alright boys, draft time....whats your poison this year?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Casske:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with you to a point, but I can't imagine who we'd get... the rumors about trading for Garnett don't really fill the need, since he's a PF, and I'm pretty sure has said he doesn't want to play C (in addition to being too slight to do it). That also creates a logjam unless Murphy or Diogu is traded, and I think both of them are valuable enouh players that I wouldn't want one to be forced to ride the bench for a prolonged KG run. Point being, I think the team needs a change at center first and foremost. Truth be told, I can't think of anyone they could get... might be possible to rob the Knicks of Frye before the fire Thomas, or maybe talk to Denver about Camby, but there's always an injury cocern with him. Isn't Ben Wallace a free agent? Come to think of it, though, both Camby and Wallace are getting up there...</div>
Yeah, Casske I agree that the center position will be hard to fill... so hopefully we have pieces available to trade for a big guy. Over we overpay some FA that already has a ring. Ben Wallace would be nice... Camby is pretty fun to watch but that guy's injuries are annoying.

I like Rem's idea of drafting a guy to replace Murphy in case he's dealt. Nick Fazerkas is kind of like a Curtis Borchardt/Clif Robinson type. I'm down with that.

 

btw... still FAR from draft time. We don't even know the draft order yet

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting iLL PiLL:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont know anything about college ball cuz i never watch it. But how tall is Rudy Gay?? In the video all you see are dunks, does he have a good stroke or anything? He has mad hops though, the warriors would be even more entertaining if we drafted him.</div>

*bump*

Ill Pill had the same question I did. Anybody know from watching if Gay's shot is reliable? I'm hoping it's Grant Hill accurate and he's at least as quick as Jrich (IMO I believe Jrich ain't that quick with his feet for a two guard compared to guys like Michael Redd, young Ray Allen, Kobe, Larry Hughes, Cuttino Mobley, Raja Bell, or a healthy Derek Anderson). So many different posts jumping to Splitter, Yi Lian Jian, O'Bryant, Sheldon Williams, Carney ...it's hard to stay organized. LOL

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Casske:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with you to a point, but I can't imagine who we'd get... the rumors about trading for Garnett don't really fill the need, since he's a PF, and I'm pretty sure has said he doesn't want to play C (in addition to being too slight to do it). That also creates a logjam unless Murphy or Diogu is traded, and I think both of them are valuable enouh players that I wouldn't want one to be forced to ride the bench for a prolonged KG run. Point being, I think the team needs a change at center first and foremost. Truth be told, I can't think of anyone they could get... might be possible to rob the Knicks of Frye before the fire Thomas, or maybe talk to Denver about Camby, but there's always an injury cocern with him. Isn't Ben Wallace a free agent? Come to think of it, though, both Camby and Wallace are getting up there...</div>

We still haven't even given Andris Biedrins and Chris Taft there due PT. I believe a trio of Andris, Taft, and Foyle is decent. I would love to have KG paired up with Taft or Andris in the post. I'd also love to see KG paired up with Ike as well. KG is a tremendous shot blocker, and I believe can play enough of the center position. And with the guys I already mentioned in Taft, Andris, and Foyle, he wouldn't need to play a lot of minutes as the center.

It is very difficult to find any centers in the NBA today. Many times you'll just end up with Chris Chandler or Michael Olawakandi or Adonal Foyle. Waiting for one center that we are satisfied with will probably prolong our search for the playoffs another twelve years. Also since we have a decent group of centers on the team, I don't think it's a total necessity to bring in a center. I would take KG before Frye, though landing Frye will be fine too.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Rudy Gay will probably be gone by the time we're up. Dunks are nice, but can this guy handle the ball, pass and shoot? Can he play nba defense...? I'll be pissed if he we pick a guy that can't do three things as a perimeter guy (shoot, pass, handle) as well as play defense.</div>
With Rudy Gay its not so much a matter of what he can do...as what he DOES do. I'd seen several games where a top talent should have just stepped up,taken the game under control,won it...and it seemed Gay was not so inclined and that fell to Denham Brown. When Adam Morrison was in the game,or Sheldon Williams,or Noah,you KNEW it. With Gay,often I'd have to hunt for him because he'd been so low profile. He CAN take it to the rim,but don't expect a Pietrus style flying assault. Rudy waits till it's uncontested,Pietrus takes the undercut and comes back for more. In time Rudy may get more assertive. At least he's willing to try on D.

It may not matter,I think he goes 7 or 8. Sheldon Williams could be our pick. We have PF's,he's an inch short for C,but he is a force on D,a top rebounder,a skilled in the paint player. Were we to trasde down a little,O' Bryant would be the target. If he tests well,does well in a tryout,maybe he's #9.

Saer Sene is one of several interesting guys if we traded down further,such as a Foyle-Mo Taylor deal with NY getting our #9,us getting the Den and SA #1's

If he stays in....Morris Almond of Rice...possible rd 2, He scored 21.9 pt,5.8 rbd,50% fg,with 44.4 from 3..which is a better % than Reddick or Morrison.
He's pretty smooth.

 

Gay is not explosive quick like Pietrus or Monta,is smooth and fluid. A good shooter,but no Grant Hill,basically a well rounded player but no one thing that stands out. Can have a solid career but I don't expect a star.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">basically a well rounded player but no one thing that stands out. Can have a solid career but I don't expect a star.</div>

Basically sounds like Dunleavy, and we all know what happened with him...

 

I am not sold on anybody thus far. Sheldon Williams has a lot of nice things, but he could be another mediocre defensive, garbage-work role player. I do like the fact he's made improvements in free throw shooting, but his strength/quickness probably won't stand out on the next level to be anything like Alonzo Mourning, Emeka Okafor, or Ben Wallace at center. I think he'll be less than solid on offense than those guys and probably more like Foyle on shotblocking, a little bit like Etan Thomas in the post. Keep in mind, I can't really make expert judgements about these
players that I've only seen a few times, but I pick up from the consensus that guys like Gay are missing a lot of important things in their game to be an effective player in this league and guys like Sheldon Williams have a lot of skill, but bleed "role player" rather than "star player". I think we got enough stiff or unathletic role players and enough raw guys who don't understand the game... We just can't get a break in finding the guy that has the physical tools and the skills to play the game right now. We just have nobody on this roster that opponents can't take out of the game. We've got guys who can easily shut down our guys on offense and can't play defense or runs organized plays... It's horrible. There's not one thing we're good at.

On the Rudy Gay subject: If guys like Travis Outlaw/Ndudi Ebi are not cracking the rotation or are being run out of the league despite huge potential, it might be wiser to just go after a much rarer, sought after position. A big man that plays like a big man. All the big enforcers in the paint seem to be lacking in the league. I'll take Etan Thomas or young Brian Grant or an unathletic Antonio McDyess that at least understands the game better than Foyle because Foyle ain't a basketball player. Our team is so soft, I wouldn't mind another banger because at least it would help our perimeter offense get what they need from them.

 

The Deal on Sheldon is I saw him 10-12 times the last 2 years and they were not playing creampuffs. At his WORST,Sheldon still was a major force,playing smart and tough. At his best he dominated the paint on both ends. I care more about what's in the package than how it's wrapped. If Sheldon is a top post scorer,defender,rebounder..we don't seem to have too much of that.

 

I can't figure why Williams gets tagged as a "role" player,when he has a well rounded game and was a legit star on a top team. i could never figure some Euro getting compared to Dirk and Pau when he's yet to win a starting gig in a league full of guys that played college ball in the states but never got drafted or could not stick on a roster.

Sheldon is our best bet at #9,if he's there. Some team may have the sense to pick him higher. Plan B is probably O'Bryant. He's got rough edges but is young and has some good signs.

I think the odds do favor a trade down,we dump a contract or two,we get a couple of lower picks and bargain hunt. We can hopefully find a steal..or two and that becomes an asset to keep or to trade.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">Basically sounds like Dunleavy, and we all know what happened with him...</div>

Yeah,there's some Dunleavy there when it comes to being too passive,or just dissappearing altogather for a while. Gay is more athletic,Dun knows the game better but both need more bulldog in them.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">The Deal on Sheldon is I saw him 10-12 times the last 2 years and they were not playing creampuffs. At his WORST,Sheldon still was a major force,playing smart and tough. At his best he dominated the paint on both ends. I care more about what's in the package than how it's wrapped. If Sheldon is a top post scorer,defender,rebounder..we don't seem to have too much of that.</div>

Without a doubt I'd take Williams over O'Bryant. Outside of O'Bryant's height and athleticism, there isn't much there. If Shelden is more than a role player it won't be because of his offense. Guy gets swatted at least 3-4 times a game in college. I really don't care about that too much if he can play defense, catch a basketball, shoot free throws and rebound. He can do all of those and this draft is pretty weak so I have no problem with him.

Ideally I'd like to get a point guard to make it viable to trade Fisher and never see his face again in Golden State. Rondo, Foye, Williams.

 

Man... I just think we should dump the pick. If 2007 and 2008 picks turn out to be decent I'd just save up money for those future guys. I sure as heck hope we don't sign another Dunleavy or a Foyle. Something tells me that the guy we pick won't really help our franchise the way we need it. We need a star. Not a defensive or offensive role player. We need a guy that will do it all.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Man... I just think we should dump the pick. If 2007 and 2008 picks turn out to be decent I'd just save up money for those future guys. I sure as heck hope we don't sign another Dunleavy or a Foyle. Something tells me that the guy we pick won't really help our franchise the way we need it. We need a star. Not a defensive or offensive role player. We need a guy that will do it all.</div>

Yeah, I'd trade the picks as well. We need help now, I don't feel like waiting for anymore players to emerge... I'm still waiting for Dunleavy to.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Man... I just think we should dump the pick. If 2007 and 2008 picks turn out to be decent I'd just save up money for those future guys. I sure as heck hope we don't sign another Dunleavy or a Foyle. Something tells me that the guy we pick won't really help our franchise the way we need it. We need a star. Not a defensive or offensive role player. We need a guy that will do it all.</div>

Even in a great draft, it's not very likely to find that superstar type guy at the 9-11 slot. That being said our problems really aren't that bad. We have two stars right now: Baron and JRich. The problem is that our two most talented players are both in the backcourt leaving our frontcourt to play like a bunch of sissy barefoot girls.

IMO we just need some depth upfront. Right now we have a bunch of guys that cannot stay on the floor. With Foyle you have 4 on 5 basketball and his rebounding and interior defense are awful, you have a scoring type of PF in Murph that plays zero defense of any sort, you have Diogu who gets into foul troubles and still has no idea what the hell he is doing defensively and then you have Biedrins who makes the biggest impact but is too skinny and fouls too much. Your not going to have any kind of consistency with that. I'd love to get a KG or Jermaine but we'd still gonna need some depth for those guys.

Either trade one of Rich or Baron and one of Ike and Beans for a legit big, trade Fish or Murph for a veteran big man and develop the big we keep between Ike & Beans. Use some of the MLE to sign another vet big or SF for cheap. If it were up to me I'd let Foyle cry his eyes out at the end of the bench and be our 15th man. Realistically he'll play backup and probably do a halfway decent job against the other scrubs. Next year he'll have 2 years left on his contract and we can try to dump our garbage for someone else's.

As far as who to pick in the draft, it's exciting hoping that somehow Aldridge, Gay, Thomas would somehow fall in our lap at nine but that happens once every blue moon. Just get someone cheap that can play their roles and try to land the bigger fishes elsewhere and get some frontcourt depth. If we could just get somebody to play defense upfront, we will get 40 wins.

 

I think we should use the pick to entice someone into taking Foyle or Fisher. Those are two weighty contracts that will make it difficult to sign Monta, Beans, or Ike. I don't think their contracts come off the books before those guys are eligble for free agency. Maybe there's an "Arenas" clause on Monta, but regarless we're going to need some cash in order to pick our spots and dish out some contracts, and the best way to do that is to find a way to move Foyle or Fisher.

In my opinion, just losing those two players for nothing would be an asset to the team and our contract situation. Unfortunately, we can't just cut contracts off the books. We have to trade them and take back $ in return. It's unlikely to get expiring contracts for either of these overplayed bench scrubs.

But, maybe if we include the pick, and Pietrus, and Taft, we can make a package for an expiring contract and send Foyle's ass packing. or Fisher's ass packing.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Man... I just think we should dump the pick. If 2007 and 2008 picks turn out to be decent I'd just save up money for those future guys. I sure as heck hope we don't sign another Dunleavy or a Foyle. Something tells me that the guy we pick won't really help our franchise the way we need it. We need a star. Not a defensive or offensive role player. We need a guy that will do it all.</div>

This year,even a top 3 is no lock to be a star. Morrison will be a scorer because he makes a lot of shots most guys would be wrong to even try. Its hart to D a guy who flips it it lunging or falling over. He's not the ultra athlete but has great instinct and energy. Against the good athletes in the pros,maybe his confidence can be a problem if the defender has him forcing shots. Aldridge? 6-11 so a potential C,but put his stats next to Sheldon W and its no contest. 2" is not a lot,especially given Sheldon's wingspan,but Aldridge is also younger. Aldridge is good,not KG material or even Bosh. Thomas is like a young McDyess.a freaky athlete but really a lot more tools than skills. Roy? A notch above a decent crop og sg's but not a big producer,well rounded but light on star quality. Gay has tools and skills,everyone wonders about his toughness,his killer instincts,his read and react. Carney is damn fast and a leaper,also an airhead who falls in love with the 3 and can entirely forget D. Kind of makes Sheldon or O' Bryant look good.

It also makes some late rd 1 guys,round 2 guyas look good. Fazekas had better numbers than Aldridge,21 pt 11 rbd. Craig Smith of BC is 6-7 255 and a guy who tore it up in the ACC tournament averaging 20-11-with 5 assists in 3 games in 3 days vs Maryland,UNC and Duke. Smith is a tough dude inside,a real SMART player.an unusually good passer. At 255 he's gonna be a step slow for SF...but is it harder to trim 10 lb off smith or add 20 points of Basketball IQ to Carney..who is more expensive by 20+ draft slots. If Morris Almond stays in the draft...another rd 2 steal this 6-6 swingman from Rice was a volume scorer...a lot more so than Brandon Roy..and shot 50% overall with a better 3% than Reddick.
Another I like.Erick Hicks. U Cincinnati. Was basically a 6-6 CENTER in the big East...but 6-6,6-9,6-11....he got 7 shotblocks vs U Conn,10 and a triple double vs Marquette,had a couple of games of 10 OFFENSIVE boards
Hicks,like C Smith could make it as an undersize PF in the NBA. He was,like Smith,consistantly dominant in tough competition. Like Smith,I'd be looking to adapt him to sf,to find a mini-Ben Wallace as a rd 2 bargain...a tough guy for when Dun is too damn soft.

 

We have a pretty young roster,time is on our side. We CAN play high risk..and set ourselves back a few years. That should be avoided.

This Draft has value in the 20-40 area while being kind of shaky up top. I see scenarios where we CAN do a "dump" deal for Fish,Foyle or Dun trading down,and getting,ultimately a late # 1 and a couple more 06 #2's. We could push a bit,aim for maybe Gerald Wallace,figure it costs us Pietrus and a 07 pick,with Dunleavy gone in the deal too.

I REFUSE to undervalue our players because Monty can't provide any sort of coaching skills and has the team far below where it can be.

 

I know people will jump all over me on this, but If we managed to get Garnett... Foyle would actually be a good compliment to him. I don't think dumping him right away would be a necessity. And Fisher (if he were reeled in) would actually do ok with the inside out game. Dunleavy is actually a decent compliment as well if he focused on slashing off the high screen and back door cuts. Murphy would be the odd man out. Obviously, Murphy wouldn't be enough to get KG, but if it meant dumping Ike, Murphy, and Pietrus to get him, I'd be all for it. Sure, nothing would make me happier than dumping Fisher too..I'm not sure what salaries would have to be added, but I'd gladly make those changes for a franchise changer (especially because I think Monta will be a better player than Pietrus in 2 years anyway)

 

KG Makes so much money. Here's the Warriors' contracts:

Andris Biedrins $1,857,360 1
Will Bynum -- --
Zarko Cabarkapa $1,404,360 1
Calbert Cheaney $1,760,000 1
Baron Davis $13,700,000 3
Ike Diogu $1,988,160 1
Mike Dunleavy (PPP) $4,506,261 5
Monta Ellis $448,762 0
Derek Fisher $5,393,300 4
Adonal Foyle $7,312,500 3
Troy Murphy (BYC) $7,365,079 5
Mickael Pietrus $1,910,520 1
Jason Richardson (BYC) $8,888,888 5
Chris Taft $423,762

KG makes $18 million, so we'd have to throw in everything but the kitchen sink to land him. If we kept Monta, Beans, JRich, and Baron, and still made it work, that'd be sweet.