In fairness, I don't actually believe this, but it's a pretty good context to remove attention from firing the disaster of a coach they hired only a few months ago. Under other circumstances, everyone would be talking about the turmoil of jettisoning Porter, but at this point everyone seems happy with that because it means they're less likely to trade Amare. Which is kinda funny because lots of people seemed willing to cut the cord on Amare himself a few weeks back.
I think this is about right. None of the oft-mentioned trades would get the Suns under the luxury tax this year, and without doing that, I don't see how it's worth it for the Suns. Perhaps no one is willing or able to get a third team involved and move enough salary?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...28vLYF?slug=aw-shaq021509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns Make no mistake: The future of the franchise could be at the mercy of the impulsive, impatient Sarver. “Sarver is all over the map,” said one Western Conference executive briefed on Suns matters. “One minute, he wants to do a basketball deal. And then the next, it’s a salary dump.” The Chicago Bulls and Suns were talking seriously on Sunday, and multiple league sources believe those two teams are the best chance for a Stoudemire trade to happen. The talks with Chicago are still centered on the expiring contract of Drew Gooden, Tyrus Thomas and a first-round draft pick. Nevertheless, Suns officials are privately insisting to teams that they’d better get out their best offers for Stoudemire, because they say they’re willing to keep him and let the trade deadline pass Thursday. The Suns have been disappointed in the quality of offers for Stoudemire, and no one is sure they’ll get better between now and Thursday. Portland and Cleveland are waiting back, sources say, hoping the Suns are unable to close a deal near the trade deadline and that Sarver, desperate to shed the salary, will cave into the uninspiring offers those two teams have made for Stoudemire. Portland has offered the expiring deal of Raef LaFrentz, rookie point guard Jerryd Bayless and a first-round pick. Cleveland has offered the expiring contract of Wally Szczerbiak, rookie forward J.J. Hickson and a first-rounder. “They’re waiting to see if Sarver is desperate enough to dump him for cap room,” one Western Conference executive said. Still, the Suns privately insist to people that they’ll never do that trade with the Blazers, which is why a Western Conference executive said Sunday night that Portland was exploring a LaFrentz-Travis Outlaw package for the Milwaukee Bucks’ Richard Jefferson and Luke Ridnour. Bulls assistant GM Gar Forman – who most believe will succeed John Paxson over the summer – has spearheaded the Bulls’ trade talks. Gooden brings an expiring contract, and Thomas is an athletic, 6-foot-9 power forward the Suns can plug into Stoudemire’s slot. After a sluggish start to his career, Thomas, 22, has blossomed this season. Across the past 21 games as a starter, he’s averaged a career-best 12.5 points and 7.0 rebounds. He could fit well into the faster offense that new Suns coach Alvin Gentry – who replaces the fired Terry Porter – is expected to bring to the Suns. The Suns’ VP of basketball operations, David Griffin, loved Thomas when he was coming out of LSU three years ago. The Suns also have discussed adding Matt Barnes into a trade with Stoudemire, front office officials said. Still, the market for Stoudemire has been sluggish. Part of that is the recession that has owners more interested in trimming payroll than adding to it. And part of that has been the desperate state of the Suns that’s left teams believing they can steal Stoudemire. In these economic times, this is a league of sellers, not buyers. While the Suns are insisting that they’re willing to hold onto Stoudemire without the right offer, most teams are skeptical. They think Sarver is determined to dump Stoudemire, whatever the recommendations of his top basketball executives, Kerr and Griffin. Sources say the Bulls have been off-balance in dealings with the Suns, just because they’re never sure which way Sarver will veer next.
The Bulls and Suns will undoubtedly talk on Wednesday. There is a lot of money that the Bulls can save the Suns. But it will also cost the Bulls a lot. They will already be over the luxury tax for next year, and that's not taking into account Ben Gordon yet, who they will need to be true contenders.
Consider the trade the Bulls supposedly offered. Gooden, Thomas, Thabo, Simmons, pick for Amare. $14.6M coming in and $15M going out. $400k difference in salary means the actual savings for this season are $400k of luxury tax plus $160k of salary they don’t have to pay. That’s nothing. Now, take the same trade except send Gooden to Memphis and Quentin Ross back to the Bulls. The Bulls add in $3M in salary to cover the remainder of Gooden’s contract. This now means the Suns are trading out $15M and bringing back only $7.4M. This saves them $3M in salary this year that they won’t have to pay out. It gets them under the luxury tax as well, so they don’t have to pay $5M in luxury tax they’re currently slated to pay. And they get the $5-8M in league payments (escrow and luxury tax) that they would forfeit if they’re over the tax. So add it up. We’re talking $3 M+ $5M+$5 to 8M = $13 to $16M in savings. If it’s a matter of inducing the Grizzlies to do this, the Suns can throw up to $3M their way too, and still come out ahead, but at least $10M. I think the reality is it’s probably all about money for the Bulls too. The Bulls wouldn’t, I think, have to include Simmons in this deal, but are doing so to stay as close to the LT as possible. They’d still have to complete another trade by the deadline to shave off a million or two in salary themselves and add a couple players (net) to their roster. I personally think they must have something like this lined up, or they wouldn't put in a bid on Amare in the first place. And of course, under this deal they're giving up $3M in cash (they could probably work a way for the Suns to pay this too, still netting them several million).
Tech N9ne's friend says that nothing had changed. 50/50 chance that the Bulls land Amare. Tech isn't going to update his site before the trade deadline because he doesn't want to ruin anything. Tech's friend thinks that the Bulls/Suns have a deal agreed to, but that the Suns are still trying to dump Richardson or Shaq on them.
If you put together the Hoops World rumor, that the Bulls are going to take back Dudley back in exchange for the trade exception in a separate trade, and the Bright Side of the Sun rumor of it being Thomas, Gooden, + Another player. Then the trade could be in full: Drew Gooden, Tyrus Thomas, Thabo Sefolosha/Cedric Simmons, trade exception, draft picks for Amare Stoudemire, Louis Amudson, Matt Barnes, Jared Dudley. That gets Phoenix under the luxury tax. Also assures that we're in the luxury tax next year if we make no other moves, even if we don't trade Gordon. Would have to pay double the dollar to retain Gordon next summer. If we could do a follow up deal of Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng (the Jazz supposedly were the team trying to trade for Deng last year that the Bulls used to set Deng's contract number) to Utah for Carlos Boozer and Kyle Korver, we could shed a little salary for over the next two years, while getting out of Korver's salaries by 2010. Which makes signing Ben Gordon a little bit easier.
You can't trade a trade exception and this doesn't get the Suns under the tax. Also, that trade won't get the Suns under the tax in the end because they're trading 4 guys for 3. (Amare+Barnes+Amundsun+Dudley for Gooden/Tyrus/Thabo). They'll have to add one more guy to meet the minimum roster requirements, and that'll put them back over the LT. And I still think there's no way in hell the Bulls pay the tax. So they need to find a 3rd team. The Warriors, I think, are in a much better position to make a deal like that. They can offer Randolph, Turiaf, Wright, Azubuike, Belineli for Amare, Barnes, Dudley, Amundsun. This results in $17.88M going out to the Warriors and $13.053M coming in to the Suns, shaving off $4.827M from the Suns cap figure. According to ESPN, that'd get the Suns to $70.935M in team salary, just under the luxury tax. The Warriors would actually be just over it, and would need to trade off CJ Watson or Anthony Morrow, but there'd be a line of teams waiting to take them. That's still leave the Warriors with a competitive team given that Nellie won't play anyone bigger than 6'7" anyway unless its Bidrins and Amare
You can trade a trade exception, otherwise it would have no point. We can save Phoenix quite a bit of money, and that's why an Amare trade is still a strong possibility.
No, you can't. You can use a trade exception to acquire players without giving salary back. You can't trade the exception itself to another team. We've been over all of that, and no, I don't see the Bulls doing that, nor does it make much sense for the Suns unless they actually get under the LT. a couple million is not quite a bit in the sense of being willing to give up Amare to do it. $10-15M is.
You and your wonderful insight about the Amar'e trade being done is ridiculous. You've been saying it's been done for about a week now. It's over, there is no possibility of it happening. Sorry.
I never said the Amare deal was done. Phoenix Stan of Brightside of the Sun blog, Black Jesus of RealGM forums, Steve Kyler of HoopsWorld, and Bill Ingram of HoopsWorld are the ones that said it was a done deal. The only time I proclaimed the deal was pretty much a done deal was after the false Ric Bucher report from the ESPN Boards, which I stated that the Ric Bucher quote wasn't accurate a few posts down. All I did was aggregate the rumors regarding it.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...F?slug=ys-tradebuzz021909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns I wonder if that shrinking cap memo was a tactic by Stern to try to scare Phoenix into trading Amare.
ESPN is reporting that the Suns are still fielding offers for Stoudemire. They are still insistent on getting Gay, Conley, Warrick, and a lottery pick from the Grizzlies. We could have an outside chance with this offer: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bsteec
As a Lakers' fan, let me just tell you Ric Bucher is full of shit. Everything he says is a fucking lie. I can't believe that guy still has a job. "I would bet my life that Kobe will be traded!"
