Exclusive All Things Brandon Miller

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by HailBlazers, May 17, 2023.

  1. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    he never did....MM has been pretty anti-Dame for quite a while now
     
  2. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    Good rundown on his strengths and weaknesses.

     
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  3. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    MOST teams don’t win with a ball dominant undersized pg that doesn’t play defense. Dame is incredible, and I think it’s hard to argue that he isn’t the best Trailblazer of all time. BUT,,,,he’s also going to be 33 when the season starts and wants to win now. We don’t have the assets for that because in order to win non, Dame can’t be the best player on the team IMO. It’s also certainly not his fault that Olshey failed him for half of a decade. But for him to want to mortgage our future and STILL not have the pieces to make him happy, is going to backfire
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2023
  4. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

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    Of course. All Portland has to do to compete next year is add an all time great Big in their prime. Or if they could just add 2 or more better then average frontcourt starters without losing anything, that might work too. Work your magic Joe!

    On a serious note, I think Portland's best shot (albeit a long one) at having another great on the team is for Shaedon to do a Neo-morph and ascend ahead of hopes. Probably more likely is that never happens and he tops off at a Jason Richardson level, which is still a hell of a floor.

    STOMP
     
  5. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    This is very well-reasoned and well-said. It's hard to disagree with any of it if someone's viewing it impassionately.

    I think what happens is a lot of people have -- understandably -- become so tied to Dame that they have trouble being honest with themselves about how the few shortcomings he has dictate the idiosyncrasies of the Blazer roster. They also think we have to do what Dame seems to be alluding to and what the national press has taken and run with.

    Disagreeing with the take that there's a trade available to the Blazers that has a bigger chance to vault them into contention than to sent the organization into a death spiral in Dame's final years isn't an indictment of Dame. It's an honest critique of what the team needs to do to be as good as the other teams that won at least one playoff series this year and who out there can bridge that gap without being a total desperation move in the landscape of the Western Conference.

    Also, as others have pointed out, Dame said what he preferred. A lot of us are presuming Dame is "do this or else" because, quite honestly, the pundits have fed that to us just like they fed the "Dame wants a trade" nonsense in the past. There's a lot of room in between, Dame generally moves difference, and we have no idea how open he is to nuance and other approaches. For instance, if Cronin goes to Dame and says the Raptors have offered Siakam but it's pretty clear the trade wouldn't do enough and would leave the organization with less resources with which to make the other move or moves that need done, how open would Dame be toward, "you know, let's draft Brandon Miller and keep looking for other ways to get better."
     
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  6. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    My biggest worry is the gun issue. I know, he's not a suspect, till he is. Then you're looking at world upside down. Only he & the murderer knows what really happened. He could be totally innocent, and the bad guy says he is involved for some damn reason. It would be foolish to think it's totally over till it is. That worries me. I think he looks head and shoulders over Amen. Amen looks like a developmental prospect due to his lack of shooting prowess. I hope there's nothing to it. Really do, cause the kid is super skilled. I hope the Hornets draft him and he's a future all star. Then the Blazers can get a haul for Scoot.
     
  7. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    Agreed...with or without Dame. So why not get the assets from Dame to have a better shot at it later rather than trading future assets and young players out for a run at higher mediocrity? I find it overly optimistic at best that suddenly we are going to built a legit contender in the next 2 years when we haven't been close in the first 11 of Dame's era? The closest may have been his first playoffs when he was on a rookie contract. That can not be duplicated with his salary now.

    It would be sad to see Dame go but hopefully he would have a better shot somewhere else like Clyde got and eventually Walton got another as well. Kersey got a ring when he moved on. Porter had a chance. The assets we would get provide no guarantee, but IMO, we would be a lot closer with what we would get than what we would lose in trying to chase an emotionally driven fantasy.
     
  8. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    I find it hard to believe adding an All NBA talent like Pascal Siakam wouldn't seriously help this roster going forward. Look, Joe ain't stupid. He's not going to trade the farm for him. But then again, If Toronto is even fielding a trade offer then they want to move on. And a so-called franchise player like Scoot could be a huge addition to make Toronto move on. That 3 rd pick has huge value. But even just adding Siakam to a starting lineup of Dame, Grant, Nurk & Sharpe has incredible potential. There are no superteams. That's a contending starting lineup IMO. The Blazers can add bench help as well with their flexibility and future draft capital. Some in here act like once Siakam drinks the local water he'll turn into a pumpkin. Yet Miller or Scoot, both unproven are on their way to being all world. I say BUNK!
     
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  9. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    Whether you find it hard to believe or not, it might be the case, and I think maybe instead of discarding the possibility of out of hand, you'd be better served to be open to that before seriously discussing it.

    This has been mentioned elsewhere: trades for all-stars don't work out as often or as well as we've been conditioned to believe. Durant didn't make the Suns a conference finalist. Paul George hasn't gotten the Clippers to the finals. Gobert didn't make the Wolves contenders, etc., etc. There's also the matter of what you have to give up to get these guys.

    Also, depending on who you talk to about Joe, he might be stupid, he might be cowed by Dame's demands, or, heck, he might not even be the one calling the shots.

    Anyway, I think you're looking at the issue with several biases that are going to cloud your judgment and make a rational discussion with you next to impossible because you are going to cling to them as your foundation when they aren't even proven to be true on their own. I know that's condescending, but I don't have a better way of wording it, so I'll leave it at that.
     
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  10. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    What did KG do in Boston? Phoenix lost their best defender in Bridges, and gave up on another good defender in Crowder. I don't buy Durant as any all world defender. Siakam CAN defend. Crowder would be a nice addition to bench. His days of making 20 mil, are past.
     
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  11. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    I find it wild how one & doner Brandon Miller is the next coming, but All NBA Pascal Siakam is chopped liver. Give me the guy i know can play and be dominant at the NBA level. And not saying Miller won't be , potentially , a great player. But i want proven now to join our generational talent . There will be more potential great one & doners in the future.
     
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  12. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    Now you're rambling and rationalizing. You're looking at a few arguments that support your POV but not the overall picture. You had a conclusion and you're going to use anything you can to fit that reality, but that reality's a myth.

    As I said, it's going to be hard to have any kind of productive conversation with you on this topping. You WANT it to be a certain way, and you'll spin things or ignore things that expose the problems with it.

    Please don't quote me about this anymore, because I'll feel more compelled to reply but it's kind of like arguing about the Bermuda Triangle. You're picking and choosing facts to support a false narrative and having a hard time leaving your emotions out of it.
     
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  13. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    C'mon, you're saying you're rational and i'm not. Why, because i want a proven player over a unproven kid. Or you can say that Durant or Paul George hasn't panned out yet, but i show you a player that has, and that's an irrational take. Whatever.
     
  14. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    And your post was the most emotional. You just attacked me. I never attacked you. Punk move.
     
  15. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    A better way of explaining this is you are coming at it from the position of absolutes, but the absolutes are your opinion and cannot be proven.

    No one said your idea can't work, only that it's likelihood isn't all that high. However, for you, every time it did work it's a confirmation of your desired conclusion, even if that conclusion happens 1 out of 10 times or is decades old. And, conversely, every time your desired outcome didn't happen, it was a result of some particular other factor, factors that always are at play but they only stick out to you in these cases because excuses are needed to explain why the deal for the vet didn't have the desired outcome.

    I beg your pardon for having to quote you again on this, but I figured out the way I wanted to word my response after I'd already sent the previous one.
     
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  16. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    yes...that's generally been repeated over and over and over in this forum over the last 15 months or so.

    and yes, Dame has said some things since the season ended. But he never said what you just claimed he said. OK?

    **************************************************************************************************

    * "Dame can’t be the best player on the team IMO"....ok, but what does that even mean? Does it mean 'he can't be the best player so let's trade him then go find a better one'? Sure looks like it but how probable is that? Portland drafted Clyde, who is the last player Portland added that was close to Dame's level. They drafted him in 1983. 29 years later, Portland drafted Dame. Essentially it took 3 decades for the Blazers to add a player as good or better than Clyde. 3 decades. And I have yet to see any reasonable explanation from the trade-Dame people just how trading Dame is going to allow Portland to draft the next Clyde or the next Dame (except for one). But more than that is that just having one player on that level isn't enough. Clyde was surrounded by much more talent on his rosters than Dame ever has and he didn't win a championship in Portland. It wasn't till he was Hakeem's sidekick that happened.

    so then, in order to legitimately contend, Portland would have to go out and find two players as good as Dame. But they'd apparently have to be the right kind of players. No 6'2 PG's like Dame (or Scoot). If it took 29 years between having a player on Dame/Clyde level, how long will it take to find two?

    there would be only one realistic way if it started with trading Dame, and I've said this several times: Trade Dame for the best draft capital you can. If decent veteran players are part of the return, trade them for more draft capital. At the same time, trade Simons and Nurkic and maybe Grant in a S&T for more draft capital. No more holding on to expensive low-level role players like they are perennial all-stars. NO MORE FUCKING STUPID FENCE-STRADDLING! Portland would have to go full tank for 2-3 more years, maybe 4-5. Get more of those top-6 lottery picks. That's the only path that would make sense
     
  17. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    I appreciate that. It may not work, but i think it's worth the try. I'm just saying there will be more one & doners that come down the line to rebuild with. Dame is a very special "proven" talent that doesn't come along very often. I just want to add proven talent to at least give it a shot of working. There's plenty of time in the future to go the other way. If there's not a future, then it's all moot point because we won't be here anyways.
     
  18. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    And the rebuild could potentially take a decade or more. See OKC. 7 years and counting. Getting better, but no guaranty's.
     
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  19. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    Siakam is certainly not chopped liver, but for as good as he supposedly is, combined with the RoY from the previous year, an NBA All-Defensive team member, and PG left over from the title run, they were exactly .500 and the #10 seed in the East. Dame had his best year ever, with the best PF he's had since Aldrige, a 20 ppg SG, at least an average center, and we were so bad we ended up tanking. I'm not sure that taking the best players from both teams that were well below average, while shipping other assets out, is getting us anywhere near where we want to go and it will hurt the franchise long term.
     
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  20. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    you're making a pretty big assumption there...that being that Portland will trade "future assets and young players". And that's what Dame wants Portland to do. That seems to have been the assumption by a lot of people here

    well, we have substantial reporting now that Portland had an opportunity to do that a year ago using the 7th pick as leverage for OG. But Toronto was asking for more. The Blazers turned it down and Dame thought Toronto's ask was ridiculous.

    and we've 'heard' escalating rumors right now that the Blazers are VERY reluctant to trade the 3rd pick. Sure, this could be negotiating 101. But I think there might be some paranoia in this forum about just how much of the Blazers future the Blazer front office is willing to mortgage. I don't think they are nearly as willing as many of you fear. Or, another way to put it is they probably aren't as stupid as many of you believe.

    Portland won't trade Sharpe. No chance, IMO. They may trade Ant and at 24 he's kind of young, but you have to imagine long-shot-upside for him to see him as a future-mortgage loss. And they may trade the 3rd pick. I doubt they will move any further into their future asset ledger. Not for the players that appear to be maybe available
     
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