Politics 3rd party candidates

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by barfo, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RIPcity

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    14,404
    Likes Received:
    9,272
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    PDX
    While I agree. I've been told this line of thinking is useless because nothing will ever change and we have to accept it or be labeled juvenile.
     
    lawai'a likes this.
  2. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    94,341
    Likes Received:
    81,392
    Trophy Points:
    115
    I WANT TO BE LABELED JUVENILE!
     
    riverman and HailBlazers like this.
  3. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    haters gonna hate. by the pew research groups findings neither party has even close to a majority, and represent barely a quarter of the registered voters. this is one of the reasons i advocated for the importance of the local elections in this cycle. voting
     
    HailBlazers likes this.
  4. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    done, YOU ARE A PUP!
     
    e_blazer and SlyPokerDog like this.
  5. ehizzy3

    ehizzy3 RIP mgb

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    7,569
    Likes Received:
    2,527
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Hillsboro/Bogotá
    you a fine muthafucking dog when you back dat ass up
     
  6. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://www.fairvote.org/where_is_ranked_choice_voting_used

    Using RCV now:


    Basalt, Colorado: Adopted in 2002 for mayoral races with three or more candidates and was first used in April 2020.
    • Berkeley, California: Adopted in 2004 and has been used since 2010 to elect the mayor, city council and city auditor.
    • Cambridge, Massachusetts: In use since the 1940s in multi-winner form. Used for the nine-seat city council and the six-seat school board, both elected citywide.
    • Carbondale, Colorado: Adopted in 2002 for mayoral races with three or more candidates.
    • Eastpointe, Michigan: Adopted to resolve a federal Voting Rights Act lawsuit and used for two city council seats (at-large, proportional) in November 2019.
    • Las Cruces, New Mexico: Adopted by the city council in 2018 and used since 2019 for all municipal elections.
    • Maine: Adopted in 2016 and first used in 2018 for all state and federal primary elections, and all general elections for Congress. Extended to apply to the general election for president beginning in 2020 and presidential primary elections beginning in 2024.
    • Minneapolis, Minnesota: Adopted in 2006 and used since 2009, in elections for 22 city offices, including mayor and city council in single-winner elections, and some multi-winner park board seats.
    • Oakland, California: Adopted in 2006 and used since 2010 for a total of 18 city offices, including mayor and city council.
    • Payson, Utah: A local options bill was passed in 2018, and the city opted-in for city council seats in November 2019 (at-large, winner take-all).
    • Portland, Maine: Adopted in 2010 and used since 2011 for electing mayor.
    • San Francisco, California: Adopted in 2002 and used since 2004 to elect the mayor, city attorney, Board of Supervisors and five additional citywide offices.
    • San Leandro, California: Adopted as option in 2000 charter amendment and used since 2010 to elect the mayor and city council.
    • Santa Fe, New Mexico: Adopted in 2008 and used since March 2018 for mayor, city council, and municipal judge.
    • St. Louis Park, Minnesota: Adopted in 2018 and used since 2019 for mayor and city council races.
    • St. Paul, Minnesota: Adopted in 2009 and used since 2011 to elect the mayor and city council.
    • Takoma Park, Maryland: Adopted in 2006 and used since 2007 in all elections for mayor and city council.
    • Telluride, Colorado: Adopted in 2008 for mayoral elections with at least three candidates. Used in 2011, 2015 and 2019.
    • Vineyard, Utah: A local options bill was passed in 2018, and the city opted-in for city council seats in November 2019 (at-large, winner take-all).
    Upcoming implementations:
    • Amherst, Massachusetts: Adopted charter in 2018 with ranked choice voting and passing implementation statute before projected first use in 2021.
    • Benton County, Oregon: Adopted by voters in 2016 for general elections for county offices of sheriff and commissioner. It will be used in November 2020.
    • Easthampton, MA: Adopted in 2019 and to be used in mayoral and all single-seat city council elections starting in 2021
    • New York City: Adopted in 2019 and to be used in all city primary and special elections starting in 2021.
    • Palm Desert, California: Adopted January 2020 to be used for city council elections in November 2022 as part of a California Voting Rights Act settlement. One district elected in single winner elections, with the rest of the city electing in staggered two-winner multi winner elections (proportional).
    Presidential Nominations (major party primaries and caucuses*):

    • Alaska: All voters in Democratic primary in April 2020
    • Nevada: Early voters in Democratic caucuses in Feb. 2020
    • Hawaii: All voters in Democratic primary in April 2020
    • Kansas: All voters in Democratic primary in May 2020
    • Wyoming: All voters in Democratic primary in April 2020
    * Parties conducted an RCV tally until all candidates exceeded 15% of the vote, after which delegates were allocated proportionally. Party decisions about 2024 will be made closer to that date.
     
    RickyJoe and GoBlazersGo like this.
  7. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    18,426
    Likes Received:
    20,307
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    There’s an entire book on that:

    [​IMG]
     
    Chris Craig, SlyPokerDog and lawai'a like this.
  8. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://www.fairvote.org/rcv_2020_ballot_measures
    Ranked Choice Voting 2020 Ballot Measures

    The following two states and five cities have ballot measures to enact ranked choice voting (RCV) on the ballot in November 2020. Earlier in the year, Maine's largest city of Portland approved a ballot measure with 81% of the vote to amend its charter to extend use of RCV for all city elections. Collectively, these eight ballot measures represent the most jurisdictions voting on RCV in one year in American history.

    Alaska
    Alaskans for Better Elections collected enough signatures to put Ballot Measure 2 to a vote this November. If passed, this ballot measure would implement several statutory changes, including: 1) "Top four" blanket primaries for state and congressional offices, where all candidates would appear on the same primary ballot and the top-four vote getters would advance to the general election, regardless of party affiliation; 2) Ranked choice voting in the choice among four candidates on the November ballot, with write-in candidates permitted; 3) Ranked choice voting in the presidential election among all candidates who have qualified for the ballot and any write-in candidates.

    If you live in Alaska, vote YES on Ballot Measure 2.

    Read a quick take post from our blog.

    Albany, California
    The city council of Albany, California voted unanimously on June 15 in favor of charter amendment for voters to approve the adoption of the proportional form of ranked choice voting for elections to the city council and school board, which are elected citywide in staggered elections. The ranked choice voting Ballot Measure BB will be decided in November 2020. Albany would be the fifth city in California with ranked choice voting and the fourth city in the country using its proportional, "single transferable vote" form. Voter Choice Albany heads the campaign, and backers include the local East Bay Times in this thoughtful editorial.

    If you live in Albany, vote YES on Ballot Measure BB.

    Read a quick take from our blog.

    Bloomington, Minnesota
    The city council of Bloomington, Minnesota voted 6-1 in favor of a charter amendment to go on the November ballot adopting ranked choice voting in elections for mayor and council. If voters approve City Question 3, Bloomington would join three Minnesota cities that already use RCV. For more on the campaign, visit Ranked Choice Voting Bloomington.

    https://www.fairvote.org/rcv_2020_ballot_measures

    If you live in Bloomington, vote YES on City Question 3.

    Read a quick take post from our blog.

    Boulder, Colorado
    In August, the Boulder, Colorado city council approved 7-2 to place a charter amendment on the ballot to allow voters to elect their mayor directly with ranked choice voting; currently, the city council selects the mayor. On September 1, the council held a final vote that put Ballot Measure 2E before voters. The campaign in support of the measure is led by Our Mayor, Our Choice. Endorsers include the Boulder Daily Camera in this editorial.

    If you live in Boulder, vote YES on Ballot Measure 2E.

    Read a quick take post from our blog.

    Eureka, California
    The city council of Eureka, California voted unanimously (5-0) to place a charter amendment on the November ballot to adopt ranked choice voting for electing the mayor and city council. Measure C would replace the current plurality voting system and make Eureka the 5th city in California with ranked choice voting. Yes on C! Ranked Choice Voting for Eureka has a website and Facebook page.

    If you live in Eureka, vote YES on Measure C.

    Read a quick take post from our blog.

    Massachusetts
    After a multi-year educational campaign led by Voter Choice Massachusetts, an initiative will appear on the ballot as Question 2 that, if passed, would enact a statute to implement ranked choice voting for Massachusetts’ U.S. Senate and U.S House general and primary elections, state primary and general elections, and county offices, beginning in 2022. The initiative is supported by Yes on 2 for Ranked Choice Voting. Supporters include the Boston Globe in this editorial.

    If you live in Massachusetts, vote YES on Question 2.

    Read a quick take post from our blog.

    Minnetonka, Minnesota
    The city council of Minnetonka, Minnesota voted unanimously to place a charter amendment on the November ballot to fold the city's nonpartisan primary elections into a single general election held with ranked choice voting for mayor and city council. If the city ballot question is passed, Minnetonka would join three Minnesota cities that already use RCV. The campaign to pass City Question is led by Ranked Choice Voting Minnetonka.

    If you live in Minnetonka, vote YES on City Question.

    Read a quick take post from our blog.


    Additional notes:


    (1) North Dakota Voter’s First, a grassroots coalition, submitted 36,000 signatures for a ballot initiative that would have enacted several changes, including a "Top Four Primary" with ranked choice voting. It was approved by the Secretary of State, but the North Dakota Supreme Court on August 25th removed it from the ballot because it ruled that petitions should have included the full text of the ballot measure.

    (2) Open Primaries Arkansas, a grassroots coalition that gathered sufficient signatures to earn a place on the November ballot, also was deeply disappointed to have its "Top Four Primary" with ranked choice voting struck from the ballot by the Arkansas Supreme Court on procedural grounds involving signature collection.

    (3) Several additional cities seriously considered placing ranked choice voting on the ballot and are likely to take action in 2021-22. Other cities are expected to establish RCV for their 2021 elections by an act of the city council.
     
    GoBlazersGo likes this.
  9. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Know where you are going or end up somewhere else!

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    7,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    George Washington’s farewell address is often remembered for its warning against hyper-partisanship: “The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism.” John Adams, Washington’s successor, similarly worried that “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.

    America has now become that dreaded divided republic. The existential menace is as foretold, and it is breaking the system of government the Founders put in place with the Constitution.

    Though America’s two-party system goes back centuries, the threat today is new and different because the two parties are now truly distinct, a development that I date to the 2010 midterms. Until then, the two parties contained enough overlapping multitudes within them that the sort of bargaining and coalition-building natural to multiparty democracy could work inside the two-party system. No more. America now has just two parties, and that’s it.

    The theory that guided Washington and Adams was simple, and widespread at the time. If a consistent partisan majority ever united to take control of the government, it would use its power to oppress the minority. The fragile consent of the governed would break down, and violence and authoritarianism would follow. This was how previous republics had fallen into civil wars, and the Framers were intent on learning from history, not repeating its mistakes.

    There needs to be more than two prominent parties but until major media, wall street billionaires and both prominent parties, open it for fairness it will always be controlled by power propaganda and money.
     
    lawai'a likes this.
  10. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    29,129
    Likes Received:
    16,681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Wouldn't that be the case even if we somehow got rid of parties altogether, and every candidate was truly independent? You'd still have to pick the candidate which you agreed with most - you likely wouldn't get someone you agreed with 100%.

    Because organizing has benefits. Teamwork gets the job done easier than everyone working by themselves.
    Also the 42% overstates the number of independents. There are a lot of people who claim to be independent because they think it makes them look more thoughtful or because their social circle/community skews opposite from them, but vote straight-ticket D or R every election.

    As long as you have single-issue voters/donors, you can't avoid this. Short of requiring a civics exam as a requirement for participation in the political process, I don't know that it can be fixed.

    That would be great! Not holding my breath though.

    I'm ok with that one, although it would reduce the rep's connection to a particular district.
    I'm in favor of that.
    Better yet, why have registration at all? Why not just let every citizen over 18 vote?
    • Good idea, but hard to deliver on. Who decides what is impartial information and what isn't?
    I could be wrong, but I don't think that's mostly a barrier. If you've seen a ballot with 30 candidates for the same office, then you've seen why there should be some minimal hoops to jump through to get on the ballot.

    barfo
     
  11. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candidates

    for the office of president the required signatures are vastly different, for example,
    california requires a major party candidate to only get 26,500 signatures for the democratic primary
    47,938 for republicans and the winner of the primary is applied to the california general election ballot.
    but 196,964 for an independent to get on the general election ballot.
    even oregon if a party candidate is not automatically submitted the requirement is 5,000, the standard for the independent is 17,893.
    it is similarly weighted in nearly all of the states in precluding independet ballot access.
    in oklahoma the filing fee for either major party is $5,000 the independent needs to cough up $35,000


     
  12. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    29,129
    Likes Received:
    16,681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    That does sound unfair. But I'd argue that it isn't something that would keep a serious presidential candidate off the ballot.

    barfo
     
  13. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    but you left out ranked choice voting where ballot access is the most important criteria to equal access to the entirety of the potential electorate
     
  14. stampedehero

    stampedehero Mr. Natural lives in Oregon.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    8,716
    Likes Received:
    6,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Part Time Building Inspector
    Location:
    NJ
    Lets explore a different route: Blackmailing The CEO of Costco. Pirates understand.
     
    lawai'a likes this.
  15. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    link? i don't question many will do as you predict but truly how significant is that number especially with the influx of younger voters not tied to the old folks major party commitment.
     
    Hoopguru likes this.
  16. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ranked choice voting again.
    remember when the social justice/union catholic voting block was one of the most significant demographics of the democratic party? pro choice/abortion is a litimus test now alienating those potential candidates and voters. Why insist on this issue being a pillar of the party? what happened to legal yet rare? i personally don't want to force pro life on other voters, but catholic candidates for social justice and pro union are out the door in this version of the party. roe vs wade is established law. the last 8 legal challenges in defense of religious freedoms have overwhelmingly won, the last by an 8-1 margin. significantly neither kavanaugh nor gorsuch joined judge thomas in opinion challenging the underpinnings of roe vs. wade. again a false dichotomy through fear mongering.
    more candidates outside the litmus test, not the abortion test but all litmus tests that major party candidate must espouse, will offer opportunity for more candidates that more closely conform to individual voters. think how many republicans feel about the trumpian loyalty test.

    ps. i am voting joe, the catholic candidate but this has cost the party significat votes. in pennsylvania it was the rural catholic working man/woman vote that was the difference in 2016 in wisconsin and michigan too. they used to be reliable democrats.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  17. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Know where you are going or end up somewhere else!

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    7,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think many are independents so they don't feel like they have to vote a straight ticket as they may have not line up completely with one party or the other.
     
    lawai'a likes this.
  18. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    because neither straight ticket is fully representative of their own positions on the issues.
     
    Hoopguru likes this.
  19. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Know where you are going or end up somewhere else!

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    7,586
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thats why Im an independent. Ive voted Dem, Repub & libertarian for President in the past.
     
    lawai'a likes this.
  20. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    53,404
    Likes Received:
    45,366
    Trophy Points:
    113
    you want it stapled on the right ear or left ear?
     
    lawai'a likes this.

Share This Page