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The only reason the awards might be out of whack is they give credit to a player for his past excellence. Nash not only deserved his 2 MVP's, he may well have deserved the following one. Dirk won the award and was more than a qualified choice to win it.</div> Really? I though his first MVP was well deserved. The second one was controversial considering a lot of people started to see that the system he was in really went well with his strengths and hiding his weaknesses. EDIT: Can someone teach me how to edit when trying to multi-quote? :<
I would also dispute his claim that JR Smith has a low basketball IQ. The guy's a kid and stupid like a kid in real world things. As a pro basketball player, he put up 12 points per game in just 19 minutes and 18 PPG in the playoffs. His PER was 20.9 and he held opposing SGs to a 15.4 PER for a very impressive 5.5 differential. Similar to his prior season. The guy's a 4 year player who's not even 23 years old yet.
So you think BBallIQ=PER now? Ridiculous. Take note, this completely contradicts this statement since JR is not an owner of a champ ring: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, when the facts aren't on your side, the best strategy is to attack the person you're debating. Old, worn out tactic.</div> What facts have you presented about Bogut and LMA? </div> They're not winners in the NBA. </div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would also dispute his claim that JR Smith has a low basketball IQ. The guy's a kid and stupid like a kid in real world things. As a pro basketball player, he put up 12 points per game in just 19 minutes and 18 PPG in the playoffs. His PER was 20.9 and he held opposing SGs to a 15.4 PER for a very impressive 5.5 differential. Similar to his prior season. The guy's a 4 year player who's not even 23 years old yet.</div> Thank you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny crane)</div><div class='quotemain'>Where do you come up with that?</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, when the facts aren't on your side, the best strategy is to attack the person you're debating. Old, worn out tactic.</div> What facts have you presented about Bogut and LMA? </div> They're not winners in the NBA. </div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The only reason the awards might be out of whack is they give credit to a player for his past excellence. Nash not only deserved his 2 MVP's, he may well have deserved the following one. Dirk won the award and was more than a qualified choice to win it.</div> Really? I though his first MVP was well deserved. The second one was controversial considering a lot of people started to see that the system he was in really went well with his strengths and hiding his weaknesses. EDIT: Can someone teach me how to edit when trying to multi-quote? :< </div> I think it depends on what MVP means. Nash is clearly the most valuable player to his team. Take him away and the team outright sucks, and with him it's a 50+ winner. Take Dirk away from the Mavs and there's a plenty good team there that'll win a lot of games.
and if you remove Vince from the Nets they are shittier than before. Take away a key player from a team and most of the time the team will become worse.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you think BBallIQ=PER? Ridiculous.</div> PER is an objective measure of the guy's performance. He played 19 MPG on a team that had Iverson at his position. Double his minutes and he's a 25 PPG scorer with 4 RPG and 4 APG and 1.6 SPG. You don't fill out the whole stat sheet like that if you don't have a very good IQ for the game. The PER numbers show he was a much better player than the guys he played against (for the vast most-part). As opposed to... a subjective measure, like how rapidly your sphincter twitches when his name is mentioned. Which is fine, but should be taken for what that is.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>and if you remove Vince from the Nets they are shittier than before. Take away a key player from a team and most of the time the team will become worse.</div> Take Nash away and you have a team that wins 55 games and turn it into a 30 win team. Yes, he makes that much of a difference in wins for his team. If you can find another player with the same kind of impact (no, Vince ain't it), then you have an MVP candidate. Hey, a healthy Chris Paul meant a measurable 17 wins difference over the previous season. And he was considered a strong contender for MVP and for good reason.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you think BBallIQ=PER? Ridiculous.</div> PER is an objective measure of the guy's performance. He played 19 MPG on a team that had Iverson at his position. Double his minutes and he's a 25 PPG scorer with 4 RPG and 4 APG and 1.6 SPG. You don't fill out the whole stat sheet like that if you don't have a very good IQ for the game. The PER numbers show he was a much better player than the guys he played against (for the vast most-part). As opposed to... a subjective measure, like how rapidly your sphincter twitches when his name is mentioned. Which is fine, but should be taken for what that is. </div> So he's talented. Not a player with high bball IQ. You are trying to use use numbers to legitimize IQ. What about Jason Collins or Adrian Griffin? Guys that most of the time were not better than their opposition talent wise but have high BBall IQs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you think BBallIQ=PER? Ridiculous.</div> My lord, he actually did attempt to quantify basketball IQ! With PER nonetheless! Denny: This whole thing didn't start about my players winning a championship or being too young. You said I had 3 young, stupid players on my team. That was never the case, and still isn't. Like I said, Bogut and LMA have above average bball IQ. Your claim was unfounded, and the basis that you stated for this whole argument was, and still is, whacky as hell. It seems others agree with me on that. As for the dumping on "everyone else's teams". I said that Outlaw and JR Smith had low bball IQ, which they do. I didn't crucify his team. I just stated that it was a stupid team and then Claud PMS'ed about getting criticism without even trying to have discourse on it. You are good at avoiding directed questions and changing the direction of the conversation, though. Nice job.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>and if you remove Vince from the Nets they are shittier than before. Take away a key player from a team and most of the time the team will become worse.</div> Take Nash away and you have a team that wins 55 games and turn it into a 30 win team. Yes, he makes that much of a difference in wins for his team. If you can find another player with the same kind of impact (no, Vince ain't it), then you have an MVP candidate. Hey, a healthy Chris Paul meant a measurable 17 wins difference over the previous season. And he was considered a strong contender for MVP and for good reason. </div> Reword your first sentence because i have no clue what you are saying there. And i used Vince as an example because he was the best player on his team. And as for Nash and the system of the suns, put Kidd with Amare and Marion and see what would happen. And interesting that you bring up Paul and his impact when he didnt win the award. who was it this year? KG of the revamped Celtics? Kobe and the new looks Lakers? And give me a straight answer to my question about Paul, Williams, and kidd. Because I sure as hell havent seen one.
I'm now dumber for reading this stuff Nash's BBall IQ didn't go up when he went to PHX. He was the same heady player that he was in college. PER has absolutely nothing to do with BBall IQ. Any attempted inference relating the two is moronic. JR Smith has a low BBall IQ. His decision making is getting better, but he is still dumb on the court. Bogut has a very high BBall IQ.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you think BBallIQ=PER? Ridiculous.</div> My lord, he actually did attempt to quantify basketball IQ! With PER nonetheless! Denny: This whole thing didn't start about my players winning a championship or being too young. You said I had 3 young, stupid players on my team. That was never the case, and still isn't. Like I said, Bogut and LMA have above average bball IQ. Your claim was unfounded, and the basis that you stated for this whole argument was, and still is, whacky as hell. It seems others agree with me on that. As for the dumping on "everyone else's teams". I said that Outlaw and JR Smith had low bball IQ, which they do. I didn't crucify his team. I just stated that it was a stupid team and then Claud PMS'ed about getting criticism without even trying to have discourse on it. You are good at avoiding directed questions and changing the direction of the conversation, though. Nice job. </div> By what means are you measuring your players' IQs? The good ol' sphincter twitch test, of course. That makes what you say "fact." The numbers are, by definition, fact. I think I take your opinion for what it's worth, but prefer the facts. I do make certain assumptions, too. Like JR Smith shoots the lights out because he practices like a maniac. Or that his coach talks about not wanting to make room for him at SG by moving Iverson to PG.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm now dumber for reading this stuff Nash's BBall IQ didn't go up when he went to PHX. He was the same heady player that he was in college. PER has absolutely nothing to do with BBall IQ. Any attempted inference relating the two is moronic. JR Smith has a low BBall IQ. His decision making is getting better, but he is still dumb on the court. Bogut has a very high BBall IQ.</div> I appreciate your opinions. Do they have some standardized BBall IQ test that I missed seeing the scores from?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you think BBallIQ=PER? Ridiculous.</div> My lord, he actually did attempt to quantify basketball IQ! With PER nonetheless! Denny: This whole thing didn't start about my players winning a championship or being too young. You said I had 3 young, stupid players on my team. That was never the case, and still isn't. Like I said, Bogut and LMA have above average bball IQ. Your claim was unfounded, and the basis that you stated for this whole argument was, and still is, whacky as hell. It seems others agree with me on that. As for the dumping on "everyone else's teams". I said that Outlaw and JR Smith had low bball IQ, which they do. I didn't crucify his team. I just stated that it was a stupid team and then Claud PMS'ed about getting criticism without even trying to have discourse on it. You are good at avoiding directed questions and changing the direction of the conversation, though. Nice job. </div> By what means are you measuring your players' IQs? The good ol' sphincter twitch test, of course. That makes what you say "fact." The numbers are, by definition, fact. I think I take your opinion for what it's worth, but prefer the facts. I do make certain assumptions, too. Like JR Smith shoots the lights out because he practices like a maniac. Or that his coach talks about not wanting to make room for him at SG by moving Iverson to PG. </div> And the PER system is the right way. Right.....I go by what I see on the court. Which isnt 100% accurate but seeing with your own eyes is much more helpful when it comes to determining one's bballIQ. Not the PER. I never said I'm 100% right. I dont think I am(practically admitted after I said I was wrong about Walker). But when you start to argue that JR has a high Bball IQ, all I have to say is just give it up. He's talented, not smart on the court. And amazingly, you STILL haven't responded directly to the question about Paul, Williams, and Kidd. -I'm out. PER doesnt define bballIQ. i dont care for how long you been watching basketball. You are completely avoiding my questions and statements, and head out to different topics which hardly are relevant or even correct. We went from bballIQ, to Kidd/Williams/CP3 to thinking JR has a functioning brain for basketball, to thinking PER or any current number system determines one's bball IQ.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you think BBallIQ=PER? Ridiculous.</div> My lord, he actually did attempt to quantify basketball IQ! With PER nonetheless! Denny: This whole thing didn't start about my players winning a championship or being too young. You said I had 3 young, stupid players on my team. That was never the case, and still isn't. Like I said, Bogut and LMA have above average bball IQ. Your claim was unfounded, and the basis that you stated for this whole argument was, and still is, whacky as hell. It seems others agree with me on that. As for the dumping on "everyone else's teams". I said that Outlaw and JR Smith had low bball IQ, which they do. I didn't crucify his team. I just stated that it was a stupid team and then Claud PMS'ed about getting criticism without even trying to have discourse on it. You are good at avoiding directed questions and changing the direction of the conversation, though. Nice job. </div> By what means are you measuring your players' IQs? The good ol' sphincter twitch test, of course. That makes what you say "fact." The numbers are, by definition, fact. I think I take your opinion for what it's worth, but prefer the facts. I do make certain assumptions, too. Like JR Smith shoots the lights out because he practices like a maniac. Or that his coach talks about not wanting to make room for him at SG by moving Iverson to PG. </div> Watch the games. Watch the decision that players make. You can tell how smart a player is by watching them, not by sifting through NBA.com and basketball-reference.com stat pages. I watch basketball. I trust my instincts to see what I think of players. I suggest you try the same some time. It might open up your eyes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you think BBallIQ=PER? Ridiculous.</div> My lord, he actually did attempt to quantify basketball IQ! With PER nonetheless! Denny: This whole thing didn't start about my players winning a championship or being too young. You said I had 3 young, stupid players on my team. That was never the case, and still isn't. Like I said, Bogut and LMA have above average bball IQ. Your claim was unfounded, and the basis that you stated for this whole argument was, and still is, whacky as hell. It seems others agree with me on that. As for the dumping on "everyone else's teams". I said that Outlaw and JR Smith had low bball IQ, which they do. I didn't crucify his team. I just stated that it was a stupid team and then Claud PMS'ed about getting criticism without even trying to have discourse on it. You are good at avoiding directed questions and changing the direction of the conversation, though. Nice job. </div> By what means are you measuring your players' IQs? The good ol' sphincter twitch test, of course. That makes what you say "fact." The numbers are, by definition, fact. I think I take your opinion for what it's worth, but prefer the facts. I do make certain assumptions, too. Like JR Smith shoots the lights out because he practices like a maniac. Or that his coach talks about not wanting to make room for him at SG by moving Iverson to PG. </div> Watch the games. Watch the decision that players make. You can tell how smart a player is by watching them, not by sifting through NBA.com and basketball-reference.com stat pages. I watch basketball. I trust my instincts to see what I think of players. I suggest you try the same some time. It might open up your eyes. </div> It just so happens that the stat pages confirm what I see with my eyes. But hey, Cpawfan says Camby isn't a good man defender, and guess what? The 82games.com stats say exactly that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you think BBallIQ=PER? Ridiculous.</div> My lord, he actually did attempt to quantify basketball IQ! With PER nonetheless! Denny: This whole thing didn't start about my players winning a championship or being too young. You said I had 3 young, stupid players on my team. That was never the case, and still isn't. Like I said, Bogut and LMA have above average bball IQ. Your claim was unfounded, and the basis that you stated for this whole argument was, and still is, whacky as hell. It seems others agree with me on that. As for the dumping on "everyone else's teams". I said that Outlaw and JR Smith had low bball IQ, which they do. I didn't crucify his team. I just stated that it was a stupid team and then Claud PMS'ed about getting criticism without even trying to have discourse on it. You are good at avoiding directed questions and changing the direction of the conversation, though. Nice job. </div> By what means are you measuring your players' IQs? The good ol' sphincter twitch test, of course. That makes what you say "fact." The numbers are, by definition, fact. I think I take your opinion for what it's worth, but prefer the facts. I do make certain assumptions, too. Like JR Smith shoots the lights out because he practices like a maniac. Or that his coach talks about not wanting to make room for him at SG by moving Iverson to PG. </div> Watch the games. Watch the decision that players make. You can tell how smart a player is by watching them, not by sifting through NBA.com and basketball-reference.com stat pages. I watch basketball. I trust my instincts to see what I think of players. I suggest you try the same some time. It might open up your eyes. </div> It just so happens that the stat pages confirm what I see with my eyes. But hey, Cpawfan says Camby isn't a good man defender, and guess what? The 82games.com stats say exactly that. </div> Point me to the stat page for boneheaded plays, good/bad decisions made on the court, and awareness please!
