Politics Bernie Sanders blames election loss on Kamala Harris listening to billionaires over working class

Don't you think that's because they don't want to be cut off from their corporate and billionaire donations?

And nothing about Bernie is socialist. His proposals are capitalist based (he even uses Nordic and Scandinavian countries as examples of his policy). All of the Nordic and Scandinavian countries will tell you their economies are based on capitalism. They just make sure they offer enough social support to prevent people from falling far enough to drag the system down the way we see here in the US.

The closest Bernie comes to socialism is wanting businesses to be co-ops or have strong unions.

 

And you're going to ignore that the DNC was literally being run by the campaign he lost to...

The DNC literally had to solicit corporate money and support to organize coalitions of other candidates against him to beat him.

It's incredible to me the mental gymnastics you use to try and ignore that.

 

You don't remember the push by the DNC and Dem establishmet to get Harris, Pete, and Warren (all who ran on Bernie's policies to gain popularity, BTW) to switch to supporting Biden against Bernie?

Biden was the most right wing candidate running and everyone else was only there because they supported Bernie's positions. But they all knelt to the Almighty Dollar when it mattered. And they were also rewarded with positions in the administration.

Bernie knew he needed a coalition. That's why he ran as a Dem rather than an independent.

But the problem is the money is so powerful that it's hard to do. Bernie is advocating for change. Problem is, that change will require politicians to give up money and will require them to do more work.

That's a tough sell. But it's what needs to happen.

 

Good point. I didn't really ever consider Gabbard, Bloomberg, or Klobuchar real threats to win. But they were probably close to as right wing as Biden.

Just like the DNC convinced everyone with superdelegates who the eventual winner would be...

Yeah, but I think he's a lone wolf because of his position. It's a hard position to take knowing you'll likely have to give up all of that money and "help" with research and writing bills, etc.

Bernie has no choice but to be a lone wolf. If nobody does that the DNC (or Dems in general) will never come around to what needs to happen. Somebody has to do it, so Bernie does it.

We really need the Dems to come around.

 

No. There was never any legitimate reason to count superdelegate votes beforehand. The superdelegates could have changed their votes all the way up until the end.

That was crooked from the start and everybody knew it was crooked. And that has cost the Democrats a lot of support. I guarantee you that Trump got some votes because of how crooked the Democratic primaries have been.

That is the fault of the Democrats. Bernie tried to help them (force them to?) fix it. And they still screwed it up with Harris.

There is no reason to look that crooked unless you're actually crooked. That's the only reason you would accept such an obviously crooked and undemocratic process.

Yes, with that clearly crooked and undemocratic process, Bernie lost.

This is why I'm advocating that they fix that shit.

Of course Bernie (the guy who would take money out of politics) is not going to be popular with the superdelegates who are unelected party officials who rely on the system staying as it is.

But to announce and list the superdelegates as though they were already set votes was horrible. Because the super delegates could have changed their votes if there was enough popular support. Just like they changed their votes for Obama in 2008.

But the DNC didn't have the same inertia behind Hillary in 2008 that they originally did in 2016.

 

No, the superdelegates were reported as locked in. They weren't listing polls from other states. Only the States superdelegates first, then the states who had completed their primaries.

If it were just polling with other state polling it wouldn't have mattered.

No it wasn't the media. That was information directly from the DNC displayed as the DNC wanted it displayed. The media just played along, because why wouldn't they? They were just trying to work with the DNC to get info to the public.

They mostly fixed that problem (DNC was forced by Bernie) so it wasn't as big of a deal in 2020. But it was still corrupt and turns voters off.

And the DNC Lawyers Argue that DNC Has the Right to Pick Candidates in Back Rooms

https://observer.com/2017/05/dnc-lawsuit-presidential-primaries-bernie-sanders-supporters/

They are straight up honest about it. They do not want a democratic process for the Dem primary. And it's not illegal. They actually do have the right to do it however they want.

And they want the DNC to pick whoever they want regardless of who the people want. According to their own lawyers. As they have proven in the last 3 primaries.

What I'm saying is that's costing Democrats a lot of support. It was probably instrumental in getting Trump elected.

 

They were reporting on polls but they were not listing those polls with superdelegate counts.

The superdelegate counts were listed in the same chart as they counted states who had already voted, as though they were final.

A lot of people who were asked (on the news) said that's why they voted for Hillary. They wanted to support the winner and they thought she already had locked up the superdelegates.

I'm shocked you don't remember. It was a huge deal. It's kind of hard to go back and find that information nearly a decade later...

But if you weren't paying attention at the time (or even if you were in denial about it) your current position makes a lot more sense to me.

"The attorneys representing the DNC have previously argued that Sanders supporters knew the primaries were rigged, therefore annulling any potential accountability the DNC may have. "

It was rigged. That's a bad look.

 

Except I didn't say they weren't polling superdelegates. I said they were displaying it the way DNC told them to.

Which was in the chart that was used for finalized state votes. Separate from state polls.

It looked like the superdelegate polls were finalized votes that couldn't be changed. And that directed a lot of votes to Hillary

 

Convenient to leave out what super delegates did to Bernie. The Republican party doesn't have the same system in that regard. Apples and oranges.

 

Republicans got rid of superdelegates in 2012 because they couldn't get any candidates people actually liked.

That gave us Trump. But only because Democrats leaned into superdelegates instead of letting the people pick who they want.

 

Yeah, I can see that I should have been more clear, good point. I stand corrected.

The important part was how it was displayed to look like the superdelegates were already locked in. And all media outlets displayed it the same way. That came from the DNC. Who we know was working directly with the media on Hillary's behalf, and even helping Hillary at the debates.

Again, I don't really blame the media here. They were just playing along to help the DNC do their thing and get the information the DNC wanted to their voters.

 

But Bernie isn't bitching about it. We're bitching that we want a better system that gives us a better candidate more consistently, rather than whoever the DNC decides has paid their dues.

We're using Bernie, Hillary, Biden and Harris as examples of the DNC doing a shitty job of giving the people the best candidates.