<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheAnswer2:</div><div class="quote_post"> Disagree, Nugs have a SF that can bang, slash and now defend, a C who is damn near Wallace as far as defense, a PF that, I believe, would dominate Swift, a pass first PG, and sparks off the bench. However, I very much like Hou, I think they have a problem concerning PG, and they messed up trading James, seeing as how he was a good defensive player with energy. </div>Carmelo Anthony can bang and defend? Anthony has no post game and depends on his driving and mid range skills. He was nothing on defense for the past two seasons and I'm not going to start thinking that he will play some defense until I see it. Kenyon Martin is way overrated in my opinion. He is a dunker, pure and simple, and although he has an impressive penetration game, he proved last season with his stats that he should not be in the same class as the elite players in the NBA. Camby is a great talent, yes, and his rebounding/defense will cause some problems for the Rockets, but I think that the Rockets' center rotation has the overall advantage. Andre Miller being a pass-first PG has nothing to do with how good the team is. The Bobcats had a pass-first PG in Brevin Knight as well, and they didn't get anywhere. Earl Boykins and Nene are good sparks off the bench, but the Rockets have the bench prowess to match or overtake them. Mutombo, Sura, Howard, Wesley and Barry coming off the bench is very enticing. I am concerned with the Rockets' lack of defense at point guard, but knowing Van Gundy, someone is bound to improve their defense by midseason. Besides, if Alston/Sura really can't handle it, we have Wesley and Head off the bench who can D up on the league's best guards. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheMegaGreg:</div><div class="quote_post"> Secondly, Yao wont be effective on offense either. Yes he has height, but at 296 pounds, and 7"7, he wont be able to move Grant (6"9 254 pounds), Kurt Thomas (230 pounds) or the Beast that is Amare very easily. Given he scored 14, 27, 19, and 10 points for an amazing average of 17.5 points per game. Not bad for an "amazing Talent" playing against "No Inside Presence". This year he should score between 1-15 a game...when he is not too tired from running suicides against the suns.</div>First off, Yao is not 7-7, and not 296 pounds. He was last listed as 7-6, 310, and he has gained a lot more muscle this summer. Saying that Yao cannot move Grant or Thomas is downright ignorant. Yao has owned Grant since his rookie year and Yao has averaged 23/12 against the Knicks last season. Grant and Thomas can do nothing to prevent Yao from getting 20/10. The Suns didn't really run all energy out of Yao either. This year, Phoenix will be going slower, and Yao has more energy. Do the math and figure out how Yao will do. Definitely not the 1-15 you're predicting. You can hate on Yao all you want but you're giving me a great laugh if your arguments are so weak.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Secondly, you say teams will have "NO FEAR" driving against Phoenix. Well a combination of Kurt Thomas and Amare is bigger than what they used to use (Amare and Marion). Also Kurt Thomas is a better post defender than Marion, so Phoenix has only improved defensively down low.</div> Don't you get it, the Suns can't win by going small. It's very simple. Not only are they small, but they're bigman are vertically challenged (except Amare). We all know about Amare's defense, it's not very good. I think Kurt Thomas has had some good defensive games, but people are exaggerating his post D. He's not in the East anymore. He's going to have a tough match up every night he steps on the court. Amare will go off, but don't forget, Yao has had some impressive performances against Amare too. Bottom line, the Rockets, Spurs, and Heat are the top teams in the NBA. Look for the Clippers, Golden State, Denver, and maybe the Lakers to fight for the bottom half of top 8. The Suns are somewhere in the middle.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Don't you get it, the Suns can't win by going small. It's very simple. Not only are they small, but they're bigman are vertically challenged (except Amare). We all know about Amare's defense, it's not very good. I think Kurt Thomas has had some good defensive games, but people are exaggerating his post D. He's not in the East anymore. He's going to have a tough match up every night he steps on the court. Amare will go off, but don't forget, Yao has had some impressive performances against Amare too.</div> Why can't you win by going small? They've got speed on their side. Besides, height doesn't mean everything. Last season they went all the way to the Western Finals with Amare playing center and a 6-7 Marion playing powerforward. I think they showed the league you can have success playing small ball. You talk about Amare's defense. Well, his job out there isn't to shutdown his man, its to outscore him by as much points as he can. Still, for a "not very good defender" he's averaging decent numbers for a center (8.9 rebounds and 1.63 blocks). I'll let you have the Thomas one, but its not like the East doesn't have any good big men. Ben Wallace, Jermaine O'Neil, Shaq, and Zydrunas Illgauskas are all in the East just to name a few.
To Locke, first I want to agree that Denver isn't better than Houston. Denver really lacks a complete game. The only player that can create his own shot for Denver is Earl Boykins. Their 3 point shooting is rather terrible, and Melo, K-Mart, Nene, and Camby all get their points down low, if 3 of those players are on the court then the key will get too cluttered to score. Unless Denver gets a decent shooting guard, Melo gains the ability to create his own shot, and Miller becomes a better 3 point shooter. I don't see them being better than Houston. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Saying that Yao cannot move Grant or Thomas is downright ignorant. Yao has owned Grant since his rookie year and Yao has averaged 23/12 against the Knicks last season. Grant and Thomas can do nothing to prevent Yao from getting 20/10. The Suns didn't really run all energy out of Yao either. This year, Phoenix will be going slower, and Yao has more energy. Do the math and figure out how Yao will do. Definitely not the 1-15 you're predicting. You can hate on Yao all you want but you're giving me a great laugh if your arguments are so weak.</div> Yao will get his share of points against Grant, Thomas, or Amare. Yao averaged 17.5 ppg against Amare last year, and Amare averaged 22.5 against him, so its not too big a difference. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Don't you get it, the Suns can't win by going small. It's very simple. Not only are they small, but they're bigman are vertically challenged (except Amare). We all know about Amare's defense, it's not very good. I think Kurt Thomas has had some good defensive games, but people are exaggerating his post D. He's not in the East anymore. He's going to have a tough match up every night he steps on the court. Amare will go off, but don't forget, Yao has had some impressive performances against Amare too. Bottom line, the Rockets, Spurs, and Heat are the top teams in the NBA. Look for the Clippers, Golden State, Denver, and maybe the Lakers to fight for the bottom half of top 8. The Suns are somewhere in the middle.</div> The Suns made it to the WCFs going small and lost to the eventual champions. They also won 62 regular season games which means they must have won some games going small? Anyway, they are more versatile now that Amare can play either C or PF. I think San Antonio, Miami, and Detroit are the real contenders with Indiana, Suns, and Rockets close behind. Kings and Mavs try to surprize some people though.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">The Suns made it to the WCFs going small and lost to the eventual champions. They also won 62 regular season games which means they must have won some games going small? Anyway, they are more versatile now that Amare can play either C or PF.</div> They also won because of they're perimiter play too. Joe Johnson was vital in they're run last season. They're defense always sucked, and I don't think they really fixed the problem. If your lacking a center, atleast get a legit one. Don't get two PF's, who are both old and undersized (that's not fixing anything). Amare has stated, and it was VERY evident that he can't guard Centers in the WCF. The man has said this millions of times. So I don't expect too much interchanging.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">They also won because of they're perimiter play too. Joe Johnson was vital in they're run last season. They're defense always sucked, and I don't think they really fixed the problem. If your lacking a center, atleast get a legit one. Don't get two PF's, who are both old and undersized (that's not fixing anything). Amare has stated, and it was VERY evident that he can't guard Centers in the WCF. The man has said this millions of times. So I don't expect too much interchanging.</div> Amare held Yao to 17.5 ppg, which means that he can defend decently enough. Not great, but not bad. Brian Grant has played Center for a long time in his career, and Kurt Thomas has been a PF-C. They both are capable of defending centers, they may not be top tier defenders, but they are capable of it. Last year Phoenix only had Amare who could defend centers, now at least they have 3 players who can do so. Their perimeter defense is good besides Nash, because they have Marion at SF, and Raja Bell at SG. They are both excellent perimeter defenders. Amare will also have an easier task of defending PFs. So their defense most likely will improve.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Carmelo Anthony can bang and defend? Anthony has no post game and depends on his driving and mid range skills. He was nothing on defense for the past two seasons and I'm not going to start thinking that he will play some defense until I see it. Kenyon Martin is way overrated in my opinion. He is a dunker, pure and simple, and although he has an impressive penetration game, he proved last season with his stats that he should not be in the same class as the elite players in the NBA. Camby is a great talent, yes, and his rebounding/defense will cause some problems for the Rockets, but I think that the Rockets' center rotation has the overall advantage. Andre Miller being a pass-first PG has nothing to do with how good the team is. The Bobcats had a pass-first PG in Brevin Knight as well, and they didn't get anywhere. Earl Boykins and Nene are good sparks off the bench, but the Rockets have the bench prowess to match or overtake them. Mutombo, Sura, Howard, Wesley and Barry coming off the bench is very enticing. I am concerned with the Rockets' lack of defense at point guard, but knowing Van Gundy, someone is bound to improve their defense by midseason. Besides, if Alston/Sura really can't handle it, we have Wesley and Head off the bench who can D up on the league's best guards. First off, Yao is not 7-7, and not 296 pounds. He was last listed as 7-6, 310, and he has gained a lot more muscle this summer. Saying that Yao cannot move Grant or Thomas is downright ignorant. Yao has owned Grant since his rookie year and Yao has averaged 23/12 against the Knicks last season. Grant and Thomas can do nothing to prevent Yao from getting 20/10. The Suns didn't really run all energy out of Yao either. This year, Phoenix will be going slower, and Yao has more energy. Do the math and figure out how Yao will do. Definitely not the 1-15 you're predicting. You can hate on Yao all you want but you're giving me a great laugh if your arguments are so weak.</div> No, Melo is starting to post up smaller defenders now, that's what I meant by bang. He doesn't grab that many boards either. And you just might get the treat to see Melo defend now, shiiet, Karl told Melo straight up..defend or sit. Plus he lost like 10 or so pounds over the summer, expect to see an improvement in his game. What they were talking about with Yao being boxed out by Grant/Thomas is that they are shorter, and have lower centers of gravity. So, they can box out Yao with their butts on his quads and prevent him from getting the rebound with space or the over-the-back call. And don't tell me it won't happen, because I do it all the damn time with taller players. And since when is Wesley a defensive prodigy? The leagues best guards?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Amare held Yao to 17.5 ppg, which means that he can defend decently enough. Not great, but not bad..</div> Yao also had a 20pt 20reb game against Amare too. Also, Amare couldn't even put a body on Duncan in the playoffs. But I ain't the only one who knows about his lack of defense, just listen to the experts. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Brian Grant has played Center for a long time in his career, and Kurt Thomas has been a PF-C. They both are capable of defending centers, they may not be top tier defenders, but they are capable of it. Last year Phoenix only had Amare who could defend centers, now at least they have 3 players who can do so..</div> That's what your not seeing Skip........THEY CAN'T DEFEND CENTERS. Kurt Thomas's defense is good AT TIMES, but theres no way he can keep up with the bigman of the west. Brian Grant is over. His hayday with Portland is long gone. Bigger centers will get the best of Phoenix every night. Between Thomas, Grant, and Stoudamire, none of them are big enought to guard a legit 7footer. Keep in mind, they have no shotblocker on the team either.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheAnswer2:</div><div class="quote_post"> What they were talking about with Yao being boxed out by Grant/Thomas is that they are shorter, and have lower centers of gravity. So, they can box out Yao with their butts on his quads and prevent him from getting the rebound with space or the over-the-back call. And don't tell me it won't happen, because I do it all the damn time with taller players. And since when is Wesley a defensive prodigy? The leagues best guards?</div>Yeah, shorter guys can get more rebounds than taller guys. You're making a lot of sense. Yao got 12 and 13 rebounds on Thomas last season. So much for center of gravity eh? And Wesley has been a premier defender for a few seasons now, and I saw first hand last season when he was with the Rockets. If you don't even know that, then why are you even debating? Know your facts before you spout some unreasonable garbage. I'm not going to get into the Suns argument again, but the Suns won 62 games last year playing small, and they will probably win at least 55 again doing that. Kurt Thomas will at least do a better job on centers than Amare, and Amare would do a better job on power forwards than Marion, and Marion should revert to his old status as one of the best perimeter defenders in the game. Also, last year, the Suns had Amare and Marion combine for 3.5 blocks per game. Thomas can add one more, so it's not like the Suns are so in need of shotblockers. Jim Jackson, Raja Bell and Nash all shoot over 40% from three, and James Jones is around there. Marion can also go for 37% in a good season, so the Suns didn't really lose any perimeter shooting with the departures of QRich and JJ.
Come on people Phoenix is not a better teamt this season.......yes they got two old undersized PF's (who won't help that much on the defensive end and won't help at all on offense), but they lost a lot of the fire power they had last year.......honestly one of the reasons why Nash had such a great season last year was because of the shooting and running capablilities of Johnson and Richardson, with those two gone, don't expect Nash to have the MVP season he had last year......And if I'm not mistaken didn't they lose Steven Hunter???? EDIT '05 - '06 Roster Starters C - Kurt Thomas PF - Amare Stoudemire SF - Shawn Marion SG - Raja Bell PG - Steve Nash Bench Jim Jackson Boris Diaw Leandro Barbosa James Jones Brian Grant Walter McCarty? Pat Burke Dijon Thompson I keep hearing all this talk about Phoenix's "depth", but where in the hell is it????....it's the same depth they had last year, possibly even worst since they lost Hunter.....and how did the starting 5 get better....are you guys seriously going to say you'd take Raja Bell and Kurt Thomas over Richardson and Joe Johnson????.......also what people forget is that Joe Johnson was one of the guys on Phoenix who actually played Defense.......Phoenix looks worst than what they were last year......yes they needed defense, but to mess up your entire roster to gain Brian Grant and Kurt Thomas is foolish imo.............bottom line is Phoenix + Hunter + Johnson + Richardson >>>>>> Phoenix + Grant + Thomas.
^^^^ Well said. The number B-List players they picked up can't make up for the fact they lost Q, JJ, and a young athletic Steven Hunter. Not saying that those 3 are superstars, but the chemistry between them, Nash and Amare was spectacular. Now, the Suns have sunk to 5th or 6th ranked team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post"> I keep hearing all this talk about Phoenix's "depth", but where in the hell is it????....it's the same depth they had last year, possibly even worst since they lost Hunter.....and how did the starting 5 get better....are you guys seriously going to say you'd take Raja Bell and Kurt Thomas over Richardson and Joe Johnson????.......also what people forget is that Joe Johnson was one of the guys on Phoenix who actually played Defense.......Phoenix looks worst than what they were last year......yes they needed defense, but to mess up your entire roster to gain Brian Grant and Kurt Thomas is foolish imo.............bottom line is Phoenix + Hunter + Johnson + Richardson >>>>>> Phoenix + Grant + Thomas.</div>The Suns gained James Jones, Kurt Thomas, Brian Grant, Raja Bell, Eddie House and Boris Diaw. They lost Quentin Richardson, Joe Johnson and Steven Hunter. Last year, the Suns were a team that could only have Barbosa, Jackson and Hunter off the bench. Now, they can bring Grant, Barbosa, Jackson/Bell, Jones, House and Diaw all off the bench. How did they not get any deeper? Phoenix's best defender is Shawn Marion, and has been for about three seasons now. Losing Johnson won't be a considering the fact that Bell is just as good a three-point shooter and an even better defender. Yes, he doesn't provide as many intangibles, but with Jim Jackson and Raja Bell replacing Johnson, the Suns don't lose as much as many think. They still have five players who can shoot above 37% from three, and their perimeter defense will be much improved with Marion shifting back to small forward, and Jackson and Bell. You guys are overestimating Hunter's role on the Suns last season. He averaged just 13 minutes per game and had 4.6 and 3. Grant could easily provide that, and then some.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now, they can bring Grant, Barbosa, Jackson/Bell, Jones, House and Diaw all off the bench. How did they not get any deeper? </div> Barbosa and Jackson were there last year.....so basically they added House, Grant,Jones, and Diaw (neither one is that big of a deal imo)......and lost Hunter (who helped them a lot last season)....so yes they added people, but the people they added won't make that big of impact (if any at all)......I'm sorry but Brian Grant is basically worthless at this point in his career, I've always liked him, since his days in Sacramento, but at this stage in his career he won't be a big contributor on either side of the ball.
About the bench, the suns really didnt have to use it since most of thier guys played big minutes and the suns only depended on a couple of guys for a few minutes off the bench. Not only that, there wasnt too much of an injury problem for them, so i doubt they can get that lucky again. The bench will have to play a bigger role now that they are less energetic, so a deeper bench isnt much of an upgrade. Another thing about Pheonix is that they lost a lot of offense. The new guys they got arent too offensive minded, and for a team that got to where they are mostly through teh 110 points a night, they would be lucky to keep putting up 100. Cause of that, i see them worse than the rockets, anyone can keep pace with that offense now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">The Suns gained James Jones, Kurt Thomas, Brian Grant, Raja Bell, Eddie House and Boris Diaw. They lost Quentin Richardson, Joe Johnson and Steven Hunter. Last year, the Suns were a team that could only have Barbosa, Jackson and Hunter off the bench. Now, they can bring Grant, Barbosa, Jackson/Bell, Jones, House and Diaw all off the bench. How did they not get any deeper?.</div> Just because they got alot of players, don't mean they're going to be effective. Everyone of those players u mentioned aren't difference makers. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">You guys are overestimating Hunter's role on the Suns last season. He averaged just 13 minutes per game and had 4.6 and 3. Grant could easily provide that, and then some.</div> I think he could have been a difference maker, for one he's athletic, then factor in he's 7feet, and young. He played a key role last year. Not a huge role, but I think he balanced out they're bigman situation.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Just because they got alot of players, don't mean they're going to be effective. Everyone of those players u mentioned aren't difference makers. </div>And Steven Hunter was a difference-maker? Raja Bell and Thomas will have huge impacts because of their defensive games. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think he could have been a difference maker, for one he's athletic, then factor in he's 7feet, and young. He played a key role last year. Not a huge role, but I think he balanced out they're bigman situation.</div>So what if Hunter is athletic, big and young? These guys are a dime a dozen. Hunter had no post game whatsoever and was not a threat on offense. He scored mainly on dunks and garbage points and for that alone he will be sorely missed by Phoenix?
Yes there are many players similar to Hunter, but Phoenix no longer has him, and they've replaced him with two old,undersized PF's.......yes he scored on dunks, but that's exactly the kind of guy that needs to be around for nash, someone who can run the floor,jump, and can finish strong around the basket.........I thought Phoenix's team was fine last year, sure they could've used a big man, but Kurt Thomas and Grant are not the answers imo......I think their coach is partly to blame for there lack of team defense last year....it seems as if the only thing that he was concerned about was scoring.....in all honesty I would've gotten rid of the coach, before I revamped the whole roster.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, shorter guys can get more rebounds than taller guys. You're making a lot of sense. Yao got 12 and 13 rebounds on Thomas last season. So much for center of gravity eh? And Wesley has been a premier defender for a few seasons now, and I saw first hand last season when he was with the Rockets. If you don't even know that, then why are you even debating? Know your facts before you spout some unreasonable garbage. I'm not going to get into the Suns argument again, but the Suns won 62 games last year playing small, and they will probably win at least 55 again doing that. Kurt Thomas will at least do a better job on centers than Amare, and Amare would do a better job on power forwards than Marion, and Marion should revert to his old status as one of the best perimeter defenders in the game. Also, last year, the Suns had Amare and Marion combine for 3.5 blocks per game. Thomas can add one more, so it's not like the Suns are so in need of shotblockers. Jim Jackson, Raja Bell and Nash all shoot over 40% from three, and James Jones is around there. Marion can also go for 37% in a good season, so the Suns didn't really lose any perimeter shooting with the departures of QRich and JJ.</div> 12 and 13 rebounds..whoa. Doesn't seem much when you consider a 6'9 center can average that. I'll admit I'm wrong when you give me facts/stats that Wesley has locked-down, or dropped the efficiency of Kobe, Iverson, Francis, Davis, Kidd, Wade, Terry, and any other top notch/scoring guards out there.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheAnswer2:</div><div class="quote_post">12 and 13 rebounds..whoa. Doesn't seem much when you consider a 6'9 center can average that.</div>So now we're onto the rebounding of Yao? Jeez. Yao averaged 8.3 a game, so 12 and 13 on Thomas doesn't really prove your gravity theory.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'll admit I'm wrong when you give me facts/stats that Wesley has locked-down, or dropped the efficiency of Kobe, Iverson, Francis, Davis, Kidd, Wade, Terry, and any other top notch/scoring guards out there.</div> Kobe Bryant averaged 21.7 ppg on 36.2% shooting in 3 games against the Rockets. Quentin Richardson averaged 10 ppg on 31.9% shooting against the Rockets in four games. Lebron James averaged 11.0 ppg on 25.9% shooting against the Rockets in two. Corey Maggette averaged 18 ppg on 44% shooting in two agains Houston. Jerry Stackhouse shot 31.3% against the Rockets and averaged 13.3 ppg in four regular season games. He shot 40.3% and had nights of 4-13, 4-12 and 3-10 against the Rockets in the playoffs. Keep in mind that David Wesley played shooting guard for the Rockets last year and didn't guard guys like Francis, Davis or Iverson. He always went up against SGs 4-6 inches taller and he still did a marvellous job. He's the best perimeter defender the Rockets have.
Right, but McGrady would've been the more logical choice to guard Lebron. He was listed as a SG but actually played SF most of the time.
