Ayton

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Mediocre Man, Sep 18, 2023.

  1. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Hey...I was lamenting, not complaining!
     
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  2. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    From a value point, you are right. From Toronto's cap space given the new CBA - they are going to be in a problem with OG, Pascal and Barnes all on the roster requiring big deals. There is a reason they let FVV go and replaced him with a cheaper Schroder.

    If they care about Ant at all I am not sure (they do need shooting), but one of Barnes, OG and Pascal will be moved sooner or later. The tax man cometh.
     
  3. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Houston way overpaid for FVV - Masai wasn't matching that deal regardless of how little or big the Raptors payroll is.

    Barnes max will be far cheaper than the others, see Ayton $33 million vs Dame $60 million. So no I don't believe its a certainty the Raptors have to move one of these or make cost cutting moves soon. Barnes extension wouldn't kick in until 3 years form now, and the tax for that roster at the end of such season, quite an eternity in the NBA landscape. Plus the cap is going up these years.

    Regardless none of those dynamics would help the Blazers acquire OG at a discount, that's never been how Masai operates. Blazers would have had to gut their future to bring in an OG level player and they would still have been a non contender with Dame. The current direction is much better.
     
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  4. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    All I am saying is that how Masai operated under the old CBA and how he will operate under the new one might have to change - because the ownership will not be willing to pay so much for a non-championship team.

    So, there is a reason to believe that the Raptors will have to choose 2 of the 3 forwards they have in order to balance to roster / reduce costs. If Ant (or Herro or someone else like him) is the direction they choose to go for or not, I do not know. But, the rules of the game changed for the Raptors as they had for the rest of the league. We already see that with other teams and the cap situation will catch with the Raptors soon as well. It's an important issue to remember.
     
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  5. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I just mentioned OG as the most obvious starting-level SF target. I'm sure other players could fit the bill. Point is, if Nurk/Nas/Ant could have returned something on the level of Ayton/(SF starter), and we could have gone into July with an expected roster of Dame/Thybulle/(Starting SF)/Grant/Ayton backed by Scoot/Sharpe/Murray/(MLE signing), there would have been a lot more optimism across the fan base about this upcoming season.

    It didn't happen, so we are where we are. C'est la vie.
     
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  6. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Something along those lines is what I was hoping for. I suspect Joe was trying for that kind of a makeover, but didn’t find any deals that other GMs were willing to do.
     
  7. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    That's where we disagree; Nurk/NAS/Ant couldn't and still can't return Ayton and a SF starter.
     
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  8. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I still think OG would be a fine compliment to Scoot/Sharpe/Grant.

    He's not that old. If we could somehow swing a trade that sends out Dame/Nurk/filler and get OG/Ayton, that's legit a team that could make some noise.

    Scoot
    Sharpe
    OG
    Grant
    Ayton

    That's a better team than anything we've had in YEARS in terms of balance and length. It would suck that Dame wouldn't get to experience it, but that team is pretty young. There would be time to gel. Who even cares if you have to pay OG. We have Scoot/Sharpe on rookie deals for another 3-4 years.
     
  9. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    not theoretically. He'll get his new contract in 2025. If the cap is at 160M by then, Barnes on a standard max 5-year rookie extension would make 46-47M/year. His max 1st year salary would be 40M. That's a 5-year/232M contract (by the way, a 5 year veteran super-max deal signed with a cap at 160M would be 65M/year....geeeeezuzzzz)

    now, unless he massively improves over the next 2 years, he won't get a max deal. And it's possible the cap won't hit 160M, but if it just continues escalating at the rate of the last couple of seasons it will hit that mark.

    personally, I think Barnes has become overrated around here. He's a fine young player with a solid skill-set but he's lacking the most important skill: shooting efficiency. He's a bad shooter. Still he's likely to get at least 80% of a max deal, maybe more

    the overall point being it's really hard to see Toronto being able to afford all three of Siakam, OG, & Barnes.
     
  10. Samuel

    Samuel James “Hollywood” Robinson

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    I think keon+nas+nurkic works. could throw in a couple of gp2nds.

    Zombie Rotation until a trade:

    Dame / Scoot / Mays

    Ant / Tisse /

    Sharpe / Murray / Rupert

    Grant / Walker / Knox

    Ayton / Reath / Brown
     
  11. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Not that I think that trade would happen, but honestly, that lineup isn't significantly worse than the Heat's lineup.
     
  12. Samuel

    Samuel James “Hollywood” Robinson

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    I don't think this trade would have kept dame pre-draft or pre-free agency, though. It's something in the middle.
     
  13. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    My issue with OG has nothing to do with his level of play or age.

    1. Injury history and future risk
    2. Pending Supermax
    3. Chance he leaves for nothing

    I just don't see trading for him as being beneficial for building a winner in 3-5 years from now as Sharpe/Scoot/etc are in their prime. Much better to get assets such as picks instead. OG will either have left in free agency, be a hobbled injured vet, or be so overpaid we have no flexibility to build out the starting lineup.

    If we were trying to win now with Dame or something perhaps those risks are mitigated by his level of play today. But we don't need any of that play this season, we need it when Scoot/Sharpe are entering their prime.

    It parallels many of the same reasons I never liked the idea of acquiring Jaylen Brown for Dame. Those players make sense to pair with Dame - not replace him.
     
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  14. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Sharpe can't play SF now. When he is in his mid to late 20's yes; but you don't risk injury or worse with a very young player being undersized in the physical NBA. Kevin Durant played SG his rookie year.
     
  15. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Ah, the genius of PJ Carlesimo. Famously, ALL his shooting guards just wanted to throw their arms around him.
     
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  16. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Yeah it'd be nice to get a Lauri type player on top of picks, but that type of player isn't available for Herro and I don't see a team willing to trade for Dame that has picks and a player like that. The market is worse this off-season than it was last summer, partially because of the aggressive moves last off-season.

    I've admittedly been out on Ayton for a while now. Don't like his attitude or mental makeup for a guy on that contract. Maybe he could turn it around, but I would rather use future cap space to accumulate assets so that we can trade for sure things instead of maybes once this core is ready to compete at the highest level. I'm just worried about "not having enough assets" to build around a star point guard.

    For Herro, Portland should probably go after a first round pick. Can always flip that down the line for a player that fits once they have a better feel for what the next iteration of the roster is going to look like. Or, of course, they can draft when the pick comes around. And at this point, it's time for the Mike Schmitz hire to shine through.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
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  17. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    All the more reason to hold off on a Dame trade until the market changes in December or possibly the deadline.
     
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  18. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Luckily (or unluckily), Joe Cronin is in control of what he gets back from trades after he trades Dame... Or at least I think he is.
     
  19. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    I don't see the market changing a whole lot. Going through team by team and trying to dream up a realistic Dame package is depressing. A ton of teams don't have tradeable picks.
     
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  20. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Yeah, that's what happens when OKC owns like half of them.
     

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