Politics Bernie Sanders blames election loss on Kamala Harris listening to billionaires over working class

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, May 30, 2025 at 5:47 AM.

  1. Sheldon Shape

    Sheldon Shape Well-Known Member

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    So
    So it sounds like the Republican primaries could be considered more democratic than the Democrat primaries.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2025 at 10:41 PM
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  2. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    If the media took orders from the DNC, then you absolutely should blame the media as well.

    I don't see any evidence they were doing anything other than calling the horserace as usual, but if you can provide some evidence for your claim I'm all ears.

    As for it being presented as locked in, well... I think there was plenty of coverage that explained how the system worked, and when the delegates actually voted.

    Did people pay attention to that? Of course not! But that's not the DNC's fault, or the media's fault.

    There's unfair horserace coverage in every race. They are always talking about how A has momentum and B is fading and the polls are bad for C in state D. And their coverage almost always has the effect of propping up the leader and minimizing the chances of the laggards.

    barfo
     
  3. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    In the primaries, sure. They had to or they would have never beaten any of the Dem candidates.
     
  4. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    For the six years that D's had superdelegates and R's didn't, 2012-2018, you have a point.

    barfo
     
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  5. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    The evidence is that it wasn't displayed that way any longer after 2016 when Bernie made the DNC change it before agreeing to support Hillary.

    I honestly don't think the media knew any better. The DNC sets up the process, creates the score cards, and the media just reports those things.

    If you expect them to be accountable for the information the DNC wants the voters to have I wouldn't be opposed. But I don't know how they're supposed to know the ins and outs of the DNC primaries better than the DNC.

    The DNC is supposed to be impartial though. And they very clearly have not been.
     
  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Sorry, I didn't mean Bernie was the one bitching about it :)

    Bernie, in my opinion, has handled his losses pretty gracefully.

    Harris, there's a definite point about the (lack of) process, although that was a rather unusual situation which hopefully will never occur again.

    Biden won the primaries in both 2020 and 2024. That wasn't the work of the party. That was the work of voters in the primaries.

    Hillary won the primaries in 2016. I am aware you think that was somehow arranged by the DNC, but in fact she got more votes.

    I'm all for a better system. Money plays far too large a role, causing good candidates to drop out before the voters get to know them - or never run at all.

    But we may find that our preferred candidates still don't win in a better system.

    barfo
     
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  7. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I think Biden got a lot of help from the DNC and the establishment in 2020 as well, but it wasn't nearly as crooked as 2016. And I've never claimed that Bernie got more votes than Hillary. That's never been in question.

    I don't necessarily care if my preferred candidate wins as long as they do the job well on behalf of the American people.

    I wasn't happy that the Blazers hired Terry Stotts, but I really appreciated him as a coach more than I thought I would. I'm probably one of his biggest supporters now.

    I just want an improved system that leads to better, more logical policy.
     
  8. Sheldon Shape

    Sheldon Shape Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. Superseding the people's will and getting everyone to drop out to support the Dementia-adled Biden is pretty bad too.
     
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  9. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    It would be if it happened that way, but in fact it didn't. Smart politicians don't run races they don't think they can win, and running against an incumbent president in the primaries is not a smart career move. No one ran besides Dean Phillips because no one with future prospects wanted to run. If a politician does want to run for president the party can't stop them.

    barfo
     
  10. Sheldon Shape

    Sheldon Shape Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about 2020. Bernie was 48 hours away from locking the nomination until Obama got everyone to drop out to back Biden who was in 7th place or so.

    That happened.
     
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  11. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Nah.

    barfo
     
  12. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Good point. I forgot about those details. It was pretty bad...

    *Edit* That's right, Kamala and Pete dropped out, but Warren stayed in to be the spoiler after Obama spoke with them and a bunch of new money started spreading around. Obama spoke with the SC Reverend who had been withholding his support from Biden, who then flip-flopped and publicly supported Biden right before the primary.

    HUGE Dem push to maintain the status quo, even though Sanders was leading and had raised more money than anybody else.

    Horrible. You just knew that was going to lead to dark days... And here we are...
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2025 at 9:16 AM
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  13. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    So the candidates that dropped out did so because of the conspiracy, and the candidates that stayed in did so because of the conspiracy.
    That sure has all the hallmarks of a conspiracy... theory.

    What you describe as a conspiracy is actually just humans doing normal human stuff.
    Is it really nefarious that Obama, who has some experience and interest in politics, would talk to candidates?
    Is it really nefarious that they might consider his advice?

    Is it really nefarious that people try to convince other people to support their favorite candidate?

    Do you really think presidential candidates - people with huge egos - have no agency whatsoever and just do whatever the "DNC" tells them to do?

    barfo
     
  14. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Did I say it was nefarious? No. I said it protected the status quo. Which gave us lesser candidates and removed superior candidates.

    I think they all knew they weren't going to beat Bernie. They probably weren't going to beat Biden. And the DNC, with Obama's help, offered them the guarantee of money and power the likes of which Sanders didn't have the power to offer yet.

    The same way Google, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, or Facebook buys up the competition to protect themselves.

    It's not a conspiracy theory. It's not nefarious. But it definitely hurts innovation as well as the consumer.

    The same way the DNC (establishment Democrats) has been hurting progress and the voter.
     
  15. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    What money and power did they get? Warren went back to the senate and Bernie could have promised the others jobs just as easily as Biden could, if that's what actually happened.

    Ok, if it's not nefarious, why complain about it for years? Not everyone gets to be president.

    barfo
     
  16. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Biden’s virtually uncontested nomination was pretty much the exact process as Reagan had for his second term. That netted us another dementia ridden geezer president. It’s almost as if that’s a bad plan.
     
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  17. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I already answered that in the post you're responding to. But let's try it this way...

    Do you like the way things have turned out? I don't. That's why I'm complaining about the DNC and corporate Dems.

    I want positive changes. Republicans aren't going to change anything (certainly not for the better). Dems want things to go back to how they were. How they were is why we have Trump as president now.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2025 at 12:49 PM
  18. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    But you are complaining about the wrong thing, in my opinion. The DNC and corporate Dems aren't the source of the problem, they are merely actors within the political system we have. If you want a party to reform, you have to force them to reform - Bernie didn't quite have the voter support to make that happen; Trump did.

    barfo
     
  19. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    On the other hand, it's pretty easy to argue that Ted Kennedy challenging Jimmy Carter led to Reagan being president in the first place.

    barfo
     
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  20. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem. The DNC (corporate Dems) were in Bernie's way.

    The RNC wasn't in Trump's way. They had changed the rules to get out of the way.

    I'm advocating for the DNC to get the hell out of the way (to be "impartial" and "evenhanded", as their charter says) and for the people to hold their feet to the fire if they don't.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2025 at 4:14 PM

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