Around the NBA: Maudlin May edition

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, May 2, 2022.

  1. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I agree with everything you're saying and at the same time think that when you are backing away from a brick wall and giving up players that have value, you can't just give those players away. You can subtract salary and talent but in our case where cap space does not equal incoming talent, you have to get draft assets to offset the talent discrepancy. I know you know that and I know you don't think Cronin did a masterful job.

    The trade deadline could have been better and if you're going to pull the trigger on the first trade so early it has to be better and the second trade just needed more contingencies on that first round pick than dropping all the way back to the Bucks pick in 2025 when Giannis will likely be at his apex... especially when they had the possibility that became a reality of the Lakers pick this year, their pick and the better of the Lakers and Pelicans pick next year and the Lakers pick and the better of theirs and the Pelicans pick in 2024 (all first rounders without protections). Those are five opportunities for contingencies, every one of which projects to have better value than what we settled for. That's some shitty negotiating for someone who hasn't even been hired for the job. When Cronin touted the TPE as the biggest asset that we got in the trade (besides the ability that we already had to re-sign our own guys which just pisses me off) he should have been damn sure he had the draft capital needed to capitalize on the TPE and I don't know shit, so maybe he does.

    If we come away from the off season with a nice player drafted with our lotto pick and Jerami Grant without having to guarantee the Bulls pick and dip into our future first rounders, then I'm pretty sure that will be mission accomplished for Cronin... I don't know if that vision that Cronin has for the team actually works but I will shut the fuck up at that point about how much of a failure he was at the deadline. If that TPE and the draft capital that we got in those trades doesn't land us a starting quality player then it was a massive failure on Cronin's part, even if the mandate was to back away from the brick wall no matter what. He got unlucky with the Pels pick but he also put himself in position to be dependent on luck and bet against the value of the player he was sending out. We're still in wait and see mode on if Cronin can somehow pull a rabbit out of his hat while standing in a dumpster fire that he lit but personally I would be very excited if he wasn't allowed that opportunity and was either replaced by a guy like Tayshaun Prince or at least a guy like that was hired to supervise Cronin and make the final decisions.
     
  2. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    they didn't just give them away though:

    * IF Winslow stays healthy he can do as many good things as RoCo. He just doesn't have the perimeter shooting
    * there was no place in the roster for a 6'3 SF; and a backup SG on a 90M deal is a bad idea. Maybe Keon is a good idea
    * the Dame/CJ back court HAD to end
    * Nance is undependable. He simply can't stay healthy and was injured at the time of the trade

    * we really don't know what the market was for the traded players. The only indication we have is for CJ and the reported offers from Atlanta and Dallas sure seem to indicate that CJ didn't have nearly as much value as everybody here hoped

    but you know all that. You also know that it took dumping those players to give Portland a decent chance at a top-4 pick

    I still think all the discontent hinges on two things:

    #1a) the unsupported faith that the players traded had a lot more value than the return

    #1b) the Pels pick not conveying

    you and I have discussed #1b) before. And I've discussed it with other dissatisfied customers here. The consensus is that if that pick had been conveyed, the combo of the 2 trades would have been OK; not great, but acceptable. In other words, the make-or-break point on the trades is the perfect storm of negative factors that fucked Portland out of the 11th pick
     
  3. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    The problem is "not great, but acceptable" shouldn't be good enough to give a guy the permanent GM job if that's the top basketball guy in the organization and that same guy allowed for that perfect storm to not only fuck us out of the 11th pick but also let that pick drop all the way back to the Bucks 2025 first. I just view these obvious shortcomings as signs that Cronin is not the guy for the job or that he needs day to day supervision that is more shrewd or competitive or both.

    *I don't think Winslow's history dictates that he can be as valuable as RoCo even when healthy
    *There is no such thing as a 6'3" SF and I don't think that deal looks that bad for a heavy rotation backup guard. Also maybe Keon is a good idea but that's an awfully big maybe
    *The Dame/CJ back court HAD to end and Nance is undependable, can't seem to stay healthy and was injured at the time of the trade. So while I wouldn't have been over the moon for that trade if the eleventh pick would have conveyed, I also wouldn't be killing it. It did not convey, so yeah, I'm killing that trade.
     
  4. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I think most of those posters, like myself, pushing back against the rabid negativity about the two trades aren't turning around and advocating for Cronin to get the job permanently. I know that I haven't advocated that

    I just don't think the trades, all things considered, are nearly as bad as what some people, including yourself believe

    furthermore, I'm fairly convinced that Cronin likely did very well in the eyes of the Vulcans. As I said, I think the two main priorities out of Seattle were to 1) cut current and future payroll; and 2) dismantle the dead end roster while keeping Dame. I'm of two minds about that, one says those priorities were needed; the other says accomplishing those tasks is probably not the needed resume for the next GM. But the Vulcans may very well disagree

    whether you agree or not I think the best path forward for the Blazers would be a path under new ownership. I am completely unimpressed with Jody Allen and I pretty much detest the Vulcan mindset
     
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  5. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    Yeah I agree with this!
    I believe the Blazers desperately need new ownership but I’m also a little picky about who that might end up being?
    I truly want a competitive person or group on this. Not just rich that wants a toy to play with.
     
  6. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Yes!!!!

     
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  7. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    Good for Terry. Hope he considers it.
     
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  8. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    One team overpaying to retain a guy is not proof said player would be of good value to other teams. I think it's much more likely the LAC realized they couldn't even get one 1st round pick for him (let alone the two Olshey gave up) and they were forced to either overpay or lose him for nothing, something Portland didn't want to do again like they have done with Meyers, Crabbe, etc.

    Also, comparing our moves with the moves of the Clippers, who have an owner willing to go deep into the tax is apples and oranges.
     
  9. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Guess the Lakers aren't interested in playing defense
     
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  10. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    And if my aunt had a dick she’d be my uncle.

    Relying on those players to be healthy is about as likely as Zach Collins being healthy. Or Anthony Davis.
     
  11. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    Well, if he gets the job I’ll have to eat some crow.

    That said, he isn’t getting the job.
     
  12. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    Might be surprised.
     
  13. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    My bet is he’s already been offered the job and it’s his to take if he wants it.
     
  14. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    I highly doubt they’ve formally offered the job to anyone. They’ve interviewed two candidates as far as I know.

    And I bet Woj would’ve said, “The lakers have formally offered the job to Terry Stotts” if that were the case.

    Id also be shocked if they offered the job before interviewing someone like… Darvin Ham.
     
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  15. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    My thinking is the Lakers need a solid tried and true coach right now. Not another project or even questionable option running the team.
    Stotts might not last there but if he gets that job with LeBron and AD they will make the playoffs.
     
  16. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    But they are in making the playoffs
     
  17. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    Time and time again these guys will start talking about Stats and percentages but forget that all means squat if you don’t make the playoffs.
     
  18. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    I agree.
    If Terry is serious about it, he would be a great choice.
    But, I don't know if he REALLY wants that job, or if he has his eyes on Utah.
    Either way, he took a year off, is no doubt refreshed, and it would be cool to see him back running another team.
    He's earned it.
     
  19. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    Yeah that’s another thing. Taking a job with the Lakers is always a pressure pot if things don’t go really well. The Jazz job if it were to become available just seems like it’s more his speed. Problem with the Jazz right now is they are also in a bind players wise. Who knows how that team will look next year?
     
  20. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Hate to break it to you, you being a "Lakers fan", they're not content with losing in the first round.
     
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