<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Philly_Freak93)</div><div class='quotemain'>MAyybe they inflate the numbers, but they probably dont.</div> No maybe about it, they do...Zack Thomas is regularly credited with over 200 tackles a season by the Dolphins, yet NFL.com has never credited him with more than 156....wanna know how teams rig it? they hire thier own statisticians to breakdown film...guys payed by the team, and likely tipped by players for even better numbers....those guys will credit an assisted tackle to any player that 1)touches a ball carrier durign a play, even if hes not in on the tackle B)is touchign a teammate when he makes a tackle or C)is deemed to have helped trapped the player, even if he never touches them....this as opposed to the NFL who unofficially credits tackles only when you are the primary tackler(solo) or are a secondary tackler(assists), they actually require you to be in on the tackle to get the stat....now you see how the Eagles website has Dawkins with 130 tackles in 2002, while the NFL only recognized 91 of them....in the interest of being fair, I will recompile my list using the NFLs tackle totals, as seen on NFL.com, and repost the totals....
alright, the results are in, these stats taken directly from NFL.com....the 1st number is total tackles, assists plus solos, and the 2nd number is int... compare to Dawks best year : 73/4 Brent Alexander 85/4 Corey Chavous 86/8 Rodney Harrison 126/3 Dexter Jackson 88/6 Earl Little 60/6 Tony Parrish 78/9 Ed Reed 71/7 Brian Russell 95/9 Darren Sharper 82/5 Dwight Smith 73/5 Reggie Tongue 70/4 Greg Wesley 104/6 Aeneas Williams 74/4 Eugene Wilson 61/4 Dawks best season was better than E.Wilson and Reggie Tongues 2003 seasons, but the rest of the safeties 2003 campaigns remained better than Dawks best ever season...on another note, Dawk was cretited with 91 tackles in 2002, but only 2 picks, so I listed his 1999 stats as his best year since he had twice the ints and only 18 fewer tackles....
This is sick. You guys all concentrate on stats, but you should know, that stats do not make a player. Especially in the secondary. When a team recognizes that a player on the opposing team is a dominant force, they will scheme away from him. Look at it this way, Deon Sanders never had more then 7 picks in a season, yet Ronde Barber had 9 in 2002. Does that mean that Ronde is a better corner??? I know from listening to opposing offensive coordinators talk, that Dawkins is one of the best safety's in the league. Whether it's THE best or 3rd best, does it really matter. I know that for Jim Johnson's defense, he's the best. He has a rare ability that he can blitz like a linebacker, and yet cover like a corner. I rememeber a game in 2002 when he became a first player ever to cause a fumble, recover a fumble, intercept a ball and score a receiving touchdown. That in itself just shows he versatility. I also think that his ability to play is crucial to the Eagles. Is he better or worse then the safety's everyone mentioned, maybe/maybe not. But for the eagles defense, he's a perfect fit.
Wow this argument tought me alot about other safetys, and it was fun to argue this point. yea bears, i will re-state my earlier statement. Dawkins is the top FS in the LEAGUE. Dawkins is the 5th best S in the league. look Beef, RW's rookie year he played most of his games as a SS because woodson was hurt. he had 90+ tackles This year he played all 16 games as a FS, he had 73 tackles. it shows the difference of the position. ALl thoug passes defended arent as big as INTs, they are still important, it prevents a first down in most cases, and also could give better field position, and set up for a punt rather than a INT inside the 20. what a great argument
Well i guess we have learned a lot, when judging players you can be unbiased and judge by production(you cant avoid safeties like corners so deion argument is out), or you can look at them through team colored glasses. . .eagles fans - "wow he is the best ever" but either way right or wrong it is fun to argue the point.
i never said any1 was the best ever. i said best in the league and after breaking it down w. u and beef, i saw and accepted the fact he was the best FS, and statistical wise hes not even in the to 10 for S, and most of the top 10 are SS. we should do that for another player. sometime
Safeties can not be avoided like CBs. That was stated in the beginning and I stand by that....for a safety the stats do tell a story....it has been a fun argument, I learned something, for sure...there are a lot of good safeties in the league....
Strahan is DE by the way different position as jenkins Ed Reed Rodney Harrison Darren Sharper are all better
If you guys want to talk about overrated. What about Michaeel Vick at 19. Here's how Prisco has his qb's 1. Peyton Manning 3. Steve McNair 12. Tom Brady 18. Brett Favre 19. Michael Vick 38. Donovan McNabb I think that it totally rediculous. 19!!! What the hell has he done in this league. I will agree that he's explosive, but football is not about looking cute on the field. How could you put Vick 20 spots over McNabb. A player that has been to 4 Pro Bowls in 4 years, and 3 NFC championship games in a row. Vick has missed a season worth of gams over 2 years, McNabb has missed 6 games in 4 years. It's not even a comparison, and anyone that knows anything about football knows that. Vick might be a good/great player one day (if he ever stays healthy), you do not rank players in the top 50 based on If's.
i agree but i think these are more like predictions than a list ( i hope or this guy is out of his mind
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Philly_Freak93)</div><div class='quotemain'>-Rodney Harrison-What do you know anothe SS, like i said, a player like dawkins, similiar stats in Sacks and PD, close in INTs, but rodney has the tackles on him but also plays SS </div> I know I missed some of this thread but... First we have no strong safety. Belichick calls them spilt safties and the responsibilities are shared depending on the play call. Remeber we were going to have Milloy and Harrison together and both were considered SS before but belichick put the lable to bed during last off season. Rodney was locked up on teams third receivers many times. He was in coverage alot but always had the ability to be an extention of our LB's whether he was in coverage or not. Both Last season and his career has been light years above Dawks. He was another guy with no help for years in San Diego. As for most the safties on that list I can only comment maybe on half of them because alot of them I haven't seen enough first hand so I won't bother...Plus I'm at work and don't have the time
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giantsfan12004)</div><div class='quotemain'>Strahan is DE by the way different position as jenkins Ed Reed Rodney Harrison Darren Sharper are all better</div> dude were going FS now, reed and harrison are SS
So you didn't read my post????? HARRISON IS NEITHER IN NE BUDDY. THEY PLAY BOTH FREE AND STRONG. THEY BOTH COVER THEY BOTH HELP ON THE RUN AND BLITZ PERIOD.
most teams are going to free/strong hybrids anyway, where both safeties can run and hit and either is capable of playing centerfield or being an extra 'backer....Dawkins does fit in the new mold of super safeties that can do it all, but Harrison can also
ok, i was thinking about this safety the whole time, but didnt want to bring his name up because it would go against my argument because i know hes a top 10 safety. Lawyer Milloy. im surpised his name came up not once
the interesting thing about Malloy is that he has a rep. as a good safety, which he once was, but in the last 2 years, he has recorded no ints, and only 1 sack....his tackles are down as well....theres no way hes a top 30 safety at this point, and Belichek, to his credit, knew it before anyone else...
All this arguing over Safeties. Good Grief. Valid points, beef, about teams inflating the stats of their players. Let me, hopefully, put this topic to bed. It was Mark Twain who said there are 3 types of Lies; Lies, damned lies, & statistics. Lastly, If a safety is making a 130 tackles in a season then the team has a crappy defense.
I was going to mention Lawyor and he did have a slightly better season last year but beef is right he has hit a wall and doesn't seem to want to work through it so he can play into his 30's. also I'm now glad the Belichick has the balls to cut someone of his stature in both the league and New England.
