Good to see you AlleyOop. I agree Baron can be overrated simply because of his asking price and how he just goes Stevie Francis out on the court, pounding the ball and jacking up terrible shots. Baron's only saving grace was he took very good care of the ball, he was a 20ppg scorer (although inefficient, but skilled nonetheless) and made guys like Biedrins better. I typically believe if you're going for a franchise max point guard nearing his 30's, he better shoot the hell out of the ball and start running better plays because once that athleticism or durability goes down, he'll stop driving the ball out of fear of risking their health. Baron and Nelson also don't have much discipline or structure in their playsets, so when they can't find anything inside, they don't know what to do but jack up awful stuff. No backdoors, no cuts, no screens, no nothing, we sub out Biedrins and bring in another tall small forward that can't rebound or score inside... awful halfcourt game those two. It's probably the worst way to use a guy like Monta Ellis whose bread and butter is the midrange game and Biedrins who kills in the pick and roll. I say to Baron good riddance. He doesn't feel like a franchise guy or a championship guard, he's all about the money and he's great not enough like Kobe Bryant to get away with it. That's the player he's looking like right now. Our big problem is that good pure point guards that can also score and play defense are as hard as finding the 20/10 big man who can also defend and pass... And looking at the guards we drafted, we'll probably play very little defense over the next few years. I'm just wondering how we can not suck as bad as years before or teams like Memphis/Minnesota right now. Portland and Utah (after Malone) seemed to have the only game plan that makes sense. Right now, I'm wondering if we're going to return to mediocrity...
Well what should we do guys? Should we try to use FA money and try to go after Arenas? Or would Arenas be too difficult to build around? I think he'd be too difficult, frankly. Hmmm... What if we go the route and pick up a backup/starting point guard like Beno Udrih or Earl Watson and go for a few interesting role players like James Jones or Antoine Wright. If we want a fringe star, albeit injury/turnover prone, how about Corey Maggette if he opts out? Or what about Elton Brand? Brand would be a definite building block that can play now. If we don't want that what about Ricky Davis? We've got to fill up 20ppg somehow... Hopefully at a more efficient level than Baron Davis (from 3 point land and at the foul line). I kind of want this lineup, although we probably couldn't hold onto the ball to save our lives... pg: Monta Ellis / re-sign CJ Watson sg: Corey Maggette / Ricky Davis sf: Stephen Jackson / Ricky Davis pf: Brandan Wright / Al Harrington c: Andris Biedrins / Kosta Perovic / Anthony Randolph (should grow to 6'11 and could be a Zarko Cabarkapa or Jonathan Bender) Maybe we can do something where we can also sign on Ricky Davis so we have a sixth man type of player or a starter if Mags goes down. I think we can be a decent team as long as we have that scoring ability and Sjax there to spread the floor and make passes. When we didn't have Sjax there for the first 8 games or so we really did suck... We need scoring and guys who can also play defense. So far those two guys that I can think of are Mags and Ricky D. They might not cost a fortune and both are pretty decent from the foul line and they're good rebounding and defensively. The problem is we'd have too many small forwards and both aren't the pure shooting type who can hit 3's from anywhere. But I like those two players a lot. If we can't win with our stars, we win with depth and guys who can close out games like Mags, Sjax, and Davis.
Hey there CR2 -- well, I don't see GS returning to mediocrity. I think Monta and Biedrins are ready to take on more leadership. I think Baron has been great in Oakland, and I'll be happy if he returns with a financially sensible deal, but honestly its' frustrating because at times he's SO about himself. It takes away from the chemistry, teamwork and synergy of 5 guys trying to link up on the court. He has made other players better at times, but at other times he's let his ego come before just the plain old sensible team-game, college style. The Warriors need a solid point guard. There is no question. But, in some ways, with a good pass-first PG, the team will be better without Baron. Nellie is Nellie. he knows how to work his magic. This squad has become so much better under his system, and that will carry on to whomever he chooses as his successor. The Warriors need a PG who will link up with Nellie and maximize all of this ridiculous talent the Warriors have stockpiled: Andris Biedrins Monta Ellis Brandan Wright Marco Belinelli Richard Hendrix Kosta Perovic Anthony Randolph This is a long list of prospects and potential stars. With the extra cap space, the Warriors can re-sign all of their players, plus they can make an offer to a guy like Jose Calderon. Heck, maybe they'll make an offer to Elton Brand! The other thing is that it looks like there are very few teams who even have the cap space to sign Baron. Which makes his decision even stranger. We could see him at the end of the summer begging the Warriors to take him back for pennies. Strange.
What about skimping on the point guard for now and just fly with Ellis, CJ Watson as floor leaders? If we put the money in swingman scorers who can capitalize on isolations and defend the big positions, I'll be happy. I mean nbdl all-stars like Azu and no-basketball-iq Pietrus could use an upgrade. We would get a starter and a great bench guy that can start and they will actually help Monta, CJ out because they can score and defend the bigger positions. Plus, we get a rebounding upgrade from those two since both play a little like Jrich and Pietrus. Our style might be geared towards isolations in the halfcourt with Maggette hoping to get fouled and Ricky D trying to penetrate to the hoop. Plus, Ricky D and Ellis would pack excellent midrange games. Mags would provide the the 80% foul shooter that we desperately need and he plays a power guard type role. I think it might be worth a shot if it can be done. We could always trade one of the 2 if we got one too many swingmen. Plus, Hendrix could be a sleeper if he's anything remotely similar to Carlos Boozer.
Those are some cold words, CR2, but I generally agree with you. I don't see Baron taking this team deep into the playoffs for a variety of reasons gone over many times, ans at $17M+ per year he puts a chokehold on whatever plan there might be to take that next step. Of course I also fear the return to mediocrity, but Ellis and Biedrins and Wright are a long way from Dunleavy and Murphy and Todd Fuller and Danny Fortson and Vonteego Cummings and Rony Seikaly and Andrew DeClercq and David Wood and Adonal "I still think you're a great human being" Foyle and all those other crap "character" and "IQ" Warriors who just flat out could not play modern NBA ball. Those 3 are the core and we still have SJax, and the new draftees who look like they may have promise but who knows. Harrington should go. You take Baron and Al's salaries off the books and that's something like $26 million to play with, with more coming next year after Foyle's payout ends. That should buy you a couple real solid pieces plus room for a few hole-fillers (Azubuike?) I still maintain Monta is not, and will probably not ever be a starting NBA PG, and we all know what happens to teams with mediocre point guards, so who do they go after if they have the cash? While I'm a little afraid, I'm generally optimistic about it. But is Nellie going to want to play babysitter? His time is running out and I suspect not. EDIT: While Arenas is tempting, I think you are right, just too difficult to make it work, but I would definitely look at Earl Watson.
I actually think of this positively as well, because as long as we keep Ellis and Biedrins, we have 2 fairly good pieces that we can easily build around, plus we have a stockpile of prospects. Maybe it's not pre-Garnett Celtics level, but there's good trade bait in there especially if they show flashes (enough to make other GM's bite). Interesting 2009 FA's, a lot of them definitely aging players, but still probably plenty enough talent in 2 years time if we keep a good core: Shawn Marion Lamar Odom Mike Bibby Allen Iverson Jason Kidd Rasheed Wallace Andre Miller plus a bunch of restricted FA's, basically the 2005 draftees, I expect most of them to be extended. Depending on what shakes down on the rest of this year's summer as far as cap space and what FA's we may or may not get, there's reasonable chances to try to offer/outbid on Danny Granger, Marvin Williams, Charlie Villanueva, David Lee, Andrew Bogut, Channing Frye or Raymond Felton. Some may be well out of our reach or may have high bids on em, but if we play the cap space right, the Warriors may be one of the few teams in the hunt for them at the least. *Edit: Thinking of this year, it's too bad Toronto will put all of its investment into Calderon. He would have been an excellent pickup, but basically impossible to get now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HiRez @ Jul 1 2008, 02:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Those are some cold words, CR2, but I generally agree with you. I don't see Baron taking this team deep into the playoffs for a variety of reasons gone over many times, ans at $17M+ per year he puts a chokehold on whatever plan there might be to take that next step. Of course I also fear the return to mediocrity, but Ellis and Biedrins and Wright are a long way from Dunleavy and Murphy and Todd Fuller and Danny Fortson and Vonteego Cummings and Rony Seikaly and Andrew DeClercq and David Wood and Adonal "I still think you're a great human being" Foyle and all those other crap "character" and "IQ" Warriors who just flat out could not play modern NBA ball. Those 3 are the core and we still have SJax, and the new draftees who look like they may have promise but who knows. Harrington should go. You take Baron and Al's salaries off the books and that's something like $26 million to play with, with more coming next year after Foyle's payout ends. That should buy you a couple real solid pieces plus room for a few hole-fillers (Azubuike?) I still maintain Monta is not, and will probably not ever be a starting NBA PG, and we all know what happens to teams with mediocre point guards, so who do they go after if they have the cash? While I'm a little afraid, I'm generally optimistic about it. But is Nellie going to want to play babysitter? His time is running out and I suspect not. EDIT: While Arenas is tempting, I think you are right, just too difficult to make it work, but I would definitely look at Earl Watson.</div> Ah HiRez... I'm Cold? What was cold was Baron abandoned the Warriors and he got selfish as most millionaire athletes do. He wants all this money, and meanwhile we still weren't a good team until Sjax came back from suspension earlier this year. I don't trust Baron is worth the max when that happens. Plus, he can't stay healthy. I ain't cold, Baron is cold for opting out. Me think he doesn't trust his own body and will get as much money as he can from any organization willing to pay his price so he can fund his personal empire. It's now all about who Mullin can realistically pursue to add veteran leadership, scoring ability, and defense in the same package. I say go for the veterans that are still capable of putting up 20 ppg, can run the floor, and stay on their assignment. Preferably guys who won't interfere with the youth movement. So that means very good swingmen who are really worth it (none of this overpaying or trading for stiffs or washed up guys).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zhone @ Jul 1 2008, 02:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I actually think of this positively as well, because as long as we keep Ellis and Biedrins, we have 2 fairly good pieces that we can easily build around, plus we have a stockpile of prospects. Maybe it's not pre-Garnett Celtics level, but there's good trade bait in there especially if they show flashes (enough to make other GM's bite). Interesting 2009 FA's, a lot of them definitely aging players, but still probably plenty enough talent in 2 years time if we keep a good core: Shawn Marion Lamar Odom Mike Bibby Allen Iverson Jason Kidd Rasheed Wallace Andre Miller plus a bunch of restricted FA's, basically the 2005 draftees, I expect most of them to be extended. Depending on what shakes down on the rest of this year's summer as far as cap space and what FA's we may or may not get, there's reasonable chances to try to offer/outbid on Danny Granger, Marvin Williams, Charlie Villanueva, David Lee, Andrew Bogut, Channing Frye or Raymond Felton. Some may be well out of our reach or may have high bids on em, but if we play the cap space right, the Warriors may be one of the few teams in the hunt for them at the least.</div> Those are some good older players, but yeah we need some of that 2005 draft class. We would probably want to avoid the 2006 and 2007 draft classes as those weren't that good (still yet to be determined, though). I think if we want to capitalize early we find the guys who can play offense and defense and sneak in another guy that can score and pass. I think we're beyond the need to get character-only guys. So no Popeye Jones for us. Andre Miller is pretty underrated, I'd take him, although he frustrates me with his lack of shot range and his missed free throws. We already got Ellis for that. Getting Marion would be nice, just as long as he doesn't cost the max. Bibby would be a nice backup point by then if Monta Ellis has already surpassed him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HiRez @ Jul 1 2008, 02:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>but Ellis and Biedrins and Wright are a long way from Dunleavy and Murphy and Todd Fuller and Danny Fortson and Vonteego Cummings and Rony Seikaly and Andrew DeClercq and David Wood and Adonal "I still think you're a great human being" Foyle and all those other crap "character" and "IQ" Warriors who just flat out could not play modern NBA ball.</div> Classic. Don't forget Chris Porter, Bill Curley and Adam Keefe. But shoot, maybe we'll make a run a LeBron next year? The cap space is going to be large if we can do reasonable deals with Monta/Biedrins. Here is Chad Ford's list of top FAs: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Group I: Unrestricted free agents 1. Elton Brand, Clippers: Brand's decision to opt out of his contract with the Clippers took everyone by surprise. I spoke with two Clippers sources in the last 48 hours before the deadline and they both said there was no way he is opting out. Brand says he wants to re-sign with the Clippers and the most likely scenario is the Clippers re-upping Brand with a long-term deal. The only other real play that Brand has is with the Sixers. They could offer him a deal starting at $12.4 million per year. However, most likely, he'll return to LA with a long-term deal. 2. Gilbert Arenas, Wizards: Arenas has turned himself into a max player over the past few years and, despite recent knee troubles, will likely cash in on his newfound celebrity status. While he continues to maintain publicly that his first choice is to re-sign with Washington, it's possible that, given his eccentricity, he could change his mind. The biggest issue for Arenas is the same one that plagues all the free agents: Who else has the money to pay him? I can't see the 76ers or Grizzlies spending the cash. The Clippers would have interest, but Arenas already spurned them once. 3. Baron Davis, Warriors: Davis also shocked the world by opting out of his contract on Monday evening. He's in a difficult spot. As of this weekend, the two sides were still very far apart on the starting numbers of his contract. It sounds like Davis wouldn't mind moving on if he can't get a big deal and I wonder if the Warriors wouldn't mind reciprocating. They have a young player in Monta Ellis who could take over for Davis at the 1. They also could be far under the cap this summer if Davis is dropped. That could free them up to pursue anyone ... including Gilbert Arenas. If Davis wants to return to Golden State, he's going to have to lower his sights. The Warriors (we hope) aren't stupid and aren't going to break the bank for him. 4. Corey Maggette, Clippers: Maggette has been on the trading block for years and appears eager to bolt the Clippers. He's making $7 million next season and should be due a raise. Teams will be out in force trying to get him, but most will have only the midlevel exception to offer -- which would mean he'd be taking a pay cut. A sign-and-trade is the most likely option, with the Phoenix Suns looking like the team most interested in him. They could offer a swap of Leandro Barbosa that may interest L.A. 5. DeSagana Diop, Nets: He's only 25, but five points and five boards are about all you're going to get from him. Still, he's big and he plays good defense … meaning some team will blow its midlevel exception on him. I think Dallas is the front-runner to give him a ridiculous deal. 6. Beno Udrih, Kings: The Kings were impressed enough with his play that they felt no remorse in letting Mike Bibby go. But will they be able to keep him? As the only decent unrestricted point guard on the market, Udrih is drawing a lot of interest. Expect him to get multiple offers for the full midlevel from a number of teams desperate for a point guard. I'd put the Clippers at the top of the list. 7. Kurt Thomas, Spurs: He's 35 years old, but still tough enough to help just about any title contender. The Spurs got him in a steal of a deal at the trade deadline. Look for them to try to lock him up with a three-year deal this summer. 8. James Posey, Celtics: Posey helped himself with a strong performance against the Lakers in the Finals. He's another player who should get a three- to four-year midlevel deal somewhere. 9. Mickael Pietrus, Warriors: No one is sure why the Warriors didn't play Pietrus more. He's one of the most athletic defenders in the league and he's a solid 3-point shooter. Some team will pick him up and try to use him in a Bruce Bowen-type role. 10. Ricky Davis, Heat: The talented but troubled swingman hasn't helped his cause in his second tour with Miami. Pat Riley thought, after dumping him the first time, that Davis finally had the maturity to play for him. But Riley is clearly reassessing the situation. Davis looks like a midlevel-or-below type of player. I doubt he returns to the Heat. Other notables: Kwame Brown, Grizzlies, Shaun Livingston, Clippers; Brent Barry, Spurs; Bostjan Nachbar, Nets; Carlos Arroyo, Magic; Chris Duhon, Bulls; Eduardo Najera, Nuggets; Matt Barnes, Warriors; Alonzo Mourning, Heat; Gerald Green, Rockets; Patrick O'Bryant, Warriors; Jason Williams, Heat; Juwan Howard, Mavs; Jarvis Hayes, Pistons; Robert Horry, Spurs; James Jones, Blazers; Michael Finley, Spurs; Jannero Pargo, Hornets; Damon Stoudamire, Spurs; Sam Cassell, Celtics; Jamaal Magloire, Nets; Kareem Rush, Pacers; Gordan Giricek, Suns; Michael Doleac, Timberwolves; Francisco Elson, Sonics; Keyon Dooling, Magic; Quinton Ross, Clippers; Antoine Wright, Mavericks; Fred Jones, Knicks; Juan Dixon, Pistons; Maurice Evans, Magic; Primoz Brezec, Raptors; Anthony Johnson, Kings; Tyronn Lue, Kings; Theo Ratliff, Pistons; Adonal Foyle, Magic; Sebastian Telfair, Timberwolves; Kirk Snyder, Timberwolves. Group II: Restricted free agents Only six first-round draft picks from the 2004 draft were signed to extensions last fall. That means there will be some serious young talent available this summer. These players' restricted status still makes it likely they'll stay with their current teams, but at least they'll be in play: 1. Andre Iguodala, Sixers: Iguodala's decision to turn down a $57 million deal last summer is tough to justify. At the time, the Sixers appeared to be the only team with significant cap room; I'm not sure where he thought his next paycheck would come from. He had a great regular season, but a woeful postseason has put his stock back in check. He's coveted by the Grizzlies, but the chances of them prying him away from Philly look very slim. 2. Josh Smith, Hawks: On talent and potential, Smith should be on top of this list. He's a freakish athlete who can score, rebound and block shots. What holds him back is a questionable attitude. Nonetheless it appears the Hawks have to re-sign him. Given the Hawks' ownership woes, Smith is one of the few restricted free agents a team with cap space may try to pluck away -- the same way the Hawks did with Joe Johnson a few years ago. I could see the Sixers making a run at him. 3. Emeka Okafor, Bobcats: Okafor turned down $13 million per season to hit free agency this summer. He's not the best player on this list, but he's the best young center on the market. Still, there's no guarantee he'll get more money from another team. I'm sure the Grizzlies will be interested, but they know the Bobcats will match. I don't see him going anywhere, but a sign-and-trade isn't out of the question here if the negotiations go on too long. 4. Jose Calderon, Raptors: Calderon played at an All-Star level this past season. When T.J. Ford went down with injuries, he became the leader of the Raptors and proved to be the best true point guard on the free-agent market. The Raptors say they'll match any offer for Calderon and I believe them -- especially now that they've agreed to a trade with the Pacers that will ship T.J. Ford to Indiana. As it stands now, he's their only point guard. Still, don't be shocked if the Sixers make a big offer to him. They need a long-term replacement for Andre Miller and I hear Sixers GM Ed Stefanski is a big fan. 5. Luol Deng, Bulls: Everyone loves Deng's talent, but so do the Bulls. At least they used to. Injuries and a poor season have hurt his value around the league. Still, it's hard to see the Bulls not matching any offer Deng gets next summer. He declined a $57.5 million extension in October, so if he makes more than that he'll come out ahead. It will be interesting to see if the budget-conscious Bulls will take advantage of the market conditions and offer him much less. 6. Andris Biedrins, Warriors: Biedrins didn't get the lucrative contract offer that several others did. He was looking for something in the five-year, $50 million range and got an offer that was reportedly substantially lower. Biedrins falls a little bit into the Anderson Varejao category -- energetic big man whose stats don't tell the whole story in terms of on-court contributions. Given that he continues to improve and he's only 21 years old, it's hard to believe the Warriors wouldn't match an offer. 7. Monta Ellis, Warriors: He's young and he can score. But his restricted status is going to hurt him. No team has the money to offer him more than the midlevel, and he probably feels as though he's worth considerably more than that. He's a player who may be better off taking the one-year tender from the Warriors so that he can be an unrestricted free agent in 2009. 8. Josh Childress, Hawks: Childress doesn't get nearly the respect or hype of many of his teammates in Atlanta, but he's been a devastatingly effective sixth man and who might still be expendable given all of Atlanta's wing talent. He probably can't get more than a midlevel deal on this market, but he'd be a bargain at that price. 9. Ben Gordon, Bulls: Of all the players who turned down lucrative contract extensions last summer, Gordon made the most mind-boggling decision. He turned down a five-year, $50 million deal that seemed above market value on a down season. For him to recoup that money this summer seems almost impossible … and now that the Bulls have added Larry Hughes to the mix, it's no longer clear where Gordon fits into the picture. There isn't a huge market for undersized 2-guards with streaky jump shots. Gordon is most likely to be the top restricted free agent not to have his offer matched, but he's going to struggle to get a huge offer from anyone. Gordon may be better off taking the Bulls' one-year tender offer. 10. Nenad Krstic, Nets: Before his knee injury last season, Krstic looked like he'd be locked up by the Nets. Now the uncertainty over his health could hurt his value. Philadelphia is one team to watch for. Sixers GM Ed Stefanski was a fan while he was back in New Jersey. A sign-and-trade is another possibility for the Nets. Other notables: Louis Williams, Sixers; Craig Smith, Timberwolves; Ronny Turiaf, Lakers; Sasha Vujacic, Lakers; Daniel Gibson, Cavaliers; Ryan Gomes, Timberwolves; Robert Swift, Sonics; Carlos Delfino, Raptors; Carl Landry, Rockets; Kelenna Azubuike, Warriors; Delonte West, Cavs; David Harrison, Pacers; Walter Herrmann, Pistons; J.R. Smith, Nuggets; Tony Allen, Celtics; Dorell Wright, Heat; Salim Stoudamire, Hawks; Mickael Gelabale, Sonics; Randolph Morris, Knicks .</div> Who should we go after? Baron Davis? Elton Brand? Luol Deng? Josh Childress? Jose Calderon? Corey Magette?
I forgot to mention, the armchair GM in me wishes we go after 2008 restricted FA's Andre Igoudala (at least $60 million, 5 years), Josh Smith (55-60, 5 years) or Luol Deng (at least $55/5 years), but the realist in me knows that those guys are probably asking for well over what we can afford and that those teams all have cap/luxury tax room to match anyway. Basically it'd be like what happened with J-Rich, paying alot but then realizing we didn't have enough to build around. *edit: Haha, posted before I saw the list you pulled up. Well, obviously the free agent targets are not hard to pick, but look at the contracts they're likely to make. I'd have to think long and hard before really wanting to pursue any of them for cap's sake.
Alley Oop: Ricky Davis, Corey Maggette, and possibly Josh Childress if he can be freed. Stock up on scoring, rebounding, defending swingmen and I think we can do well if Ellis and Biedrins continue to improve in either playmaking or inside scoring. I would want Elton Brand the most, though. I don't think we have a shot at Deng or Calderon. If Nelly is shy about using real power forwards and centers, just get talented swingmen who can produce now and we could always trade one down the road. Zhone: I agree, we got to think about talent for the right price. I believe in good depth if we can't land any stars. It takes the pressure of the poor sucker that is making tons and is getting booed by our own fans. At least we can divide the money and get quality guys rather than one overpaid guy and a bunch of nbdls and rookies to fill in the gaps. Until a 20/10 guy or a 7 assist a game point guard lands in our roster, we should try to find scoring and solid defensive players. Swingmen are supposed to be a dime a dozen, but I sure didn't see much coming from Pietrus or Azu last year. If we can get some trusted and talented veterans who can play SG or SF, I think we'll do well and so will the developing PG's and PF/C's. I like the SF's who can play a true SG. We probably won't find that in Maggette because he's too much like Jrich in some ways, but Childress and Davis can probably be the best candidates for triple doubles. Childress, I heard was supposed to be a good passer.
Nice to see you back Zhone and Alley Oop. My 2 cents, as unrealistic as it is, is to go after Andre Iguodala. Hes the perfect fit at SG next to Monta- 6'6 great athlete, good scorer, great defender, cna handle and facilitate, rebound, etc. Monta can slide into the #1 option role and defend PGs, AI can be the sidekick, play more PG role and defend SGs. IMO Wright will be a stud in the future though and he'll probably the be #1 option down the line. I think Baron will probably be back though. Who else can sign him? No teams with cap space have a need at PG and besides no one would chance giving him a long term contract. We'll probably bring him back at a lower annual salary but over 3-4 years. Nellie is still here and still wants to win mind you.
I'm personally not too high on Ricky Davis, it really depends what role he'd accept though. Basically, the knock on him is that he's a bit of a lazy defender, and has always been a tad of a ballhog. I didn't watch him in Miami much last season, though. Maggette, on the other hand, has different strengths and weaknesses, but basically like you said, it's J-Rich again. Heck I could basically write the same scouting report on both of them (or you could probably copy and paste and say I was talking about Desmond Mason). He's got a reputation as a workaholic, very athletic, but the knock on him is that even with effort his defense isn't stellar and his passing is bad. Combine that with his ballhandling and decision making, which are mediocre/average. He's strong, a good rebounder, average from the perimeter but a decent slasher. Well I guess the one upgrade is he's a good free throw shooter and gets to the line alot. I haven't really watched Childress for a while, either. He's always had good passing instincts like you mentioned. Maybe I should find the Hawks fan blog or something?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jul 1 2008, 03:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nice to see you back Zhone and Alley Oop. My 2 cents, as unrealistic as it is, is to go after Andre Iguodala. Hes the perfect fit at SG next to Monta- 6'6 great athlete, good scorer, great defender, cna handle and facilitate, rebound, etc. Monta can slide into the #1 option role and defend PGs, AI can be the sidekick, play more PG role and defend SGs. IMO Wright will be a stud in the future though and he'll probably the be #1 option down the line. I think Baron will probably be back though. Who else can sign him? No teams with cap space have a need at PG and besides no one would chance giving him a long term contract. We'll probably bring him back at a lower annual salary but over 3-4 years. Nellie is still here and still wants to win mind you.</div> I've always been around lurking here and there, but of course the things that always get me yappin' are the draft and the free agency period. And then with something crazy like this happening, it's hard to get me to shut up. I'd love AI2, but like you noted, it's really really unrealistic. Maybe 1%. Maybe that's too high. Philly's angling to try to get another player as well (they're about $11 million under the cap) to sign along with Igoudala, and then will match any offer he gets, so they can try to get further into the playoffs. Basically he'd be ideal for our team (but he'd be ideal for any team really). He's the one player I can see getting the near-max deal in his situation. As far as Baron is concerned, I believe if Mullin gets a decent trade offer in the sign and trade, he will bite on it. Basically, it's up to the rest of the league at this point. And as for Childress, after doing a brief examination on the Hawks situation, it's actually possible that Childress can be pried, but it'd have to be for at least midlevel, or above ($7 million range per year). The reason we (or there's probably more than a few teams after him, so other teams) might be able to is basically because of Josh Smith, who may eventually demand more than they want to pay for 2 players that play the wing. Of course, any team can offer him the midlevel, so it comes down to whether Atlanta is cheap and where Childress wants to be. I think that if at all possible we should definitely at least try, in my quick scan, all Atlanta fans love him, so I don't see why we wouldn't. He'd be a perfect SJax replacement, even an upgrade in a few years since he's still improving, and could work alongside him in the interim.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jul 1 2008, 03:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nice to see you back Zhone and Alley Oop.</div> Hey there Run BJM -- Yeah, Iguodala would be awesome in the Nellie up-tempo style. A guy like that, or a Brand, or another true potential all-star -- that I could see happening more-so than the mid level. I just don't see Mullin wasting his hard-earned cap space on a so-so deal. Like Magette, for instance, turing into a JRich deal. We shouldn't forget -- Monta and Beans are our two stars right now. Both players could be all stars now that they have moved up on the possession-totem pole (at least unless baron comes back). They are the building blocks, so I don't think Mullin is in any panic to make a deal just because Baron opted out. He was probably ready for it, because he knows Baron's personality. I think Mullin has become one hell of a GM over the last few years, after his major blunders early on. He even talks more candidly now, taking a page out of Nellie's book. He said "sure, why not" about stuff like using the TE or trading a draft pick. He's been much more honest in interviews. Further, he has been a sniper so far with many decisions. I like the fact that he didn't use the TE just to use it. I think Mullin and his team know what they have in-house: I bet they are staking the future on Monta/Beans, with all of the potential talent to surround them and grow. I wouldn't be surprised if they even start the season with their current roster, sans Baron (much more likely they use their assets and leverage, though). Now is the time to "build" with Monta/Beans just emerging. even though we just made the playoffs. And it doesn't mean mediocrity for a few years, because those two can light up anybody, along with Jax, Harrington, and a supporting cast. I think Wright will emerge this year big time. Oh. And I almost forgot. Anthony Randolph could be better than any of them. This guy is a freak! He can handle it like a SG and throw all kinds of crazy-arm dunks, finger-rolls and hooks. And don't tell me he's too skinny. He's skinny like KG. Skinny like Tayshaun Prince. Skinny like Bosh. Randolph's body is NBA-ready for the type of game he plays. This is going to be a fun time for the Warriors.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Jul 1 2008, 02:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think if we want to capitalize early we find the guys who can play offense and defense and sneak in another guy that can score and pass. I think we're beyond the need to get character-only guys. So no Popeye Jones for us.</div> Maybe SJax's influence as a former teammate and guy-who-got-a-bad-rep could help out probably-soon-to-be-bought-out Jamaal Tinsley? (Maybe I have too many dashes?) It's far from ideal, but considering the options, maybe it's worth a risk. At worst it'll be a Troy Hudson experiment.
BTW it's good to see you Zhone. So I guess the best we can hope for is sign and trade. I think both Mags and Ricky D can be excellent defenders, but one would have to cut down on ticky tacky fouls and the other would have to be motivated to play help D. Ricky D was definitely a selfish and bad attitude player on the Cavs so his value couldn't be any lower at the time, but on Boston he was a fan favorite who provided energy off the bench and virtually did everything from scoring inside and out, going to the foul line, racking up assists, steals, and rebounds. He's pretty disruptive on man-to-man D since he's pretty quick and has long arms. I'm sure Pat Riley wouldn't want him if he couldn't D it up because his shooting can be streaky like Mike Finley or Jrich streaky. With Mags, you're right, he's selfish pretty much most of the time, but he does do good things and he's high energy like Ricky Davis. These two players would pretty much thrive in the uptempo open court game and wouldn't be afraid to attack the hoop rather than launch errant 3's. If we got these two for Baron Davis' salary, I'd be a happy fan. 3 point shooting might suffer a little, but Baron doesn't shoot 3's very well at all. I think Mags is good enough to step in or hit the baseline 3 while Ricky Davis can pretty much score from anywhere although he's a streak shooter. These guys' values could be low considering we could offer more for Mags than most teams and Ricky D is coming off a bad year. I think he could re-vitalize his career here and you wouldn't need to grow his skills. Sixth man would be his role and he could start if needed. We just might not find any point guard that can make others better, so I pray we get a 20ppg scorer who can pass, shoot, dribble, play D, hit free throws, etc. A team like Dallas had a lot of weapons and since we couldn't get CDR we need a polished scorer badly as well as depth since Pietrus/Azu are on their way out. If we re-signed Azu we'd have to see more from the guy. I just wasn't impressed. Tinsley would be an okay pickup if it doesn't cost us anything. I'm kind of a believer in Childress as a tall two guard. He's got the rebounding part down, hopefully all-around scoring and defensive strength can improve. He's a good prospect, though. Probably the best tall guard to come out of Stanford since Casey Jacobsen was a flop in the nba (but a big star in Europe apparently).
I'm for getting: 1. Elton Brand 2. Re-sign Baron to something like $48 M - 53 M for four years. That's reasonable even though 3 yrs for $40 M would be more reasonable. 3. Re-sign Monta, AB and Azubuike. 4. We got burned overpaying in the past, but then losing key players on your team and not being able to replace them would put you in the same boat. I was surprised that Baron opted out, but after thinking about it for a while, it sounded like Baron rather have a longer term and more financially secure contract even if it means less money per year. It's easy to say it's Baron being Baron, i.e. selfish, but it IS a bold move and something you and I may do if we are in the same boat and negotiating our salary. I mean are you going to be thinking about taking it for the team when everyone else has opted out of their situations into RFA or UFA? It's not like there is someone else who's happy to take one for the Warriors . I got to blame Cohan, Mullin and Rowell for that, but more on Cohan for creating an environment like that. Sure, they overpaid JRich, Murphy, MDJ and Foyle, but that was more a rookie GM mistake by Mullin, than being rewarded generously for good play and being a good employee. It just led to all of those guys being traded or bought out. The pendulum seems to have swung the other way for today's Warriors in order to correct those mistakes. I guess I'm being more conservative in this situation than others here, but to start thinking Monta at PG and not Baron is tough to do for me because we got to try and keep the team together first. That's step one in building a better working environment for the future. If we just have cap space and not a situation where free agents want to come here, it's not going to do any good.
I'm excited about his like most of you but I'm surprised no one would like to get Arenas. I think he's one of few PGs who can mesh well with Monta. While Monta can play 1 in spurts, he'll never be an NBA PG. Arenas can split the PG duty with him, is big enough to guard 2s, gives us an outside threat, and gives us a closer at the end of games. I think he'd be perfect! The other think I'd look at (though I don't know if it's possible) is a sign and trade with Atlanta for Smith and Acie Law. Smith would be a beast under Nelson and even though Law is the opposite of what I just said I was looking for in a PG to go with Monta, I really liked him at A&M and think he could develop into a pretty good guard, he just needs to develop a more reliable shot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jason voorhees @ Jul 1 2008, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm for getting: 1. Elton Brand 2. Re-sign Baron to something like $48 M - 53 M for four years. That's reasonable even though 3 yrs for $40 M would be more reasonable. 3. Re-sign Monta, AB and Azubuike. 4. We got burned overpaying in the past, but then losing key players on your team and not being able to replace them would put you in the same boat. I was surprised that Baron opted out, but after thinking about it for a while, it sounded like Baron rather have a longer term and more financially secure contract even if it means less money per year. It's easy to say it's Baron being Baron, i.e. selfish, but it IS a bold move and something you and I may do if we are in the same boat and negotiating our salary. I mean are you going to be thinking about taking it for the team when everyone else has opted out of their situations into RFA or UFA? It's not like there is someone else who's happy to take one for the Warriors . I got to blame Cohan, Mullin and Rowell for that, but more on Cohan for creating an environment like that. Sure, they overpaid JRich, Murphy, MDJ and Foyle, but that was more a rookie GM mistake by Mullin, than being rewarded generously for good play and being a good employee. It just led to all of those guys being traded or bought out. The pendulum seems to have swung the other way for today's Warriors in order to correct those mistakes. I guess I'm being more conservative in this situation than others here, but to start thinking Monta at PG and not Baron is tough to do for me because we got to try and keep the team together first. That's step one in building a better working environment for the future. If we just have cap space and not a situation where free agents want to come here, it's not going to do any good.</div> Hey JV, I gotta agree with you on this. Maybe re-signing Baron to the terms you stated above might be a little optimistic, but it would be the best and safest thing for the Warriors to do. Regardless of dollar amounts, having BD on the team THIS year is the surest way we'll have a better year than last year. It's exciting to have all these options open up for us, but it's also a lot of risk taking and uncertainty for the Warriors future. While we know that Baron is questionable in many areas of his game and body, he's given us 3 good years. Like JV says, this is a decision any one of us would have made if we were in his position. Money talks, and so does his agent, which is the one who advised him to opt out. Another thing to consider is that the Players Union probably has a lot to do with this decision. Opting out of a contract gives players the most leverage, whether or not it works out for them. Yes, I am disappointed that Baron opted out after all the talks of him not and in a way, I feel a bit betrayed. But, I'd like to see how this all pans out. If he signs with another team, he'll get booed like he's never been booed before
