Around the NBA Playoffs - Round Two

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by KingSpeed, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus This is what it looks like when a platypus cries. Staff Member Moderator

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  2. tlongII

    tlongII Yes I am smarter than you

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  3. RickyJoe

    RickyJoe Active Member

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    Round 2 is over. Close this thread?
     
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  4. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus This is what it looks like when a platypus cries. Staff Member Moderator

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    Just the Tatum thing in that post. Must I hand you everything on a silver platter?
     
  5. tlongII

    tlongII Yes I am smarter than you

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    Yes.
     
  6. DDolla

    DDolla Well-Known Member

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    So Dwayne Casey fired after 59wins and the number one seed. Stotts is one lucky guy.
     
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  7. AFully22

    AFully22 Well-Known Member

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    There’s not a lot of clear instances of teams firing their coach and sorely regretting it a couple years later. Most the time bringing in new eyes and new energy helps the team whether the past coach was good or not. Toronto did what I was hoping we would do, see that a coach like Budenholzer was on the market and fire a good coach in order to hire a better one with a changed philosophy.

    Playoffs mater. Casey’s in game adjustments and his teams collapse in the playoffs was his ultimate demise. It’s harsh but I think we saw the Raptors ceiling with Casey and that wasn’t good enough for the front office, kudos to them for setting the bar high.
     
  8. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    I have nothing against Stotts but I would love it if the Blazers make the change and hire Budenholzer.
     
  9. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    Better yet...hire Budenholzer and Casey as assistants.
     
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  10. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    I think part of that is we only really remember the teams that are really good that make coaching changes. Is it possible that the coach isn't as important as the players developing? If Steph Curry doesn't transform into an MVP level player does it really matter who the coach was? Could Mark Jackson have led that team to a title that next year? Impossible to answer so I see your point about the new eyes but that team also never missed a beat when Kerr was out with health concerns both regular season and playoffs. George Karl had the Nuggets in the playoffs every year and was fired after winning coach of the year. The Nuggets haven't made the playoffs since.

    I think the greater question is how far can coaching go? Brad Stevens might be having one of the greatest coaching effects of all time this post season but that team isn't going to win the championship this year. He'd need his full compliment of really talented players to have a chance in the Finals. It will be interesting to see how Toronto does next year. I'll tell you this much though, it would take DeRozan and the rest of the team playing a heck of a lot better than they did in the playoffs to proceed further. I don't know if a new coach can get much more out of that team.

    Portland is in a bit of a weird situation. It's possible that hiring someone that is a WAY better playoff coach (Basically a Playoff Coach version of Playoff Rondo) also leads to the Blazers just missing the playoffs because he/she isn't as good with the flow of the regular season and there isn't much separation between teams 3-10 in the West. It's a different sport I know but in 2006 the Chargers fired Marty Schottenheimer coming off a 14-2 season but a disappointing loss in the playoffs. The next year they went 11-5 under Norv Turner and made it all the way to the AFC Championship game. In all but a few years after that they have been pretty mediocre since. A drop off of a few games for the Blazers might result in being on the outside looking in even if they are more equipped for a post season run.

    Now I'm not saying that will for sure happen and that they should just never fire Stotts either. My point is just that it isn't as simple as bringing in a new coach leads to teams taking the next step.
     
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  11. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    I suspect that might be too many Alphas
     
  12. AFully22

    AFully22 Well-Known Member

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    I can agree with that. It definitely takes more than just hiring a new coach too. Like I don’t think there’s any situation in which you can throw Brad Stevens on a mediocre to good team and they will be expected to win it all next year.

    I just think unless you’re willing to make some pretty big roster changes or you can sign a big FA, keeping a coach around that has had years to evaluate, adapt, and make the necessary coaching changes yet has still had the same results in the playoffs is any better of an idea than bringing someone new in.

    Lebron is Lebron, he’s super human. But man that Cavs team is as weak as he’s had since the Eric Snow years and they have some real weaknesses. I don’t think most people would even have them making the WCF if they were in the West. Yet they still swept the Raptors with relative ease after a year where the Raptors changed a ton just to hopefully be a formidable opponent against the Cavs. Seems like they got Casey’s best shot, on a down year for the Cavs, with a deeper roster, and still got swept.

    I can get behind staying the course with a roster to let them develop and become a better team, I’m just not so sure about using the same philosophy with coaches. I don’t think coaches develop quite like players and once you get a pretty clear view of what they got, that’s probably about it. Good coaches can win titles with great rosters, the Raptors (and Blazers) don’t have a great roster and it’s a simpler path to try and bring in who you think is a great coach than it is to keep a good coach and turn a good roster into a great one. If that makes any sense.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  13. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    getting fired takes a lot of alpha outta a coach....whole.lot of head coaches are assistants now....Coach Bud is probably waiting for Pop to retire for his dream job.
     
  14. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that makes total sense and I completely see that point of view. My only issue with it is that unless a proven great coach becomes available you are either hiring a retread (Budenholzer, Casey, Stotts), a college coach that may or may not have success in the NBA (most don't, Stevens is more of an exception), an assistant coach (wild card), or someone with no coaching experience (like a broadcaster or ex-player). It seems to me like you would have to get somewhat lucky. That is why I would be fine with letting Stotts go if there was a succession plan but don't really think he should be fired just to fire him.
     
  15. AFully22

    AFully22 Well-Known Member

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    Yea I don’t think we should fire Stotts for just the sake of change. We could do a lot worse than Coach Stotts. If a guy like Budenholzer wanted the job however I wouldn’t think twice about making the change. There’s not a lot of those type of coaches out there though I agree.
     
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  16. BonesJones

    BonesJones YouTube - TrueBlazerFan

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    I would rather have:
    Jay Wright
    Tony Bennett
    Mike Budenholzer
    Ime Udoka
    Ettore Messina
    Dwayne Casey
    than Terry Stotts.
     
  17. AFully22

    AFully22 Well-Known Member

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    Zach Lowe had some interesting stuff on firing Casey on his podcast that articulates why it makes sense better than I could. Essentially said that based off of results alone, Casey probably shouldn’t be fired but HOW he got the results and his coaching skill set gave reasons to believe they would be better off with a different coach.

    He got the results from being a culture and system coach but when it came to the playoffs he was bad at game management and when it mattered the most his weaknesses were consistently exploited. Which I thought sounded sort of familiar.

    We just had an entire era of really good coaches that excelled in culture and system (Pop, Spo, Carlisle) but are beginning to transition into an era where getting the most out of players through game management and scheme has beaten out those system coaches, unless the talent disparity is just too large. Kind of interesting. I think Steve Kerr was one of the first examples of that although the roster he inherited obviously helped.

    Those are a lot of the same ideas behind why I would move on from Stotts given the right coach is available. Lowe mentioned that the last straw for Casey was probably when he decided to play straight up against Lebron on his game winner in G3. He said once Lebron realized they weren’t even thinking about sending any help he knew it would be one on one against a rookie and he could get to his spot. A coach better at game management would have at least made him think about another defense coming and caused some hesitation from Lebron but the lack of innovation or creativity from Casey allowed Lebron to just focus on beating his man alone. That and a weaker team in the Pacers just won 3 games against Cleveland including one by 30 pts. Cleveland had them figured out and the front office didn’t have confidence in Casey to be able to re invent the wheel AGAIN because his game management would stay the same.
     
  18. BonesJones

    BonesJones YouTube - TrueBlazerFan

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    Sounds exactly like our favorite coach...
     
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  19. AFully22

    AFully22 Well-Known Member

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    Casey and Stotts are different apples from the same tree for sure. What’s interesting about our situation is we need pretty significant upgrades to the roster as well. Which I think actually saved Stotts job, the roster was just bad enough where you can put enough blame on lack of talent.
     
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  20. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    None of these 9 newly-fired ones would be any worse. There must be some who would be better.
     

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