Baron Davis, Andris Biedrins, Filler for Allen Iverson DONE DEAL?

Only way I would even accept trading Beans is if it were for a bonafide star big man like Yao, KG, JO etc. I might even pass on a guy like Bosh! I mean how can you argue with his stats he had the other night.

 

<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Worst. Trade rumor. EVAR. If anyone was watching the game last night and thought "What we need here is AI in place of Biedrins" they need to not only be removed from their job, but removed from society. Who knows, maybe the Sixers leaked it to better their position with other teams.</div>

...yep,any GM who'd dump a 20 yr old rising star C to get the declining 2 1/2 yrs of a big ego/big salary G off a last place team has to be in a padded space with no sharp or pointy objects. I don't like Baron for AI,I want to proceed with Operation Nellie,see what ALL our guys can do. If Barnes can have a superstar game....maybe other W's can do even better.

 

I heard on a few other board that the filler for AI would likely be Monta Ellis. Philly sources must be talking out of their ass, because if we trade Ellis and Baron, our only pass first point guard, is Keith McLeod, and he makes Derek Fisher look like Jesus. We are left with no center but Foyle and Hunter, and we are back in the lottery for the next 5 years. The trade is BS.

 

Now, if Philly wants Murphy, Dunleavy and filler, then let's chat, eh?

 

<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Now, if Philly wants Murphy, Dunleavy and filler, then let's chat, eh?</div>

Hell, we don't even need to chat about that. I would just do it. But I'd rather get rid of Murphy and Foyle. Dunleavy can help this team (not salary wise obviously).

 

I dislike Dunleavy most of the time, but most people can see the value he can bring to teamwork, despite not even being able to post up Mike Bibby!

If he plays efficient and puts others in a position to score easily, he's much like any other glue guy on a good game such as Doug Christie, older Grant Hill, and Mike Miller. But everyone knows Dunleavy sucks so bad at shooting he won't make those sorts of plays if defenders are sagging off him and covering other teammates more closely. Hard to operate if he cannot take advantage of his size or his supposedly "pure shooting" skills. 75% or below free throw shooting makes me believe he's sort of a mental midget for a pure shooter who used to average above 44% from the field until signing big money.

 

I know stats only tell a small part of the "picture" but damn, look at this:

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607GSWP.HTM

Even these stats agree with us about Murphy, the dude kills the team. He has a negative with every single player on the team!

Warriors are 4-0 without Murphy.

Think about it...

 

This is not any type of rumor but what do you guys think about a trade like this


Golden State Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
14.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 34.0 minutes
Incoming
Mike Sweetney
6-8 PF from Georgetown
8.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: -5.9 ppg, -4.7 rpg, and -0.5 apg.


Chicago Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
P.J. Brown
6-11 PF from Louisiana Tech
9.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 31.8 minutes
Ben Gordon
6-3 SG from Connecticut
16.9 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 31.1 minutes
Mike Sweetney
6-8 PF from Georgetown
8.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.6 minutes
Incoming
Allen Iverson
6-0 PG from Georgetown
33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg in 43.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: -1.0 ppg, -12.1 rpg, and +2.3 apg.


Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Allen Iverson
6-0 PG from Georgetown
33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg in 43.0 minutes
Incoming
Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
14.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 34.0 minutes
P.J. Brown
6-11 PF from Louisiana Tech
9.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 31.8 minutes
Ben Gordon
6-3 SG from Connecticut
16.9 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 31.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: +6.9 ppg, +16.8 rpg, and -1.8 apg.


It works salary cap wise.

 

Heh, Mike Sweetney would probably never play for Nelly unless it is at center... but the dude has an inside game with solid footwork, good hands, and can rebound. Guy just has no skill for power forward type of game, where the power forward should be able to take somebody off the drive and shoot face up from spots deeper than midrange. Big guy doesn't have to be that great of a ballhandler, but he can't be an undersized, out of weight guy with no range, or else he takes away the role from center. PF position is like a blend of wing skills with post player skills. Most teams should have two "center" like bodies that can patrol the paint together. Sweetney has a good body bulk/strength and long arms, but he's just so suited towards the halfcourt because he is not fast. Ike Diogu would outhustle him.

St.Jean was high on Sweetney in the 2003 draft. Good player, but him "owning" our frontline lineup while out of shape when he was with New York is no grand achievement.

 

Isn't his contract expiring? I'd let Murphy go for cap space.

 

SWEETNEY? you gotta be kidding. A fast break with big ol' Sweets rolling in abot 15 sec later...yeah,great.

Go back...watch a tape of the GSW-Utah game. Make a wish Murphy plays like that every time. Blow out all the candles. Done. reboot.

Or...you could just guess that if Nellie can take Barnes-make him have a KG type stat line,then he can add a few things to Murphy. THEN,when he is CLEARLY worth more than some generic tall guy...that's when you sell.

That plus-minus junk is so abstract,it's like saying if there is a Repuplican in the White House the Pistons will have a good year.

 

<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That plus-minus junk is so abstract,it's like saying if there is a Repuplican in the White House the Pistons will have a good year.</div>

Doesn't it reflect the production of a player in relation to who he plays with? It's not an exact science but I think it does provide some interesting data, to digest objectively, of course. But I could be wrong.

 

<div class="quote_poster">ryanfish Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">This is not any type of rumor but what due you guys think about a trade like this


Golden State Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
14.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 34.0 minutes
Incoming
Mike Sweetney
6-8 PF from Georgetown
8.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: -5.9 ppg, -4.7 rpg, and -0.5 apg.


Chicago Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
P.J. Brown
6-11 PF from Louisiana Tech
9.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 31.8 minutes
Ben Gordon
6-3 SG from Connecticut
16.9 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 31.1 minutes
Mike Sweetney
6-8 PF from Georgetown
8.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.6 minutes
Incoming
Allen Iverson
6-0 PG from Georgetown
33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg in 43.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: -1.0 ppg, -12.1 rpg, and +2.3 apg.


Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Allen Iverson
6-0 PG from Georgetown
33.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 7.4 apg in 43.0 minutes
Incoming
Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
14.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 34.0 minutes
P.J. Brown
6-11 PF from Louisiana Tech
9.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 31.8 minutes
Ben Gordon
6-3 SG from Connecticut
16.9 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 31.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: +6.9 ppg, +16.8 rpg, and -1.8 apg.


It works salary cap wise.</div>

The Warriors get screwed with Sweetney, so is it more a salary dump? I can't see him as being an upgrade at PF. He doesn't fit Nellie's scheme.

And Chicago sure has to give up a lot to get Iverson. They're giving up a C, SG and PF for Iverson.

Philly seems to get the best of this deal, but they end up taking Murphy's contract .

 

Man Sweetney would have been an okay player if he could get that weight problem under control. 6'8 270 lbs is heavier than most centers. LOL. Not too good for him if he was kind of slow to begin with. But he's got the bulk, footwork, hands, wingspan, and he's hardworking when at a lighter weight. Too bad for him. Another big college post player to failed/failing undersized nba power forward. The gamble wasn't bad, it just didn't pay off this time for the guy that wanted a solid post contributor. Same thing going on with the team that wanted Sean May about a few picks earlier than he should have gone. Not explosive at all, but solid. He's doing well now, but is Charlotte winning games and what is his ceiling?

Oh crap looks like Charlotte won. I guess he must be doing something right in the middle.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Same thing going on with the team that wanted Sean May about a few picks earlier than he should have gone. Not explosive at all, but solid. He's doing well now, but is Charlotte winning games and what is his ceiling?

Oh crap looks like Charlotte won. I guess he must be doing something right in the middle.</div>

I take it you can't wait for Diogu to come back huh?

 

<div class="quote_poster">AnimeFANatic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I take it you can't wait for Diogu to come back huh? </div>

Yeah, I hate outside jumpers and love inside finishes. Give me a bruiser who could have played football if he wanted, to back down somebody in the post or take all that contact at the rim and still make the shot go in. That's my kind of game and my kind of player.

 

<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Doesn't it reflect the production of a player in relation to who he plays with? It's not an exact science but I think it does provide some interesting data, to digest objectively, of course. But I could be wrong.</div>

It seems if you play a lot of mins on a loser you'd get a minus.

All the same,after 50 yrs watching the game-I know what the conventional stats tell me-and what they can't show. I can look at a game like our win over utah this year,and safely conclude Murphy CAN play D,and can produce and win. There were games last year where Murphy demonstrated ability to win matchups with star PF's. That Murphy CAN win a matchup with Dirk or Duncan HAS been proven--so the thing to look at is why is this not typical.

As to the initial thing....Iverson is a 30 shot a game guy...shooting 41%. He is a temporary celebrity who might sell tickets but can not be a cornerstone beyond the short term. We really don't NEED shooters. We don't need older and more expensive. We don't need a bunch of Gangsta posturing and entourages. I'd turn down a Baron for Iverson deal. Biedrens? Philly does not have enough assets to get him-period.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, I hate outside jumpers and love inside finishes. Give me a bruiser who could have played football if he wanted, to back down somebody in the post or take all that contact at the rim and still make the shot go in. That's my kind of game and my kind of player.</div>

I do really appreciate that package,and Ike in particular. Still,you look around and the big who can pop from 3 and do other things like rebound,pass-is valued. Okur,Brad Miller are no big deal on D and don't score a lot off inside power stuff. Some bigs like Chandler,Dalembert,Kwame,Pryz,have little offense at any range. A lot of fans seem to think we can just round up 3 or 4 Olajuwon clones and not have to deal with a guy who's good at 4 skills-below average at 2. That,however...is par for the course. We don't have the Budget for a full set of do-it-all superstars....even if we could get them.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Warriorfansnc93 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Only way I would even accept trading Beans is if it were for a bonafide star big man like Yao, KG, JO etc. I might even pass on a guy like Bosh! I mean how can you argue with his stats he had the other night.</div>

It is hypothetical but the list---Dwight Howard,LeBron,Yao....only.

As good as KG,O"Neal,Ducnan are....they are all mega $ and FAR older. I LIKE the idea of having our C spot an asset for 10-15 years. I do NOT want us drafting Todd Fuller/Vic Alexander/Tellis Frank/Chris Washburn because we are desperate for a C. I do not want to see a W's starter who'd remind me of Felton Spencer.

The C spot is why the Warriors have struggled so long,It's been a bumpy ride like lovin' a fat lady on a waterbed-not something I'd repeat.