The Patriots have been ravashed by injuries this year, no doubt about that....I think I read somewhere that they have started 40+ players this year, which just makes thier record that more amazing and proves that teams can overcome injuries if the team is assembled well and coached properly
I think what it says is the team is well coached and has alot of depth peroid. Injurys are part of the game yes but we all have slipped away from the thread main focus who's the worst defending champs. Tampa isnt base it on facts or whatever. Bottom line is our team lost it major players and we couldnt overcome it. The patroits did it two years ago we did it this year. As for me thinking the nfl has something up its sleeve for the bucs nfl schedule lol, well i can tell ya next seasons schedule were all excited for. Our toughest opp will be kc and denver. Also i dont complain for our schedule the last 8 years ranking tops with the skolers. I take that as a compliment considering the fact tampa has the most wins of all teams in the last 7 years.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>blackadder wrote: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Bucs40etrain wrote: Blackadder, you forgot the horrible season gramitca has had and some of the key fgs he's misssed along with the leagues worst special teams in which we have had. lol. Injurys are part of the game, I think we all know if tampa has alstott,jurevicous, kelly our best cover corner we win more games. Thats a fact. </div> With that logic, Miami should have won more games had Mare not had to kick off the baseball infield and the phins would've beaten Tennessee (A team they owned in prior yrs) had Zach & Surtain played. I disagree on both points. The infield has not been that much of a problem for Mare in the past. Further, it is on his home field which s/b to his advantage. Also, whose to say that Miami wouldn't have done worse in 2002 if Jay had not gotten injured and been replaced by Ray Lucas. The X factor is coaching. Tampa did as well as they because of Gruden just like Atl went down the crapper because of Reeves. The AFC East is another great example. Belichick was alot of the reason for the Pats success while Miami was successful in spite of Wanny. </div> No offense but mare was never ever held in high regards to being a great fg kicker like automatica gramitca was. Yes had mare made some key kicks for the phins yes you would of won more games. Yes had fielder played the whole season i do beleive the flippers make the playoffs. Worst coaching decision wanny ever made was putting in griese who was a bust in denver. I dont think alot of you people watched any of the tampa games. Cause as an observer to them games you clearly would of seen the bucs who started out the gate slow outscore there opponents in the last quarter to only come up short in them games. Watching gramitca miss a easy 30 yarder for the win in alteast 3 games this year. This made the defending champs atleast look like defending champs or chumps. Ive said it all along injurys are part of the game as well as the coaching. Tampa hasnt tasted a losing season in 7 seasons, is bucky the blame for tampa not making the playoffs hell yes he is. But he's also responsible for winning us a superbowl. Even trade off imo, jurys out next year. Like i wrote up at the top in that novel, the patroits injurys are something unheard of to win 14 games with them is even hard to imagine. They have no excuses to not win it all, theve succeded with all there injurys. I cant say the same for tampa. But we arent the worst defending champs of all time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>TheBeef wrote: My original post was asking the question "Are the Bucs the worst defending champs ever?" Considering the way they played (injuries or not), I think they are....Other candidates for this distinction would be the 5-11 Broncos, but they lost Elway to retirement, and the Giants that missed the playoffs after thier Super Bowl, but they lost thier coach....so with that, I say the Bucs were more disappointing than any other team in the league....as far as the injuries, it will be years before a team can use that as an excuse as NE has proven that injuries dont have to be a negative thing if its approached correctly... </div> They lost elway for retirement, we lost alstott,jurevicous,kelly,keyshawn = out the same. our record is still better. 7-9 tampa bay over 5-11 broncs whos the worst?
The Bucs were worse, The Broncos lost a hall of fame QB, maybe the best ever, they lost a running back coming off a 2k season to injury, and they lost the most prolific TE in the history of the league for most of the season....the Bucs lost a FB that thinks hes a running back, a WR with no speed but a lot of heart, a corner that is only successful becuase of the cover 2, and a WR with no speed and no heart(or brain)....The bucs offense was never good even with all those players, so if that stellar defense cant win without one CB, they dont deserve to even be mentioned with the best D's of all time...
No chance buddy, for the record elway when he won the supebowl them last 2 seasons wasnt air launching balls for tds, lets get that out of the way to start. It was terrell davis and terrell davis was there in there defense. Elway wasnt relied on as much as he was in the years denver lost there superbowls. Alstott,keyshawn,joe,dudley were 70 percent of the teams offense. Kelly lol is shot down corner we put on the teams best receivers. He also took donnie abraham spot and made him expendible to lose. Our system is a system used in the nfl today by the best teams. I will take brian kelly anyday over other corners for one he's much cheaper.
You are right on the broncos losing elway,davis,sharpe and they were a major role of the broncos run to lombardi. Just like our team which i have stated had its losses as well. Alstott,dudley,keyshawn,jurevicous were our major role players to our superbowl, considering they were our teams starters on offense. That leaves us with pittman,mccardell,brad johnson and sapp on offense? No our offense isnt eye poping but its our offense and we won with it. When you have to depend on your defensive tackle for tds at te. Something tells me were lacking something. Offense? As for tampas claim to greatness and the best d ever. Nope i didnt think we were in the first place. But i think your shots at now putting down tampa players shows your trying to sway away from your own thread, Whos the worst ever?
1.Terrell Davis blew out his knee just a few games into the 1999 season and never recovered.... 2.The Champion Broncos were very balanced, thats what made them so good....Elway was the undisputed leader of that team, and losing him was a major blow to the 1999 team...was he the Elway of the early 90's??? No, but even then he was a top 5 QB in the league.... 3.They lost Shannon Sharpe for all but 5 games in that season....We are talking about the same Shannon Sharpe that is the NFLs all time leader in catches and TD catches by a TE.... Thats the loss of 3 bonifide Hall of Fame players, 2 of them 1st ballot guys..... 4.If you think Brian Kelly is a shut down corner, you aint watching much football. 5.Most of the league runs a cover 2 because most of the corners in the league cant hack it....look at the teams that dont run the cover 2....Miami, Buffalo, Washington, Tennessee, those teams have real shutdown corners that can go on an island and cover, the Bucs dont even play man defense, they drop into 7 zones and rush 4(its really a cover 3, to get technical)...Im somewhat surprised that you didnt know that.... 6.The Bucs offense was never impressive, even with all those players you mention....the cant run the ball, they barely pass the ball, there at there best when they just dont turn it over(not just a coincendence that they win the Super Bowl the year Johnson throws only 4 ints).... All those player loses hurt Im sure, but if you think you can compare those loses to the players the 1999 Broncos were without, thats just crazy!
Admittedly we have gotten a bit sidetracked off the original post as its turned into a debate over the 99 Broncos and the 03 Bucs....To tell you the turth ,when I originally posted this thread, there were no Bucs fans here and this forum was empty, and my intention was just to get something in here so it wasnt so desolate....but in the process I have sparked a great debate, so that is fortunate....
Yep agree i have to hold the ground for my team Yes sometimes the best leaders never agree had this been jett or pb someone would of been banned. lol. I just dont beleive we are the worst defending champs like you say. Kelly we watched shut down randy moss and some of the best wr's in football. You dont make the probowl every year for being fortunate in a system that works well. Some say the probowl is based in popularity, kelly isnt a popular guy when it comes to probowl names. so stats apply.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Bucs40etrain wrote: No offense but mare was never held in high regards to being a great fg kicker like automatica gramitca was. Yes had mare made some key kicks for the phins yes you would of won more games. Yes had fielder played the whole season i do beleive the flippers make the playoffs. Worst coaching decision wanny ever made was putting in griese who was a bust in denver. I dont think alot of you people watched any of the tampa games. Tampa hasnt tasted a losing season in 7 seasons, But we arent the worst defending champs of all time. </div> Not so fast my friend. I believe that most would consider Mare in the top tier of kickers in the league along w/ Akers (Philly), Longwell (GB), Vanderjagt (Indy), Elam (Denver), & Wilkins (St L). It would be 'dancing machine' Grammatica that would not be held in high regard. I'd even take Janikowski over M. Grammatica. I've seen a few Tampa games over the years as that is who the loacal Fox Affiliate would chose to show. How else would I know about J. Lynch hamming it up and be able to say that only B. Johnson mailed their performance in? Miami has gone longer than Tampa in not having a losing season. In fact, they have had only 1 losing season in the last 25 or so and 1 at .500. You can almost pencil Miami for at least 9 wins every yr.
Blackadder, I dont know where your getting your sources as to olindo mare being a top kicker in the nfl, akers,viniteri,jankowski,elam,longwell,wilkins or vanderjeht, are tops. Gramatica was once elite for the last 5 years however He's lost a step. Olindo mare had one decent year 3 years ago i beleive, he doesnt rank tops in ff for fg kickers for a reason, he's missed more fgs easy fgs. He's an avg kicker on a team that kicks alot of fgs. As for dancing gramitca i think alot of people get martin mixed up with his brother who tore his acl jumping and dancing. That would be bill gramitca in arz, who isnt in the same league as his brother. Yep automatica gramitca doesnt earn that nick name for misses, however since that carolina game he was never the same. Am i concerned yep we lost some games we could of won with him being the decider. Back to orlindo mare, he is not a top kicker in ff or the nfl look up the books and look at his misses and his accuracy at long range, he's not a top kicker to be mentioned with those names. Maybe 3 years ago but he's had more bad seasons then good. He has cost miami some key games also, i think you can even admit that. We have the same problem now in tampa inconsistency in smurf.
Mare does, however have a reputation as being the best onside kicker in the business. That's a pretty good advantage to have on your team.
He is a great onside kicker and he set the modern record for touchbacks in as season using the new K-balls....he was an elite kicker 2 years ago, now hes not...but hes paid like he is, after his 1st few years in the league(3-4), he was the most accurate kicker in the history of the NFL, now that belongs to vanderjagt(who is the best kicker right now, even if he is a drunken idiot)....both Gramaticas dance, but Bill hurt himself doing it, but Martin is a known dancer himself, even after routine FGS
lol vanderjeht drunken idiot and janokowski bar room brawler. Gramitca dancing smurfs. Yeah beef i know exactly how miami fans feel for about mare. Ive watched the same happen here this year with martin. I havent watched mare kick onside kicks i take all your words for it. I know if my team needs a 45 yarder i want a guy who will be dependible and accurate. The kicker that has played this year, confidence is shot. It seems like yesterday when he was automatic but those days are gone. I know all we have to look foward to is the draft but i cant help but deep down root on the colts. For dungy who our team and fans really loved in tampa. Deep down you wanna see him prove others wrong and beat all them odds.
