All things Jalen Duren

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Portland needs, Duren, in their mock
Best available, Sharpe, in their mock

 

Noel tore the ACL of his left knee in the middle of his lone year in college. Recovery didn't go as planned and he missed his entire rookie year. The same knee required surgery again in 2016. He's battled inflammation of that knee ever since which has certainly limited his ability to work out/practice and the amount weight he could carry on the court... in other words, his knee obviously hampered his development and career. This past season he played in all of 25 games, the reason repeatedly sited... his knee. It's ridiculous to claim that a guy's career arc wasn't affected when he has missed 40% of the games over the course of his pro career. He's been damaged goods the entire time. Dude hasn't averaged 25 MPG any season since 2o16 and has started less then 30% of those games he's been able to go in. Conversely, Duren has no physical dings that I'm aware of. Terrible comparison... not buying what you're selling.

At 18 Duren reportedly weighs about 50 pounds more then Noel did when he was 19. These are two different body types. Generally for playing inside it helps to have the bulk to bang with the big boys. Of course it also helps not to have a bad wheel, especially if you're trying to play at a bigger weight. To answer your other questions (which you could look up yourself) Ant weighed 183 at the combine and is listed at 181 today. Giannis didn't do his combine but was listed at 190 lbs. Today, blessed with a career of relative health and not having suffered structural damage to his knees, he's listed at 243. Again, for playing inside where Noel has toiled and Duren is projected, it helps to have bulk to battle other Bigs for boards. Jalen has the prerequisite bulk, Noel never did.

Klay and Brown are SGs and have been SGs their entire time in the league. They weighed significantly more then Daniels when they came into the league and still do today. To say that Daniels is bigger then them is silly. Of course Brown came into the league as a physical freak while Klay already had his deadly jumper, DD has neither attribute. Klay & Brown are both smaller then the SFs they've played next to. Yes they could play SF but they could also play center and give up even more size. They don't because like Dyson, their size is that of an NBA 2 guard.

Today Dyson weighs as much as NBA PGs and his jumper is not good. I like him, but would expect it to take at least a year or two before he's a regular... in other words he's a project. Given health, Doug Christie seems an optimistic comparison of what he could become.

STOMP

 

“The Blazers are in the beginning stages of a rebuild and have a void at center. Often-injured Jusuf Nurkic is entering unrestricted free agency this summer and will demand a hefty payday that will take him into his 30s. Picking his successor in Duren -- perhaps the most physically gifted big man in this class, and who brings impressive finishing prowess as well as outstanding potential as both a rim-protector and a pick-and-roll defender -- makes sense. As the youngest player in this class, he has considerable upside to grow into long-term.

If Portland wants to take a true swing on talent, drafting Sharpe, who possesses elite physical tools with his exceptional frame, length and explosiveness, to go along with dynamic perimeter-shooting ability, has the potential to reap huge dividends down the road. There was a reason Sharpe was the No. 1-ranked player in his high school class, as he has the kind of scoring instinct many teams look for in a top offensive option and plays a position every franchise looks for talent at.“

 

Here's Hollinger on Duren:

 

Hmm. It's not exactly a reassuring response to "he's a one-position player" to say "oh no, he's much shorter!"

 

I dont think hes as light on his feet to defend the quicker 4s of today's nba.

 

Looney and Robert Williams are both about 6'8 barefoot with big wingspans. Piecemealing what we have on Duren, he's taller longer and heavier then either of the starting 5s in the finals. Next comment from the peanut gallery will be is he too big?

Thats part of the beauty of having a versatile Big defender... they can fit with a variety of other players.

STOMP

 

If we trade down say the trade OKC goes down and we get 12 then I say there going to target Duran. By they doing this there saying Duran is not worth taking at 7. Something to pay attention to.

 

Knee injuries stopped Noel from learning how to shoot or dribble? Those are some of the few skills you can work on during rehab. Noel didn't have the necessary skill. That has nothing to do with his injuries. He didn't end up unable to shoot because of a knee injury. Also, I never compared their weight. I'm talking about projected skillset verse what they showed before the league. You keep nitpicking parts of this comparison that I never brought up. I'll make sure never to compare any players around since you could nitpick differences with any comparison. Never said he was exactly like Noel, and there are a lot of other comparisons of bigs that showed flashes of skill that people thought they'd be able to fulfill and they didn't. But you're so focused on arguing about Noel's knee that you're missing the entire point.

You still don't realize that you can gain weight? You realize theirs players that are skinnier than Jaylen Brown and Klay Thompson that play a forward spot, right? You also realize you can gain weight, right??? Where in the world did I say Daniels weighed more then them? He has more length than them. That's the most important physical attribute when trying to determining positions. Weight is secondary.

Also, weight doesn't equal strength. If Dyson Daniels was fatter, you'd be happier with him as a prospect? If he was fatter, then would he be able to play the 3? Better get him on the Glen Davis diet then since a weight room can't do anything... Saying someone can't be a 3 in the NBA because they weigh 195 pounds coming into the league is so silly to me. He has one of the lowest body fat percentages in the draft class. Too bad he didn't eat more burgers the past couple of years, then he could be a small forward.

 

He's not anywhere near the perimeter defender that Vanderbilt is and Harrell doesn't really play the 4 and struggles in the playoffs even when he's playing the 5. And even then, he's still a backup.

 

to be fair, Noel raised his FT% about 10% over the course of his career. But no, when you're rehabbing you're not practicing your skills let alone playing. Good grief, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has had their knees scoped and my procedures went well. You certainly aren't jumping up and down on the court practicing your J if your knee is continually swelling up throughout your career. Without a doubt his knee injuries curtailed his career. I'm not nitpicking, I'm pointing at the obvious gaping holes in your nonsensical comparison that an 18 year old physical specimen brimming with potential is somehow comparable to a guy who rode a stationary bike for most of his career.

It somehow gets even more ridiculous. Scoring Guard Jaylen Brown came into the league at 223 pounds & 5% body fat. Scoring Guard Klay Thompson came into the league at 206 pounds & 8% body fat. Dyson Daniels just measured 190 pounds & 5% body fat. None of them are or were fat, they have different frames. The two All Star Scoring Guards are stockier (both now listed at 220) then Dyson which typically equates to being stronger. It certainly helps to have some ballast/extra muscle mass if you're trying to slow down bigger players. If I'm putting together a team, I want my SG to be able to guard 1-3, my SF 2-4, my PF 3-5. If my SF is 190 pounds, thats an area of concern for the above stated reasons. At 19, Dyson's body is still changing but NBA Wings typically don't put on 20 pounds during their career. Maybe he'll be the exception, but at this point he's Scoring Guard sized. Yes he could play other positions, but body type wise thats where he best projects guarding guys in the near future. I don't even get why this is contentious. In today's positionless game, all I'm contending is that while I want switchable defenders, I don't want a 190 lb Daniels trying to guard PFs on the regular yet somehow those are fighting words for you. Good grief man.

STOMP

 

When it come to Daniels, it doesn’t even matter how much he weighs. He got the length and the IQ to play really good defense. In todays nba, the 4 play on the perimeter a lot more. Daniels just have to stay in front of them, which he does pretty well. In todays nba they don’t take advantage of smaller player as much as they should. Even then Daniels know what he’s doing

 

You're making my point with a good size comparison too. Here's a highlight tape where Bowen goes up against wings Vince Carter, Josh Howard, Michael Finley, Ray Allen, Wally Szczerbiak & Carmelo



Bowen was great at defending 1-3, on offense he was very limited though. Again, I like Dyson and would be happy if they added him though his jumper is a real concern. However, thinking that he's going to be a SF means he'd be switching onto Bigs. IMO size wise the best place for him to find initial success in the league is at SG where he would be matched up against PGs-SFs on D. He'd be nice at the top of a zone harrassing ball handlers with his length and quickness, much less so along the baseline contesting drives to the hoop where his lack of bulk and hops would limit his effectiveness. Again, I want my SF to be able to switch onto Bigs on D. I'm fine with anyone taking issue with that.

STOMP

 

I've seen Duren drop in mock drafts this morning to 17 & 18. I wonder if teams he's worked out with have been unimpressed? To go from top 5 to out of the lottery something had to have happened. I also wonder if there's an injury teams are finding out about... <shrug>

 

The first noel, the angels did say...

 

Duren is a stud on D. A big who can move and has some motor. Not only is his shot not broken, he looks like a guy with aggression near the hoop … unusual for recent Blazers players. I wouldn’t mind that. The Blazer back-ups who played this year just look lesser than Duren.

Daniels at 6’6” / 6’7.5” in shoes with wingspan / noted for defense, floaters in the paint, use of both hands going both directions, passing, bball IQ, multi-skilled, positional diversity …. Yes, he defends 1-3 … looks like he loves the game.

Murray is noted for having a fairly complete game for a draftee … high floor … Daniels IMHO is the next guy in line for that distinction. His frame looks good to put on strength. I see a core player of a Blazers’ starting line-up by year 3 with immediate contributions.

If the Blazers get either one at 7, then this draft is for me. If they can trade up to 5 and get Grant in the deal, (for Murray or in trade for OG), then any complaints I had about the returns from the deadline trades are gone.

[Murray > Daniels > Sharpe > Duren > Sochan > Dieng]