-24 LBS Lardless Shaq

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets' started by drm2dnk, Sep 9, 2004.

  1. durvasa

    durvasa JBB Rockets Fan

    Feb 28, 2004
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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Well...going by that, how can Kevin Garnett be considered the MVP last season, when Sam Cassell was #2 on the Roland Ratings? </div>

    Well, Garnett is ranked at number #1.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Those are BS...while Kobe is off the court, Shaq may have the other three starters still playing alongside him and the team does fairly well that way. On the other hand, what about the times that Shaq, Payton and Malone were all benched, and Kobe was on the court with Medvedenko (worst excuse for a center ever), Cook, Walton and Fisher? The Lakers would be getting destroyed.</div>

    That's taking ONE example. But, if you actually check the numbers, you'll find that overall the other players perform BETTER when only Shaq is on the court compared to when only Kobe is on the court. Read here for details.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The reason why Kobe's "Roland Rating" would be so low is because when Shaq was out, the Lakers had NO OTHER CENTER to put in the game, and they had problems. However, when Kobe was out...Rush was a decent SG and the Lakers did an OK job. </div>

    I agree. Which means that Shaq is, overall, more valuable because the role he plays on the team is more unique. If you had a team with Olajuwon, Jordan, and Drexler coming off the bench, Olajuwon would be more valuable for that team because you can least afford to lose Jordan for a while. Again, that doesn't mean Shaq (or Olajuwon) is a better player, just that he's more of a difference maker than Kobe given the makeup of the team.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's like saying that McGrady is nothing compared to Steve Francis, which is untrue. Just because Francis plays with Ming and Mobley doesn't mean he's better than McGrady, who plays with nobody.</div>

    Well, if you check the Rankings, they'd agree with you on that. McGrady is listed at 47. Francis is off the chart. Again, the ranking don't claim to prove who's the better player. Only who's the best difference maker when on the court. So, for instance, with a role player who plays limited minutes, you can't take the rankings as seriously as a starter who plays 40 minutes a game.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe has no center when Shaq is out. If the Lakers had invested in another decent center during the years they had Shaq and Kobe, it would be different...but they never did.</div>

    Which makes Shaq a more valued commodity, and the numbers bare that out.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">EDIT: Haha...Roland Ratings are trash. They "claim" that Jermaine O'Neal isn't worth as much as Tinsley, Foster and Miller? [​IMG]</div>

    The claim is that Tinsley, Foster, and Miller were bigger "difference makers" while on the court than O'neal last season. When O'neal sat on the bench, there wasn't as much of a drop-off as when those players sat on the bench. But you also need to consider the roles they play on their team, and their minutes. O'neal contributes more offensively and defensively than those three, so he's more directly responsible for the positive Roland Ratings he gets than them.

    Shaq and Kobe's contributions and minutes are more comparable, so the disparity in their Roland Ratings is more meaningful.
  2. jbbReal Deal

    jbbReal Deal Active Member

    Jun 22, 2004
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    The point is, in the Lakers' case, if Shaq was not on the team, they'd have a couple of centers to replace him and Kobe would be better off than what he was in previous years, when the Lakers had Shaq sitting on the bench. Look at it this year...Divac and Mihm, with Grant and Medvedenko possible options at center.

    I'm not going to argue this point, because some guys give Shaq way too much credit. We'll see how well he does, since the Heat are automatically set to win a championship with him...kinda like the Lakers were these last two years, right? Haha. I'd take the Rockets anyday over Shaq and his new friends in Miami.

    The thread went off-topic again, and I'm sorry...I've hit all subjects, even about Shaq's weight and about Yao...to Kobe and the Lakers...so I'm finished with the discussion.
  3. Trip

    Trip 2000000000000000000000000

    Dec 14, 2003
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    London/Mississauga, ON
    Well, I don't see much point in allowing this to go on either. It has never been totally been on point and it will just carry on and on even if Realdealbeneal backs out.

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