<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When he penetrates ,it shows hes not scared he draws fouls when he gets in the paint to so actually its not stupid, but he is putting his body in a risk to get pounded. Also your saying AI doesnt pass out of a double team how many Sixers games have you watched?I think he may get a little selfish but he also averaged almost 7 assist a game.He also averaged 6.8apg thats the same as Jay Willams more than Steve Francis more than Chauncey Billups amd more than Andre Miller;he doesnt evemn play point guard so you cant question his passing in my opinion. Another thing is Stockton played pg AI doesnt,so that is an off compaison.</div> Just to play devil's advocate here, actually you can because if a player dominates the ball as much as AI does they're bound to rack up some assists, and AI is not a bad passer he's a good one, but he's assists aren't neccesarily due to great passing but more to the fact that he has the ball a lot. Like I question Tmac's passing ability also at times because if he get's so many touches he better be getting some dimes. He is right to an extent, driving into the big bodies is stupid, <u>if</u> you're not going to do the neccesary things to maintain your body and prevent injuries. Which is what he kind of does, if he maintained himself bettter he would prevent a lot more injuries, and let's say he worked on his shot like someone like Michael Redd did (not that much but at least a little more), when he got in the lane he could always just pull up for a short jumper and stroke it instead of going to the line and hurting himself, and also not being that good a FT shooter for the amount of his game that depends on the line, and because his FG isn't too high in the first place he needs to make as many FT's as possible. This is the same situation with Jerry Stackhouse, even though he's a better FT shooter, but he's just garbage, his 29 ppg year was just because he shot too much. The guys also can't rebound, and at least Iverson has good team defense and can pick passing lanes, Stack's defense isn't there, and he's a <u>horrible</u> rebounder for a 6'6 G-F.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllBoutDaPacers:</div><div class="quote_post">Other than steals and assists, I do not see what everyone thinks is so great about Allen Iverson. This year, he shot 38.7 % from the field on over 23 shots per game. If any non ?star? shot that poorly and took that many shots, they would be on the bench. I can understand that someone needs to take it upon themselves to put their team over the top, but you need to be a better shooter. He needs to pass the ball. Yes he averages over 6 assists per game, but think if he passed instead of taking stupid shots. You can run into crowds of tall people and try to make lay-ups that go in by sheer luck but how does that help your team? The NBA isn?t about making SportsCenter. Even though he gets 9.5 free throw attempts per game, if you only shoot 74.5% from the line it doesn?t matter. The only way you could make a case to attempt that stupidity is if you shoot better than 90% at the line. But still, that just means you would be hurt all of the time like Iverson. Allen Iverson also showed that he cares more about himself than his team when he refused to come off of the bench because he felt it was below him. The last time I checked, basketball was a team sport, would it really hurt to come off of the bench when the coach asks? Even Jordan came off the bench during his career, and I doubt he cried like a baby when it happened. The thing that is going to be disturbing to me is how somebody is going to disprove the facts I have presented and say Iverson is a good shooter, or he is a team player. But please, let me have a good laugh.</div> where is the sleeping smilie??? i think all ai-fans have heard all that a million times... can't speak for the others but im tired of explaining. i will just say one thing: real recognizes real!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting lazygun:</div><div class="quote_post">where is the sleeping smilie??? i think all ai-fans have heard all that a million times... can't speak for the others but im tired of explaining. i will just say one thing: real recognizes real!</div> I was going to respond to what you said, and try to explain the truth to you, but the garbage you wrote is an insult to knowledge in general. You are the type of person who is too hard headed to actually listen to reason, or to read the whole thread. That's real.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllBoutDaPacers:</div><div class="quote_post">Michael Jordan also was an old man who couldn't jump in Washington. Iverson isn't even thirty. Call it a bad season, but take his career numbers. They don't seem that great to me. I was taught that in basketball if you were double-teamed you have a teammate open and you should pass them the ball. Obviously that isn't the case because Iverson tries to do everything by himself. Think about how good he would be if he passed to those open teammates. Stockton was an excellent player because he had control over his emotions in games and didn't try to do everything himself. He passed for an average of 10.5 apg over his career and shot over 50%. Iverson could acheive that level of greatness, but he needs to give the ball up and trust his teammates. Contrary to popular belief, ppg is not everything, and field goal percentage is more valuable. Running into a crowd of shotblockers on a regular basis does not show that you have heart, it shows that you are stupid.</div>AI's "off season" was a career year for most guys in the league, that speaks volumes all by itself. AI got almost 7 assists per game this year, if im not mistaking, that's the best of all sg's in the league and better than alot of pg's too. He doesn't run into a crowd of shotblockers, he challenges them, and since they can't handle the challenge they foul and hack him. A lesser man would avoid that, he goes heads up everytime cause he's not scared. Stop hatin'
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllBoutDaPacers:</div><div class="quote_post">I was going to respond to what you said, and try to explain the truth to you, but the garbage you wrote is an insult to knowledge in general. You are the type of person who is too hard headed to actually listen to reason, or to read the whole thread. That's real.</div> u seem to know me pretty well! i tell u what: u dont know a **** bout me, and i think u don't know a lot about ai too. 1. i didn't offended u at all, i expect same on ur side 2. i listen to everything said to me. 3. just because some of the things u wrote was true, it doesnt mean its new to me or most ai-fans 4. i know of several flaws in ai's game, as i wrote im just tired of explaining (but: show me a player of iversons size, that is as good as he is) 5. i expect u to "explain me the truth"
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i'm not questioning his other accomplishments but just because he's the shortest player to win the MVP or the shortest player to win the scoring title doesn't mean much...the accomplishments themselves - winning the MVP, scoring title is what matters</div> I disagree. Being the shortest player to win the MVP is something he should get some recognition for. At his size and lack of power, he clearly has a disadvantage against the other players. Although he uses his speed to get by defenders, that all he has basically. So saying that it doesn’t mean much doesn’t make much sense to me. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What's give lol, I'm just wondering what the number is?</div> Oops. Carmelo15 just gave you the answer. Sorry. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Michael Jordan also was an old man who couldn't jump in Washington. Iverson isn't even thirty. Call it a bad season, but take his career numbers. They don't seem that great to me.</div> Doesn’t look good to you. But it is good enough to make him a HOF. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I was taught that in basketball if you were double-teamed you have a teammate open and you should pass them the ball. Obviously that isn't the case because Iverson tries to do everything by himself.</div> Your making it sound like it a easy thing to do. Passing while your getting double team isn’t easy especially if your undersized. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Think about how good he would be if he passed to those open teammates</div> When your getting double-teamed you don’t always necessarily have a teammate open. First of all when you’re double-teamed it’s hard enough to even make a pass, especially when they have you trapped on the baseline or in the corner. Next you have to find the teammate, and then he has to finish. Come on if Allen Iverson could get always get some assists off of double teams he would be easily averaging 10 assists. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Stockton was an excellent player because he had control over his emotions in games and didn't try to do everything himself. </div> John Stockton was a PG and Allen Iverson is a SG. Secondly, John Stockton had Karl Malone. Therefore he wouldn’t have to force anything. And finally Allen Iverson is not John Stockton, and they both play completely opposite games. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He passed for an average of 10.5 apg over his career and shot over 50%</div> But look how many points he averaged compared to Allen Iverson. 13 Points compared to 27 Points is over a 10-point differential. I highly doubt John Stockton would even average 10 assist if he were dropping 25 Points every night. So comparing a player like John Stockton and Allen Iverson doesn’t make much sense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Contrary to popular belief, ppg is not everything, and field goal percentage is more valuable.</div> But he makes up for some of those misses at the FT line. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Running into a crowd of shotblockers on a regular basis does not show that you have heart, it shows that you are stupid.</div> How is drawing fouls stupid. Please tell me. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think it's due to the fact, he does so much whilst being undersized and underpowered. No one can match his heart or effort, his injuries and what he does show this. Even if he wouldn't pull it off, he'd still be willing to try where others wouldn't dare go. This being him driving up and fighting against the best, the baddest and the biggest of them.</div> Nicely said. There are not a lot of players, at his size that hasn’t done or yet do what he's done in his 7-year career. Isiah Thomas is constantly praising Allen Iverson for what he's done and what he still does today. From one of the greatest little man to say that he actually sees himself in Allen Iverson shows how great Allen Iverson really is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Any time you average over 23 shots per game, you don't pass enough, expecially if you shoot under 40%. I have acknowledged that he can dish out assists, but if he passed even more he would be a good player.</div> Under 40%, so that must mean your talking about this season. In that case he averaged 6.8 APG, which is, number 1 among SG's and better than some of the leagues best PG. And doing this while missing numerous games. So saying that he's not passing the ball is out of the picture. And yet again why are you constantly bringing up this season? He's not going to average his career numbers or better for every season in his career. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I have acknowledged that he can dish out assists, but if he passed even more he would be a good player.</div> Good player? First he's not great, but now he's not even good? And to say you were waiting for that one person to give you that good laugh, well you given me one too many. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Iverson patterned his game after Stockton he would be a winner too. His teammates have the ability to score, he is just too greedy to let them do just that. 6.8 assists means nothing if you take 23 shots. If he took 15 shots per game and passed the rest of the time, he could average 11 or 12 assists per game and shoot a decent percentage. Is that too much to ask for?</div> When your teammates can't deliver. And you’re a proven scorer why, not take the shots. But this season he averaged 6.8 Assists, which shows he is heading in the right direction.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But he makes up for some of those misses at the FT line</div> No really he doesn't because he doesn't shoot that high a percentage from the line , he would make it up from the line if he shot like 85% + from the charity stripe. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">AI got almost 7 assists per game this year, if im not mistaking, that's the best of all sg's in the league and better than alot of pg's too.</div> Remember he played 42.5 minutes a game, he is best in all SG's, but he has the ball most compare to all shooting guards, but per 48 minutes the only PG's he beats are Mike Bibby, but the offense in Sacramento is run through Divac and Miller, and Steve Francis, Gilbert Arenas, and Dwayne Wade he shares PG duties though, oh and Jason Terry. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When your teammates can't deliver. And you?re a proven scorer why, not take the shots. But this season he averaged 6.8 Assists, which shows he is heading in the right direction.</div> Heyyy, don't hate on the teammates, they showed the could ball when he got injured and they played good, especially KT <font size="1">(and Dalmbert of course)</font> but I already knew he could ball.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No really he doesn't because he doesn't shoot that high a percentage from the line , he would make it up from the line if he shot like 85% + from the charity stripe.</div> That’s true. But it’s not just the fact, that he's making or missing the FT's he gets players in foul trouble. That also plays a big part. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Heyyy, don't hate on the teammates, they showed the could ball when he got injured and they played good, especially KT (and Dalmbert of course) but I already knew he could ball.</div> Yeah, they have proven that they could be good scorers. And he actually trusted them a lot more, that’s why his APG went up. But when you’re a 25+ scorer, its just natural that you take the amount of shots that you've been taken for your whole career. So you can’t really blame him for that.
Iverson Rulz Iverson is one the best players in the game. He only shot 38% from the field this season because he was injured. If Iverson is a bad player why is he in the East All Star team and Olympic Athens team. Iverson Rulz.
With Allen taking a beating lately in the media and from fans of all sports I decided I would make this thread. To hear everyones opinons on him, and his playing ability. Please cover anything on your mind, but also provide actual valid points.
I'm not a Philadelphia fan, and I never have been, but I think that AI is really getting a bad wrap here when he really doesn't deserve one. I think that in today's NBA, any team would be lucky to have a player like AI, not because of stats but because of the guy's attitude. This is a guy that is set on winning and wants to spend his entire career in one town: Philadelphia. He has never said anything about winning and doesn't want to leave the Sixers in favor of another place where it will/might be easier to win like certain players (T-Mac immediately comes to mind). His loyalty alone makes him the best thing that could happen to the Sixers. As far as his stats dropping, I didn't see him significantly decline this season at all and he always seems to light up the Magic . He contended for the scoring title and the Sixers would have made the playoffs had they had some other players to help him out. All I can say is that Philly is lucky to have him and I would love to see him finish his career in Philly although it will be a long time before he thinks about retirement. If the Sixers get rid of him, they're idiots since he's done more for the team than anyone else.
This season it started with him not wanting to sit on the bench, that's when all the haters put down their Haterade, and had something to say about him finally. Allen this, Allen that, trade him, he's a cancer, he's this, he's that. What people don't see is that he is truly a good player, a top 10 player IMO. As with anything in this country, a person's personal problems, are mixed in with his professional ones, ask Bill Clinton. Though Iverson played a career low games this season, he still showed up for games performing to his fullest ability that he could. His court troubles livened up people so that they could talk trash about them, even during the 76ers Finals run, the haters were talking about his court troubles, and his tatoos, and his thug image, and this, and that. If they could just set those things aside, and focus on his job, they would see that he does a damn fine one. Year after year Allen Iverson is the player with most minutes, most steals, most points, and this year upped his assist average in order to help his team win. Yes, he is getting older, and yes he will acquire countless more injuries but to bag him because his body is taking a toll is retarted. One thing I did notice is that the 76ers own fans (even here at JBB) turned their backs on AI just because of that one incident. This is wrong, you have to support your players, and team through the toughest of times. Truely, Iverson did not get along with Coach Ford, but we all have different personalities. When you have a superstar player like Allen Iverson, you have to treat him with the upmost deceny. Never in his career was Allen asked to come off the bench, and he was shocked. Allen Iverson is the Philadelphia 76ers franchise, so to ask the team to come of the bench is absurd.
I used to not like AI but iv'e learned to respect him. I read about him etc. He is fun to watch play. He is a small guy who a team was trying to build around and they knew he want's to take the shots and they are still keeping him and not surrounding him with the right people. You have to remember where he comes from. You have to realize that he is "listed as 6'1" but looks smaller then that". Yes he does do some things that he shouldn't. But as a basketball player, you must give credit where credit is due. Why is he injury prone? That's obvious, he's a little player who isn't afraid of driving it in to anyone and gets to the line. I'll take A.I. on the Raptors anyday, (I think VC and AI could co-exist because VC is quite and unselfish player if you watch Raptors games and if Iverson is leading the team, not necessarily being the best player, I think VC plays better when he's not the leader.) KG and AI would be sick, since they are both homies and they are opposites, KG scores alot but doesn't call for the rock and AI demands the rock.
I just don’t think it fair that everyone starts criticizing on him based on just one season. Allen Iverson has been surrounded by controversy since he came to the NBA, and somehow his actions off the court symbolized the type of player he is on the court. The off-court nonsense is completely overrated for that matter, so I won’t even into that. And thing is that he pretty struggled early in his career (As for as bringing the team to new heights), and when this so called “ballhog” got MVP honors and lead his team to the finals everyone jumped on the bandwagon. And it was from that point on, where you had those people calling him a ballhog suddenly became Iverson fans. But now all of a sudden he had his most injury prone season of his career, and failed to bring the Sixers to the Playoff's, and then you have those bandwagon fans jumping off the bandwagon and those whom hated on him start blabbing on all over again. I’m pretty sure if, he were to have a great season next season, all those who questioned him will just jump right back on the bandwagon and will be like ”A.I is the man, I told ya he would be back next season” or those whom constantly hate on him, would just keep quite…again. Well this whole thing is ridiculous if ask me. I'm trying my best to say what I really wanted to say, but it just didn’t come out right. But this whole thing in general is just plain stupid. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What people don't see is that he is truly a good player, a top 10 player IMO</div> IMO? It's pretty much a fact that he ranks 1-10, but in my opinion he somewhere between 1-7, if not 6.
If you ask some people around these boards, some will say he barely makes the top 20. I looked at a recent thread that had a list of the top players in the NBA, and I did not see Allen on it. I didn't respond because they would call me biased, and all types of nonsense, but when I saw players like Peja Stojakovic, Vince Carter, and Paul Pierce on there it totally blew my mind. IMO Allen ranks at number 6 as well behind Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Tracy, and KG. Why isn't he top five, I hate to say it, but it's size?! Allen would most definetely grace every NBA First Team list in his prime were it not for his size. Kobe, and Tracy, his rivals to be on that list are taller than him, thus more hungrier for rebounds, thus better all around players. If Allen were taller he would be a top four player in these days, he already gets more points, assists, and steals than Kobe, and Tracy, so all he would need is rebounds. I know it's all statistical, but that's what the NBA bases it on.
Don't want to get into too much depth, but good player, would be more succesful if he learnt to play with another star on his team instead of just role players or semi-stars, would also be a lot more succesfull if he had developed a sick jumper, he'd actually be unstoppable if he could shoot as well as the other good SG's (and Stackhouse is not a good SG). He has his baggage, I mean theirs things he could've done like strengthning his body, look at guys like Marbury and Baron, they're strong but still very quick, he doesn't have to be that big (they're 6'3), but he should've been more committed to doing some of those things instead of it all being individual he should've gone and gotten other people to help him (trainers etc). One of the things that people have a misconception with AI is that because he doesn't practice (or like to) he doesn't work, he has a very good off-season work ethic, and he works on his game a lot, but what he needed was I guess to let his ego go and not think he could do everything individually. He's not neccesarily injury prone, but not young anymore, and if he plays the same way he will be because his body isn't going to survive driving into big men all day long, and he will become injury prone. As far as rank, he's likely top 10 or at least top 15 in the league. KG Duncan Shaq Kobe Kidd Tmac JO Dirk Pierce The Baron Iverson Carter Brand Marbury If this was a few years ago he's be in there after Tmac or Dirk (JO wouldn't be in the list), but not right now.
2 years ago he was around 6th on my list, but things have changed alot since then. Webber, Carter among others have declined on peoples lists. 1- Kevin Garnett 2- Tim Duncan 3- Shaquille O'neal 4- Kobe Bryant 5- Tracy McGrady 6- Jason Kidd 7- Jermaine O'neal 8- Dirk Nowitzki 9- Paul Pierce 10- Vince Carter 11- Baron Davis 12- Stephon Marbury 13- Allen Iverson 14- LeBron James 15- Chris Webber (has had one mediocre season) It's hard to put LeBron James on there because he has not been in the league long but I had to get him up there.
I seriously don't see how you can put Iverson below Pierce, Davis, Marbury, and definetely Carter. To say that he is only one ahead a rookie is embarrasing as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sasha:</div><div class="quote_post">I seriously don't see how you can put Iverson below Pierce, Davis, Marbury, and definetely Carter. To say that he is only one ahead a rookie is embarrasing as well.</div> Why do people hate on Carter so much, it seems that people that like Iverson really despise Carter. Pierce is younger, and so is Baron, they're 27 and 25, Iverson is 29.
