Bad news Democrats - 2012 could be worse than 2010

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I think some people don't get it. The house just got 40+ republicans who are not going to toe the party line if it means compromises that end up increasing spending or the debt or taxes. The republican leadership is in no better position than Pelosi was with her blue dog democrats. In fact, the new republicans have the equivalent of a veto over anything passing the House, as long as they stick to their principles. For this reason alone, there is HOPE.

    Not the kind of hope that was sold to us as a bill of goods in 2008.
     
  2. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    You might HOPE for gridlock and lack of progress - in any direction - but that isn't my idea of a good outcome.

    barfo
     
  3. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

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    My hope is that Republicans take a cold hard look at the facts and realize that blocking everything for two years isn't going to fly. No matter how much you "stick to your principles," we need to make some progress on a wide variety of issues.

    I hope they take a page from the Republicans of the mid-90's and go after a major program that's really due for an overhaul much like welfare was back then. The obvious one is tax law. There are lots and lots of ways to simplify our existing tax code that are completely revenue neutral and don't drastically alter upper, middle and lower classes overall tax obligations.

    As a small business owner, I spend thousands of dollars every year and way too many hours of my time trying to comply with tax law. Not to mention the nightmare of my personal taxes. It's such a massive drain on our economy.

    I just want to see both parties not make some Big Ideological Stand about supply side economics or income redistribution or whatever, and just fucking simplify it. Or go with a sales tax and close up much of the IRS. Or whatever. Just make it so I pay right about what I do now in taxes, but only fill out 3 pages of forms (that I can do myself) instead of 100 that I have to hire accountants to organize for me.
     
  4. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Yes. Of course, the tax accountants have lobbyists too, so that won't happen. But I'd love to see it. I'd happily pay to the IRS the tens of thousands of dollars that I pay for tax advice now if they would make it simpler and thus cheaper to file tax returns. My corporate tax returns are a stack of paper about 18" tall now. Who knows what's in there, no one has time or patience to actually read them (including the IRS, I'd guess).

    barfo
     
  5. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

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    Damn. 18 inches of paper. I thought I had it bad, but mine's "only" about 2 or 3 inches. Still more than I care to even try to understand.

    I bet if I took my records to three different accountants they'd come up with three drastically different numbers that I owe/will get in return. And all of them would be technically correct. Just enrages me.

    I'm actually so fed up over this that I'd probably vote for a Republican president if he/she wasn't a Sarah Palin-esque airhead and could deliver on drastically simplifying the tax code.
     
  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I don't know that tax simplification is necessarily a Republican issue - although if they made it one I agree I'd be more favorably inclined towards them.

    barfo
     
  7. BGrantFan

    BGrantFan Suspended

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    What if the GOP House passs legislation, and the Dems in the Senate block it? Or what if the GOP House passes legislation, the Dem Senate passes it because they fear another asskicking in 2012, and then Obama vetoes it?

    Then who is blocking legislation? There is no GOP "blocking" in the House once the new House is sworn into leadership. That excuse is over.
     
  8. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

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    I don't think it's really an issue for either party. They are both so entrenched in ruts about supply side economics and tax breaks for every pet project that neither sees the forest for the trees.

    Not everything has to be a battle to the death. Sometimes there are things that everybody can agree on, so we should just fucking do them. Practically every American thinks our tax code could be drastically simplified. So get on with it.

    To me it seems a more natural platform for the Republican party than the Democrats. They could easily peddle tax simplification as a stimulus program, because it truly would be. It'd free a lot of Americans to go out and spend their time and money on doing things of real value for our economy. And if done properly it wouldn't add a penny to our deficit. In fact it could decrease it by simplifying the regulation and enforcement of tax law.
     
  9. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

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    That's a valid point. I should've phrased it differently. My hope is that Republicans and Democrats both take a cold hard look at the facts and realize that coming up with a bunch of shit that'll never pass for two years isn't going to fly.

    There are just too many fucked up things with this country to consider gridlock "victory."
     
  10. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Agreed, but a good chunk of those just elected, as Denny will tell you, consider gridlock orgasmic.

    barfo
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I don't see it as gridlock, I see it as a bunch of guys who aren't neo-cons pushing the republicans in a new direction, hopefully a better one.

    My point was that unlike Pelosi's House, and the Republican House before that, the Party Machine isn't going to be able to steamroller its agenda through. Republicans needed 39 seats to gain control of the House, but even with the extra seats they gained, there's still enough of the Tea Party representatives to block that sort of thing.

    The House under Pelosi and Republicans before that would pass all sorts of "out there" legislation that never even gets considered in the Senate. Like Cap and Trade.

    Progress doesn't mean more government, more spending, more taxes, and ever increasing debt. In fact, I'd argue there hasn't been progress but the reverse. By measures that are important to main street, unemployment is way up, home values are way down, foreclosures have wiped out peoples' life savings, etc.
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    See, there's progress after all!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/10/white-house-gives-in-on-bush-tax-cuts_n_781992.html

    WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's top adviser suggested to The Huffington Post late Wednesday that the administration is ready to accept an across-the-board, temporary continuation of steep Bush-era tax cuts, including those for the wealthiest taxpayers.

    That appears to be the only way, said David Axelrod, that middle-class taxpayers can keep their tax cuts, given the legislative and political realities facing Obama in the aftermath of last week's electoral defeat.
     

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