Accept Miami Deal or bring Lillard to Camp?

Sometimes they're worth nothing. Other times they're worth a fortune. See the Celtics getting Tatum and Brown in the Nets trade.

Mediocre veterans are certainly never going to change the long term direction of this franchise. Better to take some swings than settle for mediocrity.

 

I offer Dame the opportunity to continue to add to his Portland Trail Blazers statistics. If he wishes to begin logging statistics for another team, have his agent to begin lobbying for teams to improve their offers.

 

Certainly one way to look at it.

 

If Miami's current offer is Herro, Jaquez, Jovic along with their FRPs in 2024, 28 and 30 plus a swap or swaps then I don't think Dame or his camp would want the Heat to give up more. I think any other pieces for instance Martin, hurts Dame's chances at a chip.

I don't know if the Heat have offered all of that at this time but it's possible they could be offering it and Joe is saying that's not enough we need Martin too and in that case I really doubt Dame's camp would be pressuring the Heat to give into Cronin's demand. Herro or whatever he would bring from a third team, Martin or his return from a third or fourth team, Jovic, Jaquez and three unprotected firsts one of which would almost be guaranteed to be late in the first round probably isn't even fair value for Dame considering what we already have seen Durant go for (adjusting for the fact that Durant is obviously the superior player) and what we saw the Jazz get for lesser players even if they are younger.

I guess what I'm saying is maybe Joe is just holding really firm and saying if you're not giving me Jimmy or Bam, I'm taking everything else that isn't nailed down because we won't be getting fair value, so I'm not budging. It's also possible that Miami is really really low balling us holding out on doing what it takes to regain trade access to the 2024 FRP and/or trying to make us choose between their underwhelming prospects (Jaquez and Jovic) and Joe would take the offer I laid out in the first sentence of this post. Who the fuck knows?

 

Obviously we are all fatigued by all this Dame stuff—in fact it still has that surreal feel—but why, in the last long while, is it that the life of a Trail Blazer fan involves so many unsatisfactory options, whether it be too many guards on the roster for example or I don’t know overwhelmingly underwhelming trade offers?

 

Well, they do have to offer a little bit more for the salaries to match. But like you say in the last line, who the fuck knows what has been offered.

I am ok with letting them keep Martin because he has 1 year left and I would rather go young with JJjr at the same position who is 20 lbs bigger. The 2024 FRP I bet is a sticking point

 

Yep. This right here.

 

Whenever I think of these deals I tend to think instead of taking on Duncan Robinson it would make more sense for us and for Miami if we sent Nurk with Dame and got Lowry back. I think Lowry is the kind of vet that would be great to have on the bench mentoring Scoot. I think on a lot of nights the Heat have been undersized and I don't think that Thomas Bryant is the answer to that, at least not as good of an answer as Nurk would be.

 

Yes, I have come around to the Lowry option, but I bet that the mentoring would only be for about 5 months before we release Lowry so he could join a contending team that may have some injuries at PG. Still, 5 months is better than nothing.

 

no it's not guaranteed and the claim ignores reality.

for one thing, the encumbrance is till 2028. It's easy to imagine the Blazers not being in the playoffs at any time over the next 4 seasons. Meaning, the only pick Portland would have to swap is a lottery pick...which they almost certainly wouldn't swap

in my view, people talking about 2025-2027 swaps are trying to persuade others that some of these fantasy trades are better than they actually are. PDX/Miami swaps in the 2025-27 seasons are essentially worthless window dressing

 

Blazers would swap the pick if it was higher than Heat's - doesn't matter if its in the lottery or not.

Encumbrance yes applies to 2028, but it can only apply to a single year that's why it can't apply to BOTH 2025 and 2027. Pick swap encumbrance is not a stephen restriction, its only if the pick is elsewhere (with Chicago) which can only happen for a single year.

Maybe you value the pick swap far less than me. Maybe I value it much more than you. Plenty of room to agree to disagree. I put a ton of stock into the draft equity from Miami and yes the swaps would be a significant part of that. I put very little stock into all players named in Dame rumors outside Scottie Barnes. There is no elaborate scheme to persuade posters to my fantasies LMAO. They're just my opinions of NBA trade assets worth. I could care less what posters here are or aren't persuaded with trade ideas, tons of posters believe all sorts of ridiculous ideas and others have great ideas.

NBA front offices obviously value pick swaps or we wouldn't have seen the Suns able to acquire future picks for a swaps of an already agreed to lesser swap.

 

This is how I'd value the assets from Miami ranked from most to least valuable:

2030 unprotected pick
2028 unprotected pick
2029 swap
2027 swap
Martin
Herro
Jovic
2024 unprotected pick
Jaquez
2025 swap
2nd rounder

 

The Phx 2029 and 2027 picks that Brooklyn has would be ranked up at the top with those top two Miami picks, maybe above both. Thats why I think its pretty unrealistic to get Brooklyn giving up much if any of that in a Herro 3 way. Simmons deal isn't that bad, it expires next season and they aren't likely trying to contend this year anyways.

 

Herro, Lowry, Jaquez, Jovic, 2 picks, 2 swaps for Dame, Nurk

Should be countered with

Ant, Nas, Kris, Rayan, 2 picks, 2 swaps for Bam, Caleb

 

obviously, but if Dame is in Miami, what are the chances Miami has a higher draft pick over the next 4 seasons? 5%? 3%? 1%

I'd agree with the first 3 on the list, after that...meh; and that's being generous. A 2nd round pick is probably worth more than those earlier swaps

besides that, I'm fairly convinced that Riley is demanding protections on at least one of those picks, maybe both

 

Martin is a decent player, and yes he looked good in the playoffs, but much like past Spurs or Warrior players who left, I am very leery of Heat players having the same defensive success for other teams. I mean the guy had a career year last year and still only averaged 9.6 ppg, 1 steal, 4.8 rbs, 1.6 assists.

The others might turn out to be worse.....but I would still value them higher than a guy who is a UFA next year. IMHO most of us are undervaluing Jaquez because he played all 4 years at UCLA. I see him as another Matt Barnes-type player on D.....but better on offense.

 

I been watching some of the games last year and seriously I don't think Miami is probably saying we can take or leave getting Dame. To me Dame doesn't really fit in Miami structure. Miami offense is about movement and actually running a offense. If Dame don't have the ball he show little movement at all. Plus how many times Miami going take for Dame come over half and shoot the ball from the Lego and brinks it yes at times he makes it but he also brink a lot of those too. Now talk about defense Dame actually ball watch more the he actually plays defense and plus I don't know how many times he is on the low box and just stand in one place that surely not how Miami plays defense. Thing I am telling Dame is not Miami type player. Yes Dame can score but at times he shoot out of games when he going 1-11 at the 3 point line. Plus at times I see Dame calls his number 7 straight times without no or little ball movement. I really don't think Butler or Bam going really appreciate him doing that while there on floor. Now just maybe Riley also see this and maybe that's the reason there not going up any offer to get Dame. So I see Dame will be back Portland at least the start or longer or until adds teams for a trade if he actually wants to leave Portland I can feel he don't want to leave as it seems maybe that the reason he target Miami the only team he wants to go to because he probably knows they probably couldn't come up with a good enough package to get him. Because it they did he would be already traded to Miami.

 

What you mentioned is for Dame and Nurk, not just Dame. At least that was the rumor tgis past weekend