Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, Jun 21, 2021.
Thing is i don't think he's an All Star in the West. Simple as that.
Listening to Bill Simmons and they’re saying:
No need to rush
Morey should hold out
Simmons is a star and they should theoretically be able to get Fox or SGA or Murray + all young SA players
it’s a weird dichotomy where half the talking heads are thinking about his value as low and debating cj/brogdon/sexton and the other half are acting as if he’s this big star that shouldn’t be moved for anything less than fox.
I listened to Bill Simmons talk about it yesterday with two other guys and they all felt asking for SGA was too much.
De'Aaron Fox is young but he scores through penetration. He's a 32% three point shooter and a 71% free throw shooter. All of the young SA players don't make Philly better right away either. So I don't see any package besides SGA being better than getting CJ. Brogdon is the next best thing for that team but he's not the fit that CJ would be. All of that said because Neil is such a self assured dumbass, I don't know if CJ is even available for Ben Simmons.
The fact is that Morey gets another 19 days to act tough about this situation and then Ben Simmons further tanks his trade value by sitting out training camp and after that he'll reportedly take the hit to the bank account and sit out games. So if Morey can get his ego out of the way he'll make something happen in the next couple of weeks or so. If Neil is smart that deal will be for CJ and likely only would have to be for CJ and maybe a future pick that would mean taking the protection off this upcoming Chicago pick.
Is this the same Bill Simmons who started drinking from a flask when Danny Ainge pulled off one of the biggest fleecing's in NBA history and proceeded to complain about it the entire draft while getting visibly drunk? Yeah, GTFO Bill.
I think BonesJones hit it on the nose - people who love Simmons are in love with the player they think he can be, not the player he is.
Yeah Bill is another provocateur. It's not his job to say smart shit. It's his job to stir up controversy.
Nope. I'm in love with the player he is right now. The guy he could be? Well, on our team with Dame that's a Championship. The player he is puts us in the top 4 in the West and with a few lucky breaks WCF or even the Finals. Maybe ask us directly, instead of listening to other people's opinions?
I'm sure Ben can get his head straight. I'm quite sure Ben can become a 70% FT shooter. The former however is the only one that matters in my calculus on the CJ for Simmons trade. His shooting can stay where it is and he would still be a HUGE upgrade for the team. If he gets his FT% up and learns to shoot the 3? He'd be an MVP caliber player. CJ, might be an All-Star in the East, but likely never All-NBA, let alone MVP caliber. I also think Simmons learning to shoot is far, FAR more likely than CJ becoming a great defender.
Something else philly fans are worried about: if they trade for CJ, is their starting backcourt Cj and curry, who would be horrible defensively? CJ and Maxey, which would be slightly better but still bad? That’s one of the things that I think may trip up morey and make him not want CJ.
What he is is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league and a guy whose career AST% of 34.5 (after the worst year of his in this stat) is only 0.1 behind Dame's last year AST% (best of Dame's career). His career AST% is almost 4 points higher than Dame's career AST%. Heck, his last year's AST% (worst of his career, as we said) is higher than Dame's career AST%.
He is an elite talent and even if all you make of him is just a defender and secondary PG / distributer - you are very likely to improve this team considerably. (Heck, the team will finally have someone that can actually give some trouble when guarding Lebron, Kawahi and Durant - which it currently does not realistically have).
Now, when you think about his potential fit when he is not the primary PG but the secondary, can really be moved to his role of a roll-man with the best pick-and-roll handler in the league and better shooting around him than in Philly... yes, it could be a devastating combination if his role better fits his talents (which it does not in Philly).
Very well said and explained. I still don't understand why people don't see it. I feel like many people have to see something before they understand it. Very few are able to extrapolate as to what things would look like if they haven't seen it before. We really have no idea what Simmons is like outside of the Sixers context, but I think you can make some educated prognostications, which is exactly what you have done here. The Dame-Simmons pick and roll would be among the most devastating combos in the league in my opinion.
Curry is not starter quality. I'm not sure why he thinks he is. The guy is a Steve Kerr. He's not a point guard. He's not big enough or really talented enough to be a starting shooting guard. He worked with Simmons because he can guard point guards without needing to worry about handling the ball. He's a sixth man.
sorry, I think that's bullshit
I think people are counting on Simmons being the player he was for his first 300 NBA games rather than his last 5 games. And people are counting on Dame, as a leader and a teammate, to help Simmons over a hump. Billups is there too
I like the player that he is, but I'm also hopeful for the player that he could be.
Funny what you learn when you actually ask with curiosity first-hand sources, rather than rely on second-hand opinions.
Nope. Think he would be very good here with Dame as who he has been for most of his career and don't overreact to a couple of his most recent games. I think it is possible be even better with Dame just from a leadership, talent and style standpoint, but adding his elite defense and passing ability, versatility and ability to attack the basket are all things this team needs.
Looks like we have a near consensus among the Pro-Simmons faction and that consensus is that opinion was dead wrong.
lol Shaq and Chuck doing all they can to destroy Ben's trade value
I guess...I've just been beat down so often in the young player expectations game, I have a hard time getting too enthused about "potential"
I mean, look at the last 16 or 17 years of the results of waiting on potential...
Brandon Roy (sort of)
compounding the issue is seeing ex-blazers like Will Barton and Pat Connaughton reaching most of their potential on other teams. I don't know...maybe a 25% winning percentage betting on potential is about average. Seems low though. To be fair, some of those guys I counted as disappointment by the end of their first seasons as Blazers, like Telfaire, Babbitt, TRob, and Meyers. And my god the number of people suckered by Martell's supposed potential was legion
Fentress had some insight on his pod. Worth a listen.
Got any notes from it? I won't be able to listen until later.
Separate names with a comma.