Maybe it will come back to Daunte but yesterday he didn't seem nearly as threatning when the threat of him running wasn't there. I remember when the Vikings were inside the redzone you just knew he was going to make something happen. Wonder if he's 100% yet or if he'll just become a pocket passer
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ive heard he didnt throw the flag far enough...thats crap, red flag anywhere on the green field should be noticed....im told he didnt throw it soon enough....thats crap too, he was 3-4 seconds ahead of the snap and anything ahead of the snap is soon enough....I can remember lots of time when an xp was kicked while the whistle was blowing because the coach challenged a play at the end....</div> Yes, the refs screwed up, and no you can't say that the Steelers would have scored - you never know what's going to happen. I just thought his attempt at challenging was funny. Bad call by the ref? Absolutely. The runner was clearly out of bounds before he reached the end zone. There is no question in my mind that they flubbed that one.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bakes781)</div><div class='quotemain'>This is very unbecoming of the DWO to rant over a challenge flag that had it even been overturned more than likely would have only resulted in less time on the clock for your Phins to come back. With that said as I mentioned on the Key to Thursdays Game thread I believe there is a buzzer that coaches are given to alert the refs, so Saban has no recourse IMO.</div> Part of being a fan is being an armchair QB and playing the what if game. I stated in the thread in question that it would not have affected the game, etc... The 1st words out of mouth after the reply was "Don't throw the flag. There is not enough "indisputable" (royalty check is on the way Dale) evidence turn it. My brother put in perspective. Nick half-a$$ed the throw out there at the last possible second to cover all his bases. If Saban wants lessons in cavalier clock managment and the like then there is always Martz & Holmgren to teach him. LOL. Seriously, Bakes. Beef, Dale, & I were nothing but gracious and reasonable last night. You are getting far more bent about the phins than we are. Are you worried about the patsies, hmmmmm?
I think you have to realize that lots of things happened throughout the course of the game. The refs blew what I thought was pass interference in the early part of the game. Even Al and John thought it was pretty obvious that Wilson's arms were hit and pulled down before the ball got there. Was Heath Miller out of bounds? Yes. Would the Steelers have scored there? I would say more than 50% chance of at least a field goal. But in all fairness who knows? Maybe Batch throws a pick. Maybe Parker or Haynes fumble, or maybe even another fumbled snap. But there's no point in playing guess what would have happened. The reality of it is this, Saban took to long to throw the flag. No one knows how it would have effected the outcome of the game. Keep in mind that the Steelers moved the ball pretty well and only a fumbled snap kept them from running away with it after an 82 yard drive. The defense all but shut down the run even though Brown had 2 TD's, he wasn't very effective. The field kept Taylor from stopping Chambers on two big 3rd down conversions as he couldn't get his footing. I think the Dolphins have hope for the season. They played well in a game that was on the road against the defending champs. Culpepper made some questionable decisions late in the game, but overall, I thought he played well. The Steelers were the better team last night, which is no real surprise. Parker ran well, Batch played well overall, and Hines Ward looks like he's about 90%. It was an exciting game to watch. Good luck Phins! Hope to see you again in January.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bakes781)</div><div class='quotemain'>This is very unbecoming of the DWO to rant over a challenge flag that had it even been overturned more than likely would have only resulted in less time on the clock for your Phins to come back. With that said as I mentioned on the Key to Thursdays Game thread I believe there is a buzzer that coaches are given to alert the refs, so Saban has no recourse IMO.</div> Part of being a fan is being an armchair QB and playing the what if game. I stated in the thread in question that it would not have affected the game, etc... The 1st words out of mouth after the reply was "Don't throw the flag. There is not enough "indisputable" (royalty check is on the way Dale) evidence turn it. My brother put in perspective. Nick half-a$$ed the throw out there at the last possible second to cover all his bases. If Saban wants lessons in cavalier clock managment and the like then there is always Martz & Holmgren to teach him. LOL. Seriously, Bakes. Beef, Dale, & I were nothing but gracious and reasonable last night. You are getting far more bent about the phins than we are. Are you worried about the patsies, hmmmmm?</div> Then what's the point of mentioning it at all? I thought we were above excuses? How am I being bent out of shape? Perhaps you can explain how you're even capable of identifying emotion through the words I type. And I'm not the one predicting what my rival posters are going to say the next morning. So I believe it is you(by you I mean the collective you) that is clearly worried & with good reason after last night's performance.
FYI, I am a very left-brained, pragmatic, individual. If you can perceive my opinions as excuses then you are some kind of Kreskin/Karnak like prodigy. Turnabout is fair play. So, I can speculate about how your emotional state. You IMO are the kind that wears your heart on your sleeve. Great. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Worried? After Miami's loss to Cleveland last season, I was concerned. <u>Let me reiterate again</u> that I am disappointed but no more than you when the pats lose. I can't control what happened last night. All I can do is Trust Nick. Its about the process not results
Its silly to worry about things you cant control....I find when I worry during games, I dont enjoy myself....I used to take it very personally and fester in my own juices whenever the Dolphins lost, but no longer....I adhere to the "midnight" rule....you savor the victory or suffer the lose until midnight, then its gone forever and your on to the next week....on that note, bring on the Buffalo Bills....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Its silly to worry about things you cant control....I find when I worry during games, I dont enjoy myself....I used to take it very personally and fester in my own juices whenever the Dolphins lost, but no longer....I adhere to the "midnight" rule....you savor the victory or suffer the lose until midnight, then its gone forever and your on to the next week....on that note, bring on the Buffalo Bills....</div> We'll be sure to soften them up for ya I know you won't hesitate to dog my team out the moment any sort of setback arises. I'm prepared for a hard fought season. I'm not foolish enough to right you off after 1 game, but that's all we have to go on so far.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bakes781)</div><div class='quotemain'>This is very unbecoming of the DWO to rant over a challenge flag that had it even been overturned more than likely would have only resulted in less time on the clock for your Phins to come back. With that said as I mentioned on the Key to Thursdays Game thread I believe there is a buzzer that coaches are given to alert the refs, so Saban has no recourse IMO.</div> Get with the program, Bakes. Did you bother to read my opening post that said while I was not happy about the challange flag not being seen that I didn't think it should take away from the Steelers' victory or my second post in this thread where I said that the Steelers deserved to win? Quit rejecting reality and substituting your fabrications so we can have a debate that's worth my time. As for offering excuses, that's another fabrication. None of the DWO has claimed that the outcome would be different had the flag been seen. It would be an excuse if we were saying that we got robbed and should have won the game. No one has made that claim. Is it really that hard to understand. We're talking about the flag because it's clearly a topic worth discussing. Michaels said that the buzzers were eliminated and Collingsworth came to the booth to explain the rules which even Madden wasn't aware of. The NFL needs to fix this by assigning an official somewhere to watch the head coach so that if he throws the flag onto the field, anywhere on the field of play, that it's seen. It's stupid for the NFL to put the onus on the head coach to have his flag been seen on time and asking for an explosive incident to occur when some coach loses it because he can't get someone's attention. If they leave it as it is, I really hope and pray that it's the Patriots that get screwed so we can see how you react. I'm just glad that this incident didn't really cost the Dolphins anything that we weren't going to lose anyway.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bakes781)</div><div class='quotemain'>This is very unbecoming of the DWO to rant over a challenge flag that had it even been overturned more than likely would have only resulted in less time on the clock for your Phins to come back. With that said as I mentioned on the Key to Thursdays Game thread I believe there is a buzzer that coaches are given to alert the refs, so Saban has no recourse IMO.</div> Get with the program, Bakes. Did you bother to read my opening post that said while I was not happy about the challange flag not being seen that I didn't think it should take away from the Steelers' victory or my second post in this thread where I said that the Steelers deserved to win? Quit rejecting reality and substituting your fabrications so we can have a debate that's worth my time. As for offering excuses, that's another fabrication. None of the DWO has claimed that the outcome would be different had the flag been seen. It would be an excuse if we were saying that we got robbed and should have won the game. No one has made that claim. Is it really that hard to understand. We're talking about the flag because it's clearly a topic worth discussing. Michaels said that the buzzers were eliminated and Collingsworth came to the booth to explain the rules which even Madden wasn't aware of. The NFL needs to fix this by assigning an official somewhere to watch the head coach so that if he throws the flag onto the field, anywhere on the field of play, that it's seen. It's stupid for the NFL to put the onus on the head coach to have his flag been seen on time and asking for an explosive incident to occur when some coach loses it because he can't get someone's attention. If they leave it as it is, I really hope and pray that it's the Patriots that get screwed so we can see how you react. I'm just glad that this incident didn't really cost the Dolphins anything that we weren't going to lose anyway.</div> speaking of those who where their heart on their sleeves I hadn't realized the buzzers were eliminated, so for that I apologize. However as you said Collinsworth did explain the rule & Madden being unaware of something comes as no shock to me. The shock would be if Saban wasn't & apparently that is the case. He could have gone on to the field & grabbed the ref's attention. Instead he clearly hesitated & in sports if you hesitate more often than not it will cost you.
I don't know about "wearing my heart on my sleeve." I do tend to be a straight shooter. I like good debate. If I say, "the sky is blue" and you respond, "I can't believe you said the sky is orange. That's crap," I don't consider that good debate. I consider that being silly and a waste of my time and it irritates me. Of course, you never addressed my question about having read my first two posts because anyone with decent reading comprehension knows that I never said the sky was orange or the Dolphins should have won the game regardless of the flag being seen or not. As for the buzzers being gone, if you were watching, Saban was fiddling with something on his side which I thought was the buzzer right before he threw the flag. I thought he was trying to buzz the officials until Al Michaels said the buzzers were removed because they couldn't solve the glitches. Everybody assumes that throwing the flag was an easy decision but Saban couldn't see the replay and he had to weigh throwing the flag and the possibility of losing a timeout that the Dolphins would need if the score stood. Throw in the decision to go ahead and let the Steelers score stand or give them the ball at the one with the chance to kill a lot more time and score anyway. Personally, I believe that too much responsibility is put on the head coaches to do the officials job. He has to manage his timeouts to take into consideration that an official might screw up and he will need to fix it and now he has to not only make the decision to throw the flag, but he has to take responsibility for the official seeing the flag. I think that's stupid.
You wanna debate the challenge system that's fine. But the timing of it smells very fishy if you will. And I'd appreciate it if you stopped talking down to me like I'm some child. You know it's very easy for you to talk smack when you've got 2 other vets of this forum backing you up at all times. I'm here every day defendning my views alone. I could choose to post soley at a Pats based forum, but I choose to post here because I like a good debate as well. I'm not about to back down no matter how many I'm out numbered by. If the same scenario happened to my team I would admit my QB sucked & the defense let me down. I would not choose to go on a long rant about how the challenge system needs to be reworked & then say oh but that's not an excuse. The simple fact that you even brought it up means you feel it had an affect on the outcome.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bakes781)</div><div class='quotemain'>You wanna debate the challenge system that's fine. But the timing of it smells very fishy if you will. And I'd appreciate it if you stopped talking down to me like I'm some child. You know it's very easy for you to talk smack when you've got 2 other vets of this forum backing you up at all times. I'm here every day defendning my views alone. I could choose to post soley at a Pats based forum, but I choose to post here because I like a good debate as well. I'm not about to back down no matter how many I'm out numbered by. If the same scenario happened to my team I would admit my QB sucked & the defense let me down. I would not choose to go on a long rant about how the challenge system needs to be reworked & then say oh but that's not an excuse. The simple fact that you even brought it up means you feel it had an affect on the outcome.</div> No, it doesn't mean that I feel it had an affect on the outcome. I said exactly what I meant in the first post. My first post is clear and concise. I won't accept responsibility for people ignoring it. The timing of it smells? It occured in last night's game. We're talking about last night's game today. When do you want me to bring it up? Next month? It will be a real timely discussion then. I'm not trying to talk down to you, but you keep misrepresenting what I'm saying and defending myself against things that I didn't say gets old. As for the DWO, we're not that close knit as a group. BA and I exchange messages from time to time, but certainly not on a daily basis and I really don't know the Beef at all except through his posts. We certainly aren't conferring as to what stand we're going to take on certain issues and we've clearly disagreed from time to time. BA and I took different stances on the Super Bowl officiating and Reggie White's speech blunder for example. I'm not asking you to back down or post only in the Pats forum. For what it's worth, I think your a pretty good guy. I just don't think your very objective when it comes to the Pats, sometimes your arguments lack substance and you refuse to acknowledge good points made by others, but I'm glad your here.* *most of the time
lol well don't worry I'm here to stay. At least until my work catches on that I'm chatting at a sports board on their dime. :whistle: The funny thing is I actually agree that the challenge system is flawed. This is just the 1st time I've heard you bring it up, but then I don't track a history of everyone's posting habits. I've said in the past that a team shouldn't be limited to just 2 challenges. If a challenge is upheld then the team shouldn't lose 1 of it's challenges. I disagree with the change they made this offseason allowing plays ruled down by contact to be reviewable. I think that's only going to open a whole new can of worms.
I'm curious when this got unreasonable. I'm a Steeler fan and the DWO never offended me or made excuses. Why take it this direction? Other than you're a division rival relishing in the Dolphins defeat, I see no other purpose. It's not like your a big Steeler fan. ??
The only black & gold I used to support were the Bruins. Jeremy Jacobs continues to feast on that cash cow.
saban was fiddling with the transmitter at his side and my 1st reaction was that his buzzer wasnt working too....he really looked like he was frantically pushing a button while clutching that flag to death....after Collinsworth told us that the buzzers were gone, I assumed he was having trouble communicating with his coaches in the booth....everyone at home assumes its easy to see when somethings should be replayed because we saw it in zoom and in super slow motion 18 times in 10 seconds, but a coach on the sideline did not....consider, that hes on the opposite sideline of a hostile stadium....whoever is running the jumbotron is in no hurry to show him what happened, so he relies completely upstairs....if theres a communication problem, and judging by the fiddlin', there could have been, that would certainly account for the indecisiveness....
That does not excuse the lathadasical way in which saban threw the flag. If you want to overturn a Touchdown, you need go gain the attention of an umpire, thats the point of the red flag, to alert an official. There's no point in throwing it a few feet and pointing at it. He should have run down the sideline and thrown in front of an official even at an official. I was having a conversation yesterday, and it quickly got onto the subject of having specialist flag throwers that run onto the field and throw the flag right in front of referees view. There are lots of other people employed by organisations with much less meaningful jobs so why not? One things for sure, the Dolphins would have benifited from a specialist flag thrower last night.
Ok, I was one of the first people to bring up Saban's weak throw of the flag - but I was only doing it to make fun of Saban. It's the REF'S fault that they didn't see the flag. Saban got the flag on the field with PLENTY of time. A ref can easily look over to see if there is a bright red flag on a green field. That's their job. I'm almost sorry I made fun of Saban - I don't want to be thought of as blaming him for the ref's mistakes. One game into the season and we are already yelling about the refs.
