Exclusive Around the NBA: Forgettable February edition

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by SheedSoNasty, Feb 1, 2022.

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  1. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

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    Anyone watching the Nashville Predators and Tampa Bay Lighting outdoor game on TNT? This is what the NBA should try doing. Have 1 or 2 outdoor games a year. They could do it!
     
  2. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Sigh because we got shit for him. Save your breath. We are a less talented team now since the trade.
     
  3. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Who cares. Our offense is worse.
     
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  4. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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  5. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah you make a great point. I am withholding total judgment on CJ/Larry to see what the pick yields but it was definitely not enough but it was far closer to what it should have been if the pick conveys than getting jack shit for Norm and RoCo or should I say Gary and two first round picks.

    I realize that it seems like I'm comparing what Neil did with what his entire front office that was under him is doing now but I think that's fair play. All of these people were there for the decisions to acquire and/or keep all of Norm, RoCo, Larry and CJ, then these same people pawn them for Hart, Winslow and Keon, a first rounder that is either 5-14 this season or a 2025 Milwaukee first and a 2025 second rounder, along with expiring contracts. That is such a massive downgrade in talent and this is not supposed to be the business of gifting other teams talent.

    Edit: Don't get me wrong CJ should have been traded and should have been traded for a long time now but we should have got a lot more for someone as talented as CJ that just so happens to be a really bad fit with Dame.
     
  6. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

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  7. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

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    Easy there, cowboy
     
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  8. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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  9. LayneStaley

    LayneStaley Well-Known Member

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    I’d argue that IF we land a pick between 6-14, clear room for Simons(who has a higher ceiling), use the TPE on a starting forward, and get away from the iso black hole/no defense ball CJ likes to play that we actually come out on top. Still think we should of insisted on Hayes though.
     
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  10. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    That's great and everything but our future success doesn't happen in a vacuum. This isn't a charity. We can't afford to give away more than we take back by a substantial amount, which is what happened. No team can do that. We should have been diligent to squeeze every last bit of value out of those players possible and when it seems like you got fleeced on the first big trade of the season, nine days out from the deadline... there's just no way that anyone can say that they know we got the best deal possible.

    Then there were a couple of reports from other markets saying that they had "sources" in other team's front offices that say they would have offered a better deal for Norm if given the chance.

    So, yeah the result might mean that we have a better team next season and it better be but we will either have a worse team than we should have had or worse future draft assets available than we should have had.

    Edit: Also, I want to stop hearing people talk about clearing cap room for Ant and Nurk. We have both of their bird rights, we don't need cap room for them. I am hoping when Cronin talks about clearing a runway for Ant's success being important to him, that he was talking about freeing up playing time. If we are going to try and dodge the tax every year and people in here are going to applaud that from a trust worth tens of billions of dollars... I just don't know what to say.
     
  11. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Cronin is operating under the special exception to standard GM practices known as the Damian Lillard Rule. Under this rule, the ONLY thing that matters is putting enough top-end talent around him to compete for a title next season.

    We’ve already seen that the Neil Olshey program of overpaying for mid-level talent doesn’t work. One great player teamed with multiple mid-level guys won’t compete with teams stacked with 2-3 top tier players. Sending out mid-level guys, especially ones with bloated contracts, isn’t going to get you a top-level player (not even a tarnished one like Simmons). Cronin went all-in on what he sees as the only route open to him: using draft picks, cap space and a non-simultaneous trade to try to acquire the player he’s looking for. It’s a big gamble. There’s little doubt that he could have gotten more for the guys he sent out, but most likely they would have returned other mid-level talent and maybe low draft picks.

    The way I see it, Cronin sent out one borderline All-Star and 3 mid-level players and got back three mid-level guys (Hart, Winslow and Ingles), some young prospects, a likely lottery pick, and the cap flexibility he needs to try to make his play. I have no idea if he can pull it off, but he deserves his shot. There’s a reason that the CBA doesn’t actually have a “traded player exception”, but instead provides for “ non-simultaneous trades”. Cronin deserves his chance to complete his deal before he’s evaluated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  12. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    I think you are probably right in that they will couple picks and players for at least one all star type player for the front line. Probably a 2-3 year plan.
     
  13. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    Started to watch Jerami Grant a little closer.
    Last night he was 3-15 (0-6 from deep)
    1 rebound, 1 assist, 1 block in 31 minutes.

    ouch
     
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  14. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    first off, I agree that the Clippers trade was a very poor return. I have heard no good explanation for the rush. The only explanation I heard was Cronin's and I didn't find it credible at all that teams were blackmailing Portland in trade talks because the Blazers were 1.3M over the tax line
    ********************************************

    for me, there's a big difference between 'cap-space' and cap room. Yeah, it's semantics but when I think of cap-room I think of a team operating under realities of the CBA, salary-cap, tax-threshold, and apron. It's a catch-all phrase whereas cap-space is specifically about margin under the season's salary cap. Probably need another term for all that so there's no confusion

    and in that regard, those trades were not about cap-space. They were about 'cap-room'. Right now, the Blazers have around 77-78M in guaranteed salary and dead salary next season (includes Bledsoe's partial and Nicholson). That's for 9 players.

    after that calculation, compare a before and after for those trades (next season). Between Hart, Winslow, Bledsoe, Johnson, and Louzada there is 25.5M in salary. However, between CJ, Powell, & Nance, there is 59.5M in salary. That's a 34M difference, and that's pretty significant

    so, go back to that 77-78M in guarantees and add 34M. That would put Portland at 110-111M in guarantees...for 8 players. That leaves only 34-35M in margin under the tax threshold; and 40-41M under apron. Now, remembering Portland's potential 2 lottery picks, those two picks could be adding 10-15M in salary (the 3rd pick from last year is making 8M this season. The 8th pick is making 5M and the salary cap is increasing 8%)

    so, if you add the two picks, the Blazers have 20-22M in margin under the tax line...for 10 players. And then there are Simons and Nurkic. From what people are saying it sure seems the Blazers would be lucky to sign both for 40M combined next season. Maybe 45M (or more) if they aren't so lucky. Say it's the unluckier 45M; well then the Blazers are 23-25M OVER the tax line and they would still have to sign 2 more players. But, back out that 34M difference in salary between the former players and new ones and the Blazers suddenly have much more flexibility, especially since they've successfully re-set the repeater tax clock

    again, the Clippers trade is highly suspect in the level of return. The Pels trade will be much better, assuming Blazers win the gamble on the 1st round pick. But the sum of both trades had the net effect of basically climbing most of the way out of the hole of stupid that Olshey dug
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
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  15. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he’s trying to lower his trade value so we can get him a little cheaper?
     
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  16. LayneStaley

    LayneStaley Well-Known Member

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    I’m not talking about the Norm deal, I know that was a bad deal. I don’t think the CJ deal is as bad as some around here think. If the pick conveys I don’t think anyone can argue that a lotto pick, a massive TPE, and getting out of his contract was all that bad. If there was a hole at the 2 guard now maybe. This just all seems like maneuvering to set up a Dame trade this summer imo. Simons/Nurk/Little/2 1s/cap space/Dame package seems like Joe’s rebuild plan to me. Even if I’m wrong though and we trade for proven players that TPE and Bledsoe contract will help. I’ll take a lineup with a proven forward in it over the redundancy of Dame/Ant/CJ.
     
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  17. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I understand the theory of a player like Grant. A versatile 2-way forward/wing. But if the theory has a scale of desirability, Grant is pretty low on that scale. I'm not sure why the Blazer front office is so high on him
     
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  18. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    high usage inefficient 20 pt scorer. he's not this supposed 3&d guy that people make him out to be.

    he mighta been in denver but he doesn't want to be that anymore.

    ive been low on him for a while-- his impact is quite similar to norman powell's.
     
  19. LayneStaley

    LayneStaley Well-Known Member

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    It’s settled then, the NOP pick(let’s say #9) and Bledsoe(contract) for Collins.
     
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  20. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    There's no way would New Orleans would have traded 6'11" , 21-year-old , 8th overall pick, Hayes for CJ McCollum or Larry Nance or both of them. Think about it.
     
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