All-Era Playoffs

Eh...dunno about that, haven't actually tried messing with the polls before. But I never liked the idea of knowing who voted for who cause I didn't want some people getting personal you know? (Not citing you)

 

I agree with you completely, there is no need for any of this to get personal.

I'd say it also has a lot to do with me having a better team.

 

I'll say it then, it's bullshit.

I don't care if anyone takes it personal. Why in the hell is there 26 votes for one poll and only 5 for the other? either it's some dumbass 15 yr olds voting for what they know, or Heuvon is using PM's to make ppl aware of his pole. What other explanation is there to vote for one and not the other?
and yesterday when I checked the poles, it was like 5-0 for agoo.

that is pure and simple bullshit for it to shift that much

Heuvon's polls have by far the most votes in the first round, that's not pure luck...

 

I'll say it then, I don't want to be around any sore losers. Everyone has free will around here, I don't want to hear bullshit about this.

Why does Agoo have more votes combined than the other poll? Not my problem, I don't know or care how this works.

I had the most posts in the drafting thread where I was constantly being attacked then defending, and got the most attention obviously. I have modern players and agoo should have retorted in our little matchup. Not everyone cares about mystique and points per game like you.

 

yes because a few 'modern' stats that one guy on ESPN and a few stats nerds love to use to justify the worth of modern players is SOOO valued and used.

give me a fucking break. How about watching a few games?? stats are a nice tool to support your arguement, but actually watching the games and seeing players play??? irreplaceable.

you still never really gave a plausible reason for having 5 times as many votes in one match up over the other.. why the fuck not vote in both poles???

thinking that's not suspicious is naive.

 

oh and ask DW, I told him at the beginning of this all-era draft 'someone with a bunch of modern era players will win this because ppl don't know the history of the game and forums are generally full of younger ppl' Younger ppl tend to believe everything in their era is the best (I was like that too) so I guess I really shouldn't be surprised. I enjoyed the draft process.

 

I'd say intelligent use of empirical support is irreplaceable. You yourself used it when comparing John Stockton's production against Gary Payton. I talk about everything when comparing players, you just like to ignore pace; and I already addressed your other concerns I guess you didn't take the time to read my previous post to its full extent.

 

That's one possibility, another is that people look at flawed Volume stats, then base their opinions off that, vague intangibles, etc. , when drafting and that might hurt them in a thread where they have to defend their selections.

 

it's all about context. The players chosen from the 50's, 60's and 70's were great in their era at their pace, regardless if it was different from today. Is Chris Paul on of the 5 best PG's of his era? No his era is 3 years old. Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Allen Iverson are the top PG's of this decade.
Gary Payton is on of the 3 best PG's from the 90's and has accomplished much more than Paul.

Is Wilt the best or 2nd best player ever? Yes, depending on preference. According to you the best player ever would have the best PER.. that shows how efficient a player was, but it doesn't show other characteristics, like the ability to lead and motivate a team (ask Paul Pierce how important is was to have someone like KG on the team being an emotional leader) or to make clutch plays in a tight game, or to be able to get a basket when the other team is on a run. You have to watch the games to see how a player gets his stats.

You always disregard the intangibles but this is not a bunch of robots playing the game, there are guys like KG who you don't want having the ball with the game on the line, yet his stats are much more impressive than say Reggie Miller, but Reggie has ice in his veins and wanted to be the guy taking the shot with the game on the line and more often than not he delivered.

And this TS stat.. reggie's TS is .614, but his career FG% is 47% and his 3pt is 39.5% good not great numbers. But because his freaking FT% is 88.8% it inflates his TS percentage to make it a very high number which is misleading. Thus the limited value of such a stat.

I don't see it being a huge issue having to defend the choice of older players vs a modern stat that is skewed with a bias to favor the modern player.

 

I'm gonna be honest, all of this or at least most of us, did this draft to make a team with the players in the history of the NBA. I mean it was kinda to just see how much people knew and we could talk about dream teams and stuff, just for fun really. My problems with the voting for now, is I don't like how people come in to vote in one poll and not the other. And I'm not picking a side, but it DOES look suspicious if you took an unbiased look at this.

Now on the actual draft and the teams. It does kinda suck for some of us who did this draft (Like me) so that I could draft players I couldn't in something like the GM Draft. People like Jordan and Pippen and whatnot. We can argue so many things: pace, defense, era, everything. But what it comes down to is breaking down skillsets and matching the talent, I don't see the difficulty of that. You can argue that modern players will play like monsters in a fast paced league like the old days, but that doesn't factor the defense you are still going to have to face, and the distribution of the ball. That's just some aspects that can be covered.

The point is for everyone to come together and provide EACH of those POVs.

 

Oh and to be clear, Me and CF did talk almost every night just to chit chat about the draft. And he did say what he said.

And btw CF, we might need you in the ESPN draft if you still wanna join.

 

so because you posted a few more times.. ppl are voting for you?? does that make any sense??
and if sooo many ppl agreed with you, how come not a single person posted in agreement with your assessment of David Robinson??

I'm not buying into that at all.

you never really put up any proof of your pace findings.. just a 'take my word for it' so I choose not to put much value into it at all.

 

Hey if we are basing this on how much we post, can I give myself some free points for starting all these threads

I need them

 

Uh this is what I'm talking about... TS% being inflated? Huh? I don't think you understood me on that point. Yes FTs matter, that's why Hack-A-Shaq exists... And no I don't disregard all intangibles, I simply feel you didn't make your case in certain circumstances and the media/public has a tendency to hype up that kind of nonsense. TS% isn't skewed towards anyone... Neither is PER. What happened was people got caught up and drafted people who didn't deserve it imo, plus the fact that whether PER is legit or not (it generally gives one a great indication of offensive value, hell you could say it favors worthless scoring therby giving the edge to players like Baylor), pace has always been part of my verbal flourishes.

You simply value different things than I do, just like when you defended AI over Chris Paul, who I think has nothing over CP3 at the PG position.

 

So why didn't people who vote for Agoo all vote in DW's poll? Yeah I have been getting more attention than anyone else and my threads have been bumped plenty of times. Plus I told you from the beginning that drafting "modern" players would always catch the attention of the public. My job was then to defend my picks in the selection threads.

What did you ever prove about Robinson? All you said was he sucks, take my word for it. Plenty of people agree with me, you can find plenty of articles comparing him and Shaq for example. Not posting in one specific thread proves nothing.

I provided plenty of proof, you're insane (no offense) if you think 7500-8000 shots a season is normal. And I went into more detail in the selection threads.

 

Well from the start people were less interested in certain polls, that's not really my fault or problem. And I never intended to draft just modern players until I kept seeing them slip. At that point I felt they were great value for the position I acquired them.

 

I thought I hinted at it pretty strongly, but you said it.

If the winner of the all-era draft has one current hall of fame player, that will be ridiculous.

 

that's not what I said. I said he was soft and didn't deliver in the clutch and shied away from taking over games when they were tight.. Kinda like KG, he needed someone else to carry the team in the cruch.
2-4 other ppl agreed with this.

you have NEVER fessed up to having not seen Robinson play in the early 90's and thus rely on stats, which don't show HOW HE GOT HIS NUMBERS.

I never once implied that Wilt would have the same numbers today that he had in the 60s'.. I did say he'd still be the best center in the league easily and most likely the best player too.

You never took into account the change in rules (like no hand checking) that favor today's players or took into account the difference in training, nutrition and travel and accomodations that todays players benefit from and would significantly help the players from the 60's.

Hell in the article I posteb about Baylor, he played on the weekends and was in the military from Monday-Friday and still averaged 35 ppg and 15 rpg!! pace or not pace, that's just absurd how hard that would be to accomplish. Playing back to back games, most times taking a bus or train for nearby games or flying. If Elgin had the opportunities of today, he'd still be a talented star and one of the greatest players ever.

 

so ppl are coming in here, seeing 2 polls and only voting for one because you posted more??? umm yeah, right.