#7 SunnyD vs #6 PFF

Discussion in 'NBA General' started by 808Hornetsfan, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    You will decide which team moves on. Who would win in a head-to-head matchup, who would come out victorious in the battle of the greatest NBA players to ever walk the earth? Let's find out... Make your vote and give a brief explanation, otherwise it will not be counted. So let's get started!! :dribble: <div align="center"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">SunnyD 4 PFF 2</span></div>Starting LineupsSunnyDC: Artis Gilmore 18.8 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 2.3 apg, 2.4 bpgPF: Bob Pettit 26.4 ppg, 16,2 rpg, 3.0 apgSF: George Gervin 25.1 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 2.6 apgSG: Allen Iverson 27.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 6.2 apg, 2.3 spgPG: Oscar Robertson 25.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 9.5 apg, 1.1 spgPFFC: Shaquille O'Neal 25.9 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.8 apg, 2.5 bpgPF: Alonzo Mourning 17.4 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 2.8 bpgSF: John Havlicek 20.8 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 4.8 apgSG: Julius Erving 24.2 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 4.2 apg, 2.0 spg, 1.7 bpgPG: Jason Kidd 14.5 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 9.2 apg, 2.0 spgFull RostersSunnyDPG Oscar Robertson: 6'5" 205lbs.PG Dennis Johnson: 6'4" 185lbs.PG Sam Cassel: 6'3" 185lbs.SG Allen Iverson: 6'0" 165lbs.SG Mark Aguirre: 6'6" 232lbs.SG Jeff Hornacek: 6'3" 190lbs.SF George Gervin: 6'7" 180lbs.SF Bobby Jones: 6'9" 210lbs.PF Bob Pettit: 6'9" 205lbs.PF Dave DeBusschere: 6'6" 220lbs.C Artis Gilmore: 7'2" 240lbs.C Nate Thurmond: 6'11" 225lbs.PFFPG Jason Kidd: 6'4" 205lbs.PG Lenny Wilkens: 6'1" 180lbs.PG Tim Hardaway: 6'0" 175lbs.SG Julius Erving: 6'6" 200lbs.SG Sam Jones: 6'4" 198lbs.SF John Havlicek: 6'5" 203lbs.SF Shawn Marion: 6'7" 220lbs.SF Bruce Bowen: 6'7" 185lbs.PF Alonzo Mourning: 6'10" 240lbs.PF Dan Issel: 6'9" 235lbs.C Shaquille O'Neal: 7'1" 300lbs.C Spencer Haywood: 6'8" 225lbs.
     
  2. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

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    good golly this is a great match up.one guy has the slight edge at one posistion, the other has it at the next.sick sick match up.gonna have to think on this one...
     
  3. noballer08

    noballer08 BBW Elite Member

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    OK, here we go.Point GuardOscar Robertson. That's all I gotta say. Sunny D.Shooting GuardIverson and Dr. J. Wow. I have to go with PFF here, Dr. J was much better defensively and could drive and score at a very good clip. Not to mention he is one of the best dunkers/finishers in NBA history around the rim. Iverson comes in quite close, IMO. I like the pick of Mark Aguirre; played quite a few positions and was a very good scorer, but Sam Jones as the scorer off the bench and Dr. J kinda trumps. Small ForwardGeorge Gervin vs. John Havlicek. Gervin was a very good scorer in the 70's-80's and is known for his sweet finger roll layup. Now Havlicek wasn't as good of a scorer, but is widely known for "Havlicek stole the ball!" On the bench, I think SunnyD struck gold in Bobby Jones who was a good defender, and PFF has do-it-all Shawn Marion and defender Bruce Bowen. I think SunnyD has this.Power ForwardBob Petit and DeBusschere are seen as two of the best power forwards in the NBA's early days. Petit absolutely dominated in scoring, rebounding, defense. DeBusschere was quite versatile. Now, PFF has Zo and Dan Issel; Zo being one of the best shotblocking threats of the 90s; Issel being a great scorer in the ABA but less of one in the NBA. I like SunnyD here.CenterThe A-Train vs Shaq!! Shaq is one of the most dominant centers in NBA history and Gilmore generally isn't seen as being near that. But, after Shaq, there is Brendan Haywood? SunnyD has an amazing rebounder in Nate Thurmond. Very tough, but ONLY because of Shaq, this goes to PFF.My vote is to Sunny D
     
  4. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

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    alrighty then, let's go through this.PGOscar is the better PG for sure, but Kidd is no slouch and it's not a total cakewalk.SGDr. J usually played SF, but could play SG for sure. He's better at everything except the outside shot over AI. Defending AI would be tough, but his leaping ability would erase some layups after AI blows by the good Dr. Dr J take this thoughSF The Iceman was a prolific scorer but Havlicek was a known nusance because he was pure energy. Everyone who talks about playing against him talks about how he never stopped and would be going as hard in the 4th as he was in the 1st. Over the length of the game I like Havlicek to do all the little things to slow the iceman down and contribute to the team.PF Pettit vs Zo = break out the ice packs. These two would get in a fist fight over a 7 game series it'd be so fierce. Pettit was the first player to score over 20,000 points for a career.give me pettit in a close onehttp://basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm.cgi...o01&y2=1965CShaq in a landslide. The A-Train was a tough man, but this is Shaq and he's gonna take care of just about anyone 1 on 1 not named Wilt, Kareem or Hakeem.Bench:PG is a wash with Dennis Johnson and Sam Cassell vs Lenny Wilkins and Timmy HardawaySG well Mark Aguire is NOT a SG, he was a post player, one of those guys the found openings vs bigger defenders. He was more apt to play SF then PF. Never SG.Hornacek brings a skill to the team. Sam Jones does more. One is in the HOF.. the other may visit the HOF but he ain't going in there. Sam Jones is the pick.SF Bobby Jones and Shawn Marion stop each other from scoring against one another.. ever Bruce Bowen gets frustrated by Aguire because he can't out muscle and bully him, he used to being guarded by PF's and knocked around and still getting his shot off. Bruce gets free 3 pt shots as Mark isn't comfortable out there. SF is a wash.PF Dan Issel vs Debusschere. One is a top ten all time PF, the other was a very good scorer. edge DebusschereC- It's SPENCER Haywood vs Nate Thurmond. Closer than people realise but I'm going with Nate.wow, this is a toughie.PFF has the advantage at SG, SF and C Sunny D has it at PG and PF Bench is close too.I think Kidd, Dr. J, Havlicek and Shaq take it though.my vote goes to PFF in one of the best match ups.
     
  5. GArenas

    GArenas Wiz Fo Champz

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    I'm going to go ahead and take SunnyD. He's got a dynamic scoring lineup with AI, Gervin, and Pettit all on the floor at the same time. Also, they're a pretty dominant rebounding team. I feel as though PFF would be overwhelmed on defense with this squad.
     
  6. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 26 2007, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I feel as though PFF would be overwhelmed on defense with this squad.</div>with Shaq, Zo, Kidd and Havlicek on the floor?really?
     
  7. SunnyD

    SunnyD Sexiest Poster Alive (Yessir)

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    People don't realize how good Nate Thurmond was. Had Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell (the 2nd and 4th players selected) played in a different era, Thurmond would have made many All-NBA first teams and All-NBA Defensive teams.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Some basketball observers have suggested that the 6-11 Thurmond provided the best mix of offense and defense in basketball history. Many say that his defense was better than Chamberlain's, and that his offense was better than Bill Russell's. With quickness and long hands, a smooth outside shooting touch, tenacious rebounding, classic shotblocking ability, and a total team attitude, Thurmond offered a perfectly balanced package.</div>-NBA.com/historyI don't like how some of you guys are grading this, I'm not complaining or anything, but, it's like comparing the Pistons to the Cavs from this past season:PG Billups vs. GibsonSG Hamilton vs. PavlovicSF Prince vs. JamesPF Wallace vs. GoodenC Webber vs. IlgauskusApparently the Pistons would win, but you have to take into account x-factors and intangibles.
     
  8. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

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    how would you suggest we grade it?I broke it down posistion by posistion but thought of their accomplishments as well.and FYI, take a look at Spencer Haywoods accomplishments.His stats and ability stack up pretty well with Thurmond.Still I gave it to Thurmond...
     
  9. PFF

    PFF BBW Member

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    Are you guys kidding me? you guys are totally wrong on your opinions (except for Celticfan)In my starting line up, you will find no weakness, none, everything is there, my roster is a lot better, every player on my team is a winner, a team player, a playmaker, and a defender. You will not find the same on SunnyD's teamMy vote goes to my team, and Shaq votes for my team too, so that's +2 fo my team
     
  10. CB4allstar

    CB4allstar BBW Global Mod Team

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    ^Ban?My vote goes to SunnyD. Look how many amazing scorers he has on his team in Pettit, Iverson, Gervin and Robertson. PFF's players don't really fit into position...Mourning was a Center, not a power forward..and there is no way that Dr. J played the 2...I would say PFF had alot of ill advised picks for his bench, and SunnyD has alot of good players off the bench.His team is better.
     
  11. PFF

    PFF BBW Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 26 2007, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^Ban?My vote goes to SunnyD. Look how many amazing scorers he has on his team in Pettit, Iverson, Gervin and Robertson. PFF's players don't really fit into position...Mourning was a Center, not a power forward..and there is no way that Dr. J played the 2...I would say PFF had alot of ill advised picks for his bench, and SunnyD has alot of good players off the bench.His team is better.</div>That's stupid. Zo can play PF, C and PF are pretty much interchangable. And my roster is better than his by a mile. Scorers are nothing but stat stuffers. I would cream SunnyD's team in a gameAnother insult and you're suspended
     
  12. Pacers fan forever

    Pacers fan forever BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PFF @ Jul 26 2007, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's stupid. Zo can play PF, C and PF are pretty much interchangable. And my roster is better than his by a mile. Scorers are nothing but stat stuffers. I would cream SunnyD's team in a gameAnother insult and you're suspended</div>ha, yeah, maybe I'll be banned away from your stupid egoistic b*tch self too@ keep coming up with more paradise CB4!
     
  13. noballer08

    noballer08 BBW Elite Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 26 2007, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^Ban?My vote goes to SunnyD. Look how many amazing scorers he has on his team in Pettit, Iverson, Gervin and Robertson. PFF's players don't really fit into position...Mourning was a Center, not a power forward..and there is no way that Dr. J played the 2...I would say PFF had alot of ill advised picks for his bench, and SunnyD has alot of good players off the bench.His team is better.</div>SunnyD's team is better, but definitely not for the reasons you outlined. Mourning is certainly as effective at power forward as he is at center (you could even say he has more of an advantage at the 4) and Dr. J's scoring skills would definitely suggest that he is a 2/3. That is not as important at all.
     
  14. SunnyD

    SunnyD Sexiest Poster Alive (Yessir)

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PFF @ Jul 26 2007, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's stupid. Zo can play PF, C and PF are pretty much interchangable. And my roster is better than his by a mile. Scorers are nothing but stat stuffers. I would cream SunnyD's team in a gameAnother insult and you're suspended</div>My team's coach would be better than yours. (SunnyD>PacerfanForever)[​IMG] PF and C aren't interchangable. Just ask Charles Barkley. Or Andrea Bargniani. Or Al Harrington. Or Dan Issel.Scorers are nothing but stat stuffers? Nice Dan Issel Pick. But really, your dumb.It's a good matchup though PFF. Pretty even teams. But I'm not going to vote for myself in hopes of winning.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PFF @ Jul 26 2007, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you guys kidding me? you guys are totally wrong on your opinions (except for Celticfan)In my starting line up, you will find no weakness, none, everything is there, my roster is a lot better, every player on my team is a winner, a team player, a playmaker, and a defender. You will not find the same on SunnyD's teamMy vote goes to my team, and Shaq votes for my team too, so that's +2 fo my team</div>What's my starting lineup's weakness? Also, you can't tell people they have wrong opinions. Your not God. Your bias is showing though. And when did Tim Hardaway become a defender and a winner?Celticfan, I don't really have a different suggestion, but that's not the way I would grade it.
     
  15. 808Hornetsfan

    808Hornetsfan BBW VIP

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    My vote goes to SunnyD, you look at PFF's roster and it's more of a defense-oriented team. Sure they would be able to shut down a few guys here and there, but look how many weapons SunnyD has to use. Even his bench could out-score PFF's lineup, and he's got a team of winners, meaning they all have success in the Championship department. I really can't go any further in my explanation, most of you guys should understand why SunnyD > PFF.
     
  16. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a great match up.If these 2 teams played 7, best of 7 series, it?d go 47 games.That?s how close I see this.I don?t disagree with picking Sunny D but I disagree with some of the logic.First off, some of you are forgetting who Alzono Mourning played with at Georgetown. Dikembe Mutombo. Let me tell you, they were both starters? guess who the PF was on that team. Zo is a very athletic C who could easily switch over to PF.He?s an undersized C anyway. He?s smaller than, Tim Duncan for instance.So that argument is null and void IMO. As for scoring, Sunny D has more scorers for sure, but PPF has Dr. J and Shaq, two of the greatest scorers ever. Havlicek was that guy who did all the little things and the big things to help his team win. He was also a 20 ppg scorer for his career (26,000 total for his career btw). Kidd is the facilitator that makes scoring easier for everyone. Saying Dr J couldn?t play SG is like saying Jordan or Kobe or Vince Carter couldn?t player SG/SF. Guys that talented can play either position and often have.Now Dr J?s natural position was SF mostly due to the teams he played on but at 6?6? you?re saying he couldn?t play SG??! I love this match up and find it flawed to insinuate that it?s an obvious or easy choice to choose one over the other.
     
  17. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SunnyD @ Jul 26 2007, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>People don't realize how good Nate Thurmond was. Had Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell (the 2nd and 4th players selected) played in a different era, Thurmond would have made many All-NBA first teams and All-NBA Defensive teams.-NBA.com/historyI don't like how some of you guys are grading this, I'm not complaining or anything, but, it's like comparing the Pistons to the Cavs from this past season:PG Billups vs. GibsonSG Hamilton vs. PavlovicSF Prince vs. JamesPF Wallace vs. GoodenC Webber vs. IlgauskusApparently the Pistons would win, but you have to take into account x-factors and intangibles.</div>but with players from so many different eras and having most people not having seen the majority of them play (we got people who haven't even seen Shawn Kemp play on BBWorld for crying out loud) how can you expect people to accurately use x-factors and intangibles?It's a great idea, but the differrences betweens todays game and the way it was played in the 50's and 60's it's hard.Stats help to gain perspective and compairing each posistion does too.Myself, I didn't just weigh in the vs compairison, but used to show my reasoning and perspective.saying "so and so has a better team, just look at it" isn't much of a valid arguement IMO.sure it's not ideal but the method for judging these match ups is not clear cut.even the criteria isn't.some people disregard stats, which I don't understand. If you've never seen most of these guys play, how can you say how they would do vs another player? You just can't.
     
  18. CB4allstar

    CB4allstar BBW Global Mod Team

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noballer07 @ Jul 26 2007, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>SunnyD's team is better, but definitely not for the reasons you outlined. Mourning is certainly as effective at power forward as he is at center (you could even say he has more of an advantage at the 4) and Dr. J's scoring skills would definitely suggest that he is a 2/3. That is not as important at all.</div>Yes, it's true that these guys COULD play those other positions, but so can almost every NBA player. Almost every NBA player can play more than one position. But I think for this mock draft, you should fit the players in for their natural positions.
     
  19. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 27 2007, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, it's true that these guys COULD play those other positions, but so can almost every NBA player. Almost every NBA player can play more than one position. But I think for this mock draft, you should fit the players in for their natural positions.</div>why?these are the best of the best, they're gonna be able to play more posistions save for some smaller PG's and Big immobile Centers.Larry Bird played a lot of PF and SF, but because he's usually defined as a SF, you COULDN'T place him at PF?that's absurd.I have Dirk at my SF because he's my 2nd most talented forward and he's got the skills to play SF on offence.Wilt can gobble up anyone driving around him.stop being so anal.
     
  20. SunnyD

    SunnyD Sexiest Poster Alive (Yessir)

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    Did I win? What the hell happened to BBW? lol
     

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