Politics #47traitors

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by donkiez, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm quite sure lots of congressmen and congresswomen and senators have gone overseas on "fact finding" trips and met with foreign leaders outside of the president's plans.
     
  2. Further

    Further Guy

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    We shouldn't be conflating these two actions, writing letters and visiting dignitaries. They can both be morons for different reasons.
     
  3. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

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    True but thats no reason to dismiss the behavior. Pelosi's trip was bipartisan at least and almost 10 years ago. These senators are so eager to partisan pile on Obama and one up the repubs in congress who invited Netanyahu, that they didnt event stop to consider how stupid they were being. Also the end goal of these types of actions are to kill negotiations and potentially put us in war. Where Pelosi wasn't threatening other leaders and insinuation that Bush has no real power as a president.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Inviting Netanyahu was fine.

    The end goal of these types of actions are to have article 2 rights to approve a treaty of this sort (with a terrorist nation).

    What did Obama promise leaders overseas when he traveled there during the 2008 campaign?

    http://www.journalism.org/2008/07/21/pej-campaign-coverage-index-july-14-20-2008/

    War Takes Center Stage as Obama Moves Overseas
    PEJ Campaign Coverage Index July 14 - 20, 2008

    As the week ended, however, two events unfolded that seemed to break Obama’s way and dampen the perception that the trip would backfire. First, President Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki agreed on a “time horizon” for the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq as part of a “long-term security accord.” Then, on Saturday, Maliki told a German magazine that he supported Obama’s 16-month redeployment proposal. “That, we think, would be the right timeframe for withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes,” Maliki said, referring to Obama by name.
     
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/17/blair.transcript/

    Transcript of Blair's speech to Congress

    Thursday, July 17, 2003 Posted: 9:44 PM EDT (0144 GMT)

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair addressed a joint meeting of the U.S. Congress on Thursday, July 17, 2003. Here is a transcript of his speech.
     
  6. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    What did the Senators do wrong? Tell the facts? I can not understand why Obama/Kerry are negotiating with Iran. What has changed since they failed to adhere to the standard of conduct as a Nation?
    What have they ever done to redeem themselves as a nation after taking our people in the Tehran embassy hostage?
    That was about as untrustworthy as you can get, so what agreement can you trust now? The Senate will not agree to what ever it is because it is worthless what ever it is.

    They must not be permitted to get Nuclear weapon period. Only a fool would trust them and it seem we have some, but fortunately, not enough in the Senate.
     
  7. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The fact is that regardless of how we may feel about Iran or whether or not there should be any agreement made with them, it is the executive branch's decision to make whether or not to engage in negotiations therewith. The letter from the Senate 47 intentionally undermines any diplomatic efforts the president may seek to undertake.

    We can disagree with the president, we can comment on the president, we can write to the president, and if we have the opportunity we can even yell at the president, but we don't have the right to interfere with the president's ability to do his job.
     
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  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    That's silly.

    People do all kinds of things to influence policy.
     
  9. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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    your mentioning trustworthy is pretty laughable when it was our cia and british intelligence agencies that planned and backed the coup to replace their DEMOCRATICLLY elected prime minister and parliament in 1953, to be replaced by a dictator backed by a brutal secret police on par with gestapo Germany in their torture and terror tactics trained by our very own cia. the middle east had democratic governments following the end of WWII but we didn't like their politics so we replaced them with our own dictators(see also Pakistan).the Tehran embassy take over by student protesters was directly a result of our own actions and complicity. the authoritarian theocracy that is now there filled the void left by the shah fleeing and the students not really having a solid plan for the aftermath... do I trust them completely? no but I certainly can see why they are a wee bit skeptical of our motives. I also think that to try to offer the perception of our government having the moral authority and high ground to dictate to the Iranians is laughable too.
     
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  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Well said.
     
  11. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Well laugh you butt off. However, it has nothing to do with moral high ground. There is no basis for trust so no agreement could possibly be worth anything. It certainly will not be a treaty, the Senate has said as much.

    However, I do find you can believe in what they say:

    "This regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

    "If one permits an infidel to continue in his role as a corrupter of the earth, his moral suffering will be all the worse. If one kills the infidel, and this stops him from perpetrating his misdeeds, his death will be a blessing to him."

    I know for a fact that I am deemed an infidel in Iran. How about yourself?

    High ground? Geez! I don't even give one fig about it, no nucs for Iran, no trust.
     
  12. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Checks and balances suck. Dictatorial governments are awesome!
     
  13. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    When your ship is on fire, you can stay and burn or jump into the water. Going into the water doesn't guarantee survival - but it at least gives you a chance.

    No one despises Islamic governments more than I do.....but I prefer the chance of peace to the certainty of war. Trust doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. This is about some folks not understanding the difference between negotiation and ultimatum.
     
  14. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Sometimes there is no other choice. They've already declared war on us.
     
  15. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    I seem to recall people saying the same thing about the Soviets. Every treaty we ever signed with them was derided in some circles as being (at best) a temporary solution. Well, all those temporary solutions added up to no nuclear war.

    Of course, if there was still a Suni government in Iraq we would have a counter-balance to Iran.....but that is spilt milk.
     
  16. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

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  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    donkiez likes this.
  18. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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  19. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    I see Sly liked this drivel. I wonder what he liked about it?
     
  20. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

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    This general argues that the senators actions are not treasonous, but they are mutinous. Sounds like a better description to me.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rt-by-army-general-over-mutinous-iran-letter/

     

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