Bears KR Hester holding out

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by Denny Crane, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://sportstwo.com/NFL/Story/NFL/2680068

    <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Bears KR Hester holding out</span>
    Wednesday, July 23, 2008 05:10 PM

    BOURBANNIS, Illinois (Ticker) -- Devin Hester, the dynamic kick and punt returner of the Chicago Bears, was a no-show on the first day of training camp Wednesday.

    Hester's decision not to report to training camp comes after the Bears settled contracts with perennial Pro Bowl middle linebacker Brian Urlacher and first-round pick Chris Williams in the last two days.

    Hester, who has been seeking a new contract the entire offseason, has two years remaining on the four-year, $2.86 million deal he signed after being selected in the 2006 draft. He is scheduled to make $445,000 this season and $530,000 in 2009.

    An argument can definitely be made that Hester already has outperformed his contract. The speedster has 11 return touchdowns in two seasons, good for fourth-most in league history. He also brought back a missed field goal 108 yards for a touchdown during his rookie season.

    Last season, Hester also had two touchdowns on offense when he made 20 catches for 299 yards. His 14 TDs the last two seasons is tops on the Bears. Hester is expected to see an increased role at wide receiver this season.
     
  2. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    That's pretty much out of the blue isn't it? Do something good for one guy (Urlacher) and it gives everyone else an opening to bitch. It's like having kids.
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    More drama from the Windy City.

    This is one of two guys on the team I wouldn't mess with. Give him just about anything he wants.
     
  4. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 23 2008, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is one of two guys on the team I wouldn't mess with. Give him just about anything he wants.</div>

    Well, Oakland, a 4-12 team last year, gave Hester what he wanted. What did Hester do with it?

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn41...12/ai_n21103280

    (Chicago won the game, but Oakland fearlessly kicked to Hester - something even better teams fear doing)

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Raiders coach Lane Kiffin made headlines from here to Chicago with his announcing Wednesday that Bears return specialist Devin Hester wouldn't be accorded special treatment in Sunday's game.

    Many people wondered if Kiffin was toying with Hester and Bears, mistaking Devin Hester for Jesse Hester, or just plain confident in his special teams' ability to rise to the challenge.

    Hester netted only 14 yards on six punt returns and 34 yards on two kickoff returns. That's eight touches for 48 yards for a player accustomed to an average of 19.6 yards on punt returns and 23.5 yards on kick returns this season.</div>

    I have to relish in my teams' small victories. Please excuse me.

    Should you pay the man? I don't think special teams players can command that much money. Those guys come and go a lot faster than the other positions. I don't think it's wise to tie up too much money in them. Urlacher, yes. Hester, no.
     
  5. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    The fact that they're debating whether to overpay so badly on a special teams player just shows how bad a job they've done in building their offense.
     
  6. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jul 24 2008, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The fact that they're debating whether to overpay so badly on a special teams player just shows how bad a job they've done in building their offense.</div>


    Yes and no.

    They could have had the Patriots offense last year and still be stuck in this situation.

    Field position is of premium value. Hester gives them that. Special team scores are hard to come by; Hester gives them that too.
     
  7. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    The problem here is establishing value for Hester. How much do you pay him?

    There really hasn't been anyone like him before (ie; this good of a returner but too raw to contribute elsewhere). Deion was an excellent returner; but he was an excellent CB too.

    Hester at this point is really only a returner. He has some offensive weaponry potential, but it hasn't been realized and it may never develop. I don't blame the Bears F.O. here. How do you go about paying someone like Hester?
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    20 catches while learning the WR position on a team with a godawful QB position is pretty impressive, IMO.

    Seems like Hester's singlehandedly won us several football games, and there's a premium for the W.

    On the entire Bears team, I can only think of two guys I'd consider franchise players; Urlacher and Hester.
     
  9. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    Again, how do you pay him? What type of deal does he deserve? Because what is getting him paid is his special teams ability; not his production as a WR. So what do you pay a KR/PR like Hester then?
     
  10. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Jul 24 2008, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jul 24 2008, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The fact that they're debating whether to overpay so badly on a special teams player just shows how bad a job they've done in building their offense.</div>


    Yes and no.

    They could have had the Patriots offense last year and still be stuck in this situation.

    Field position is of premium value. Hester gives them that. Special team scores are hard to come by; Hester gives them that too.
    </div>
    But he's such a significant part of that offense primarily because it performs so poorly on its own. That's the reason they have so little leverage in any contract negotiations. He can egg them on to a much higher figure than he'd probably get on the open market because they're so dependant on him.
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You can't peg him as only a KR/PR. He's a KR/PR/WR, who the team is going to count on more as a WR this season than last year. He's also the only player on offense or defense who's got the kind of star power and on-field performance to put butts in the seats.

    He makes $450K, which is an insultingly low figure, don't you think. How about a 10x increase? How about 10x plus making up for his low salary the past few seasons?

    At least that's a starting point. Let him make his case for why he's worth more.
     
  12. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Jul 24 2008, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, how do you pay him? What type of deal does he deserve? Because what is getting him paid is his special teams ability; not his production as a WR. So what do you pay a KR/PR like Hester then?</div>

    Also, the length of the contract is questionable. What is the average life expectancy of a KR/PR? Not long. They tend to have their best years at the front end of their careers. Losing a step means losing one's edge in their primary position.
     
  13. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jul 24 2008, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Jul 24 2008, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jul 24 2008, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The fact that they're debating whether to overpay so badly on a special teams player just shows how bad a job they've done in building their offense.</div>


    Yes and no.

    They could have had the Patriots offense last year and still be stuck in this situation.

    Field position is of premium value. Hester gives them that. Special team scores are hard to come by; Hester gives them that too.
    </div>
    But he's such a significant part of that offense primarily because it performs so poorly on its own. That's the reason they have so little leverage in any contract negotiations. He can egg them on to a much higher figure than he'd probably get on the open market because they're so dependant on him.
    </div>


    He probably would be better off in the open market than re-signing with the Bears. Many teams would throw large contract offers at him because he flips field position.
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jul 24 2008, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Jul 24 2008, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, how do you pay him? What type of deal does he deserve? Because what is getting him paid is his special teams ability; not his production as a WR. So what do you pay a KR/PR like Hester then?</div>

    Also, the length of the contract is questionable. What is the average life expectancy of a KR/PR? Not long. They tend to have their best years at the front end of their careers. Losing a step means losing one's edge in their primary position.
    </div>

    I think your claim is deceptive. Walter Payton started out returning kicks and punts, but they stopped doing it for fear he might end up like Gayle Sayers did (hurt). A lot of teams don't use their top caliber players on the special teams, as well.

    Remember Billy "White Shoes" Johnson? He played 7 or 8 years and the only thing that stopped him was injury. I pick him because he had similar success and effect on games as Hester.

    Deion is a pretty good example of what Hester's value is to the Bears, IMO.

    Thing is, I don't see anything other than actually aging and losing speed that keeps a pure PR/KR from being able to have as long a career as a RB or WR.
     
  15. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'>Deion is a pretty good example of what Hester's value is to the Bears, IMO.</div>
    I don't know about that. Deion was dominant at two positions, whereas Hester is dominant at one and is a complete unknown at the other. I don't think the WR experiment should impact contract negotiations too much. He just hasn't shown enough and there's so much uncertainty around that project. I think it'd make the most sense to just put in achievement clauses or something.
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I brought up Deion because he returned kicks and punts, was about the same in terms of being a threat to score each time he made a return, and his longevity as a returner.
     
  17. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 24 2008, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jul 24 2008, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Jul 24 2008, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, how do you pay him? What type of deal does he deserve? Because what is getting him paid is his special teams ability; not his production as a WR. So what do you pay a KR/PR like Hester then?</div>

    Also, the length of the contract is questionable. What is the average life expectancy of a KR/PR? Not long. They tend to have their best years at the front end of their careers. Losing a step means losing one's edge in their primary position.
    </div>

    I think your claim is deceptive. Walter Payton started out returning kicks and punts, but they stopped doing it for fear he might end up like Gayle Sayers did (hurt). A lot of teams don't use their top caliber players on the special teams, as well.

    Remember Billy "White Shoes" Johnson? He played 7 or 8 years and the only thing that stopped him was injury. I pick him because he had similar success and effect on games as Hester.

    Deion is a pretty good example of what Hester's value is to the Bears, IMO.

    Thing is, I don't see anything other than actually aging and losing speed that keeps a pure PR/KR from being able to have as long a career as a RB or WR.
    </div>

    Deion was playing CB the whole way through.

    I don't like the idea of tying up too much cap space into a return specialist. Good luck with that.
     
  18. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 24 2008, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jul 24 2008, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Jul 24 2008, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, how do you pay him? What type of deal does he deserve? Because what is getting him paid is his special teams ability; not his production as a WR. So what do you pay a KR/PR like Hester then?</div>

    Also, the length of the contract is questionable. What is the average life expectancy of a KR/PR? Not long. They tend to have their best years at the front end of their careers. Losing a step means losing one's edge in their primary position.
    </div>

    I think your claim is deceptive. Walter Payton started out returning kicks and punts, but they stopped doing it for fear he might end up like Gayle Sayers did (hurt). A lot of teams don't use their top caliber players on the special teams, as well.

    Remember Billy "White Shoes" Johnson? He played 7 or 8 years and the only thing that stopped him was injury. I pick him because he had similar success and effect on games as Hester.

    Deion is a pretty good example of what Hester's value is to the Bears, IMO.

    Thing is, I don't see anything other than actually aging and losing speed that keeps a pure PR/KR from being able to have as long a career as a RB or WR.
    </div>

    Since we are talking WR...

    Plenty of things can keep a pure PR/KR from having a long career as a WR. Route running, hands, blocking, reading coverages, tracking the ball in air, etc.

    Hester's had problems with several of those.

    Which is why its not a "sure" thing he has a good career as anything other than a KR/PR.

    Incentive escalators make a lot of sense here IMO
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/1072152,mar...i072408.article

    Hester runs from Bears ... And who can blame him?
    Mere pennies for Devin
    July 24, 2008

    BY JAY MARIOTTI Sun-Times Columnist

    BOURBONNAIS, Ill. — He didn’t posture and break off talks, as Tommie Harris did. He didn’t hiss and moan like a child and threaten to blow off training camp, as Brian Urlacher did. Even on the spring day when Robbie Gould — a terrific kicker but, still, a kicker — cashed in for a cool $15.5 million, Devin Hester didn’t whine publicly about the farcical injustice that his own contract had become.

    No, he simply caught the football, studied the defense, waited for the perfect opportunity, faded left, spun right, scud-missiled through the hole, raced to the end zone, did his Soulja Boy routine and then, upon seeing Ted Phillips and Jerry Angelo cheering and figuring he’d report to camp without his desired new deal, proceeded to stare down his bosses and flip them the bird.

    Nothing was remotely "ridiculous," as the eternal Jeff Joniak call goes, about Hester’s stand against Bears management Wednesday. When Halas Hall bows to Urlacher’s demands and gives him a chance to make $18 million in new money — with four years left on his original $57 million paper — in an offseason when Harris, Gould, Lance Briggs, Alex Brown and Desmond Clark also received new deals, well, we can’t blame him one bit for Hesterizing the Bears and holding out. Were their ears clogged when Hester’s agent, Eugene Parker, privately suggested in recent days that his client wouldn’t show up for camp?

    "He floated it. But I didn’t really take it serious," Angelo acknowledged on the practice field after the first session of a downcast camp.

    Sounds like another dumb special-teams coach who kicks the ball to Hester, only to be burned.

    "It’s time for me to take a stand," Hester told the Sun-Times’ Brad Biggs. "We’re going to stand by our decision to do this, and we feel like this can go down to whenever in the season or the end of the season. No matter what.

    "I would say 95 percent of Chicago fans are saying why not reward a player that has been here two years and contributed to the team in the ways I have."

    Ninety-five percent? Try 99.99999 — everyone but Angelo. I’d say he better start treating Hester with the respect he deserves and give him his money, or the punchless Bears might be the first team in NFL history to go an entire season without a touchdown. As if the offense isn’t challenged enough, it’s disturbing that center Olin Kreutz and the new running back, Kevin Jones, were placed on the dreaded "physically unable to perform" list. It’s a good thing both baseball teams are in first place. Sure you want to watch this football season, folks?

    "I feel like I should have been one of the top guys rewarded after the two seasons I had," Hester said. "Now, I’m the last guy."

    It serves the Bears right for neglecting their most important player. In the latest example of this one-half a general manager prioritizing defense over the trivial pursuit of, oh, scoring points, Angelo was foolish to think Hester would be satisfied with an all-time lowball deal. Did you say he’s making $445,000 this season? A mere $530,000 next year? That’s chump change in the market-value world of professional sports, an insult to his manhood. Unlike Urlacher, who has pocketed megamillions and had megamillions coming, Hester has yet to strike his first large payday. And if this is a case of discriminating against a mere "kick returner," I’d suggest Angelo do something else for a living. Because he hasn’t been watching the games and understanding Hester’s transcendent impact.

    Sorry to disappoint those who pray at the foot of the Urlacher Myth, but the Bears could have survived better this season without No. 54 than No. 23. Last I looked, Hester was the most dangerous weapon in his sport, with 11 punt and kickoff returns for touchdowns in his first two seasons — 13 if you include his kick return to open The Super Bowl That Never Happened and his 108-yard romp with a missed field-goal attempt. Last I looked, the Bears were committed to making him a productive wide receiver this year, if not the team’s No. 1 wideout threat. Last I looked, the Bears had no established running back, marginal receivers, a hodgepodge offensive line, the most ridiculous quarterbacking competition in humankind and, OK, a couple of decent tight ends. More than anything, they need Hester in camp to keep teaching him the nuances of the receiver position so the winner of the Kyle Orton-Rex Grossman taffy pull has a gamebreaker. If Hester stretches a defense, Matt Forte actually might gain more than 1.7 yards per carry, which will relieve the quarterback of pressure and maybe allow the Bears to move a few chains once or twice a game.

    Standing a few feet from Angelo was offensive coordinator Ron Turner, who is under siege to squeeze chicken salad from you-know-what. Already, a day into camp, he was without his savior. How would a prolonged holdout alter the grand plan? "I really haven’t seen anyone make the quick transition [to receiver], but I really haven’t seen anyone like Devin Hester, either," Turner said. "What I saw in minicamps and [organized team activities], he was on his way to doing it. He needs to be here, but he also needs to make sure he’s happy."

    That will be up to the Bears, who should have ripped up Hester’s rookie contract (four years, $2.88 million) long ago. Exacerbating the mess was a recent decision by NFL owners to opt out of their collective bargaining agreement with the players union. That means Hester might have to wait until after the 2011 season, not the 2009 season, before becoming a free agent. In an ideal world, it would motivate the Bears even more to ease his anxiety and make sure he’s focused on busting more long-distance scores. But this is what Halas Hall does when it has a player by the procedural stones: It squeezes him.

    "This was unexpected. We thought Devin was going to be here," Angelo said. "We’ve been negotiating with Devin for a while and are continually negotiating with him, as well. So I really don’t know why he isn’t here. There’s no closure. Usually when you say, ‘Hey, it’s over, take it or leave it, we’re out of money,’ you might get a reaction like that. But as you’re continuing in negotiations as we have been, it is surprising.

    "We did tell Devin we were going to address his situation, and we have. That’s where it is. The timing of it maybe wasn’t satisfactory to him, but again, those things just kind of run their course."

    As he runs away from Bourbonnais. "I don’t have any idea how long it will be. We’d like to get him out here as soon as possible," said coach Lovie Smith, who has spoken with Hester about the impasse. "He realizes how important this work is, especially this early work with him becoming a full-time receiver."

    Is it possible this team will have to score points via field goals and safeties only? As long as management is stubborn about its Devin from heaven, we’re about to find out. The Bears, as usual, have only themselves to blame.
     
  20. Vintage

    Vintage Defeating Communism...

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    One of the "top guys rewarded" but "now I am last."

    Its not done based on importance........it can be.
     

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