<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>KG is a FAR better rebounder and defender, there is no comparison there. Dirk is a much better jumpshooter, but KG is more athletic and can do more down low. KG is a lot more of a point center than Dirk, and has better ballhandling skills. He has had seasons of over 5APG, and one season of over 6APG, so you can't say Dirk is the passer KG is.</div>You act like KG is leaps and bounds a better rebounder than Dirk. I disagree. You state their averages but look at some of the players KG has around. You state he doesn't have the players/management surrounding him like Dirk has which in more ways than one skew Dirk's number in a negative fashion. If you put Dirk in KG's situation, I bet his numbers balloon. So no I don't believe KG is the FAR better rebounder. Dirk is a underrated rebounder.Defense I have no argument. But KG isn't stopping anyone downlow, so it's not saying much. But it is better than Dirk's, so no argument.I think neither KG or Dirk's passing are much to talk about. They get double teams, pass out of them. Neither of them are great passers and much to write home about.On topic, I would have said Larry Bird. But even then, there are differences in both games. Like I said in another topic, comparisons are usually redundant as players become their own and later on were comparing up and comers to them. This is happening with Dirk Nowitzki as we see with Bargnani. Pretty much why I don't care for comparisons.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WizGM @ Mar 3 2007, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If u look at Dirk in the early years him and Bargnani look alot of like with Bargnani being better.They have very simular games and as Bargs develops more you'll see.</div>Bargnani can't rebound. I see him more as a Peja or a Toni Kukoc.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Mar 3 2007, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You act like KG is leaps and bounds a better rebounder than Dirk. I disagree. You state their averages but look at some of the players KG has around. You state he doesn't have the players/management surrounding him like Dirk has which in more ways than one skew Dirk's number in a negative fashion. If you put Dirk in KG's situation, I bet his numbers balloon. So no I don't believe KG is the FAR better rebounder. Dirk is a underrated rebounder.Defense I have no argument. But KG isn't stopping anyone downlow, so it's not saying much. But it is better than Dirk's, so no argument.I think neither KG or Dirk's passing are much to talk about. They get double teams, pass out of them. Neither of them are great passers and much to write home about.</div>Over his whole career he has been a far better rebounder. Forget the averages...he is more agressive, athletic and really goes after it. Dirk may be underrated if you think, but KG has been arguably the best rebounder in the league this whole decade.KG is an intimidator, and has done a very good job on the likes of Amare Stoudemire this year. He is much more of a presence than Dirk.KG has always been a main facilitator for his team, not just passes out of the psot when nothing is there. He has averaged an upwards of 6APG. He is the best passing big man in the league. In terms of talent, KG is arguably a top 2-3 talent in the league. But would I take him on my team over Dirk? I don't know about that, cosndiering Dirk is a proven leader and clutch player. But they are nothing alike and not comparable at all. 2 totally different players. TD vs Dirk is a much more suitable arguement since TD has actually won in his career.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Over his whole career he has been a far better rebounder. Forget the averages</div>So why did you bring up averages if you want us to forget them?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>In terms of talent, KG is arguably a top 2-3 talent in the league. But would I take him on my team over Dirk?</div>Who are you talking to?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>But they are nothing alike and not comparable at all. 2 totally different players. TD vs Dirk is a much more suitable arguement since TD has actually won in his career.</div>Right how about you bring that up to a mavsfan quote since I'm not in that discussion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saint Baller @ Mar 3 2007, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Bargnani also entered the league at age 21 while Dirk entered the league at 18...Dirk's stats when he was 2121.8 ppg/9.2 rpg/1.2 bpg/1 spg/2.1 apgBargnani's stats at age 2111.1 ppg/3.8 rpg/0.8 bpg/0.4 spg/0.8 apgSeems like your statement is false my friend...</div>Even though that is true, I think that if you give the guy a couple years in the pros to develope, I think this could be a pretty fair comparison. Although Bargnani is coming in to the league 3 years older, he wa still playing Euro ball just like Dirk did. Its not like there is that much of an advantage there. If you give Bargnani a couple years to develope, I think we could see a decent similarity. He can obviously shoot from the outside, but he is going to have to learn to take the ball of the dribble better, use his height for his advantage on smaller defenders better, and improve his ball handeling a little bit.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 3 2007, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Even though that is true, I think that if you give the guy a couple years in the pros to develope, I think this could be a pretty fair comparison. Although Bargnani is coming in to the league 3 years older, he wa still playing Euro ball just like Dirk did. Its not like there is that much of an advantage there. If you give Bargnani a couple years to develope, I think we could see a decent similarity. He can obviously shoot from the outside, but he is going to have to learn to take the ball of the dribble better, use his height for his advantage on smaller defenders better, and improve his ball handeling a little bit.</div>Bargnani still reminds me more of a Peja or Kukoc because he isn't as good at getting rebounds. I think he will get better at steals more than rebounding and play most of his career on the wing.
Yeah watching the highlights pre-draft he was Pejaesque which isn't a bad thing but it isn't Dirk.I don't understand what your saying Ballerman, he played more euro ball than Dirk and came into the league 3 years later.. so?I just dont ever see him becoming the dominant player Dirk is...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Mar 3 2007, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So why did you bring up averages if you want us to forget them?</div>I brought them up, but I also wanted to show why I feel KG is better beyond the averages.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Who are you talking to?Right how about you bring that up to a mavsfan quote since I'm not in that discussion.</div>I wasn't directing either thing at you, I was just speaking in general to brign a close to the KG/Dirk thing.
We could all go on and on and on about the merits of Dirk and KG. I think once Dirk gets his ring, and it WILL happen, lol, I think we can safely put him above KG, but only slightly. Right now I'd have to put them at even, but that's only because KG is a freak, and he does some things better than Dirk, while Dirk is better in other ways.When all is said and done I think Dirk will be the greater player, and will be better in retrospect than KG.It'd be like comparing Bird to Malone or Barkley. Malone is considered the best PF ever...but never won a thing, like I think KG won't, unless he gets traded to a team where he doesn't' have to deal with the pressure of being "the man".Where as Dirk welcomes the pressure, and will take over a game if he needs too.Just my opinion on it...but I don't think Nitro dissing on Dirk, or any of us dissing on KG will change anyones minds.They are about even in the league right now, and until one wins a ring, neither will seperate themselves that much.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 4 2007, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Malone is considered the best PF ever</div>I don't know if this is your opinion or someone else but I consider Duncan the great pf of all time. Malone's stats were inflated with Stockton as the pure point guard.
I thought I said he's considered the best PF ever...not my personal words, but I've heard that and read that alot.He's definately up there...so is TD, Barkley, and the like.
I hate how everyone say Dirk is a good rebounder, Dirk is not a good rebounder, I keep saying that if he wants to be MVP he has to average 10+ REB. 24/9 and 24/8 is not cutting it for MVP. I do think in the future we will see Bargnani a modified Dirk. He has a nice stroke already, shoots like him, has the same tenacity on offense, Bargnani just has to improve with experience.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Apr 26 2007, 01:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I hate how everyone say Dirk is a good rebounder, Dirk is not a good rebounder, I keep saying that if he wants to be MVP he has to average 10+ REB. 24/9 and 24/8 is not cutting it for MVP.</div> Dirk has consistantly averaged 9 rebounds a game the last 6 seasons....Honestly, I could care less if he averaged one more rebound a game....it's not that big of a deal. The Mavericks have 3 other players that probably rebound 6 a game (Howard, Diop, Dampier)...
Yeah, BCB is correct on the notion that the Mavericks are a great rebounding team. Both Damp and Howard about 7 a game while Diop averages a little more than 5. Also I'd like to go more in depth into Dirk's rebounding. 1st off, the 8.9 rebounds for the season is misleading. The first 5 months of the season Dirk averaged a nearly 9.5 rebounds a game. In the last month of the season he averaged only about 5 a game. The reasoning? Avery rested players and so of course Dirk's minutes went down. He only averaged 33 minutes a game the final month. In most regular season games, Dirk is in the 36 to 40 range. Now Dirk isnt going to put up rebounding numbers with the likes of Kevin Garnett, Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, but those guys are great rebounders who dont have good rebounders around them. Dirk is still a good rebounder compared to the common power foward though, he's in the Top Ten easily.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Where as Dirk welcomes the pressure, and will take over a game if he needs too.</div>Ironically, the reason that I think Dirk doesn't deserve MVP is because he doesn't welcome the pressure and won't take over a game when he has to. One way he reminds me of KG is that he's got top 5 value in the league but is not a leader, is not clutch, and is quite the opposite much of the time (as witnessed in this series, last year's heat series, the spurs series a few years ago....)
^He was pretty damn clutch in the playoffs last year up until the Finals. And I think you need to watch more Mavs game before saying he doesn't like taking the pressure in the 4th quarter. There have been countless times where he has taken the team on his back in the 2nd half and 4th to lead us to victory. Of course there are games where he has come up short but no one is perfect and I think he's done his share of having good games when it counts.
I watched some Mavericks games last year early in the playoffs and he suprised me with his 4th quarter 'give me the ball' mindset. But late in the finals he drifted from being agressive to becoming a shooter and it hurt the Mav's.
I agree with Rok, you can't say things about dirk just from what happened in the finals last year. They have only played the Warriors twice in the playoffs, and it has been their first 2 playoff games. Just watch some more games of Dirk's over the last couple of years and later on in the playoffs and you will find out that he is pretty clutch.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Apr 26 2007, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^He was pretty damn clutch in the playoffs last year up until the Finals. And I think you need to watch more Mavs game before saying he doesn't like taking the pressure in the 4th quarter. There have been countless times where he has taken the team on his back in the 2nd half and 4th to lead us to victory. Of course there are games where he has come up short but no one is perfect and I think he's done his share of having good games when it counts.</div>having an off-game here or there is acceptable.Having an off-series in the finals when you're the favorite that nobody even thinks it is a possibility you'll lose is not. Especially when you've had other such off-series' in the past.
